If your driveshaft is vibrating it can cause other issues!

[elwesso]

As some of you may know I took my Q into a shop today to get my driveshaft balanced and the rear seal fixed so it doesnt leak.....

When i got back there today to pick up the car, they told me that due to it vibrating it ate up the seal and really bunged up the tail shaft of the transmission.. Its supposed to be smooth and I could feel roughness and a groove.....

The bottom line is, if the driveshaft is vibrating its causing other problems besides a seat massage... So I get to pay extra labor to have the keyway smoothed out a little so the seal will fit right, and then to have the driveshaft balanced..

If it vibrates AT ALL and it truely is the driveshaft, get it fixed before you start screwing things up... I go to pick up the car around lunch time (already a major PITA to get the car down there ) tomorrow and HOPE it seals right otherwise I may have a perma leak..... Only way to fix that would be a new transmission I guess...

Major bummer, major PITA...

[Jeff Williams]

How did you know it was the driveshaft?

If you don't mind, what did you pay for the re-balance?

[elwesso]

i know its the driveshaft because:

1. The transmission mount is new2. Rotors are not warped3. I felt it in the seat of my pants as opposed thru the steering wheel which could mean tire balancing or rotors4. Tires have been balanced not long ago5. It would vibrate when the car was in gear and rear wheels off the ground6. Diff bushings have been replaced

Really it was about the only thing it could be

I took the driveshaft out and the U joints werent so good

Ill get back to you tomorrow about the total, but im guessing to get it all said and done (including the retarted grinding in the tail shaft) is gonna be around 220

[Jeff Williams]

Thanks. I will try putting the rear-end on jack stands, and running the car.

I had the tires re-balanced twice, and there is still a small vibration, like it is coming from the driveshaft, or transmission mount. The tires are new, but the rotors have not been turned in a while. I do feel it in the wheel a bit, so it could be the rotors.

Great post, and thanks for the help.

[elwesso]

Remember that the steering wheel is connected to everything.. I can still feel it in the wheel, but it will be worse in the seat of the pants... It feels like the entire floorpan is vibrating...

Id try the transmission mount first, but since you gotta take the DS down anyway may just do it all at once....

Balancing should be anywhere from 50-70

[FarFetched]

Make sure they align all the marks (if they are still there) or you will end up with vibes regadless of repair!I am surpised they told you tail shaft got chewed up something in that respect! Have them check bushing that supports tail shaft as well as center bearing support and bearing itself!Good luck!I know how it feels to drive with vibes up you butt

[elwesso]

Indeed... The balance marks are still there so it should be good... If it at least doesnt leak anymore and only has slight vibration ill be happy....

Like I said the transmission mount has been replaced.....

They didnt just tell me, i went in there and felt it.. it definitely feels like somtehing has been chewing in there......

[PoorManQ45]

When i got back there today to pick up the car, they told me that due to it vibrating it ate up the seal and really bunged up the tail shaft of the transmission.. Its supposed to be smooth and I could feel roughness and a groove.....

That's a given Wes.

A vibrating drive shaft will chew through bearings faster then jesda chews through a plate of noodles

[FarFetched]

That something (bushing most likely) chewed up tailshaft could alone cause vibes, just like a bad bearing could!

[FarFetched]

It is almost impossible to eliminate all the vibes unless you run O degree angles w/o any movement( side-to-side twist, wrap, etc.) at each side of d-saft! You can only compensate and ballance prop shaft components!I have a friend (business relations) at driveline place. I have learned a few things form him!I think I need to look at U-joints on my Old Lady!I am getting some weird feeling around 65-70MPH.

[maxnix]

Too bad, Wes, but thanks for sharing.

I assume it vibrated at all speeds?

[elwesso]

Well i got the car back and it is worse than it was before......

This will be driveshaft maneuver no 3 on this car... In order heres how it was

1. When i first got the car it vibrated pretty bad at like 70-80 and then seemed to smooth out2. I put in the combo driveshaft from my old Q and it vibrated a little at 40 but was very smooth at 70-80 (little vibration but i could live with it)3. I took it down there, and now its back its where we were at step one... Ironically the driveshaft that they took out had better U joints then we started with...

So i get to drive back down to indy next monday to get this done AGAIN.. fortunately they were being nice enough to do it again without any fuss.....

[PoorManQ45]

It sounds like it is NOT the driveshaft. This can be noted by the problem coming back after you replaced the driveshaft.

Hmm, have you thought about your rear end being bad? Would that cause vibrations at certain speeds/RPMs?

You may have ripped you level 10 transmission apart if the driveshaft is indeed unballanced

[elwesso]

I think ti si because its worse than when i gave it to them... they only messed with the driveshaft!!

[Jeff Williams]

I think ti si because its worse than when i gave it to them... they only messed with the driveshaft!!

Did you find out what the problem is?

[elwesso]

This is becoming a very depressing experience for me...

I took it back to the driveshaft place at 9 am today (they dont run on appointments!!!!) and they didnt even get to my car by 430.. at least they agreed to make it right... Hopefully theyll take their time and do it right because Im very sick of driving (1 hour each way) to indy and then have to have someone bring me back and all that junk......

So lets review what Ive been through trying to get a semi vibraiton free driveshaft...

1. Replaced driveshaft out of old Q45.. Made everything 50% better, probably 75% vibration free2. When i replaced the driveshaft the tailshaft seal started leaking. I figure ill take it to a driveshaft place, have them balance the shaft, and then replace the seal.. pay an extra $75 to have it balanced3. Take it there on Thursday. They dont get to my car until late, they need it overnight4. Pick it up friday, vibraiton is worse. 5. I call them up and they say bring it in monday and we'll get it fixed up monday6. I take it in there today, they dont even get to my car and they only worked on 3 cars today 7. I have to take it back there sometime this week and just assume its going to take all night.. Drop it off one evening and then pick it up the next evening.....

Worst yet, they siad the tailshaft was seriously fubar-ed, due to the prolonged vibrations (not sure how Fred took this kind of vibration so long) and probably due to the running on nitrous, its possible that the tailshaft is stripped...

Whatever the case is something is really screwed up with the transmission because when i hit the gas from a stop i hear a grinding noise like something is slipping..... The transmission feels real strong (shifts great, well kinda) and stuff like that... Wouldnt really be that big of a deal if I hadnt paid so much for the car to begin with.....

This car is very bittersweet to me... Its causing me hell and then some but i love it to death... In retrospect i probably wouldnt have bought it but im glad i have it (correction, glad im screwed with it)...

[elwesso]

but in answer to your question Jeff, I know its the driveshaft thats causing it.

[FarFetched]

Ok!Did you do anyting with centerbearing or support?If yo have vibes at 30-40 MPH that is torque twist (rear sust subframe bushings are going bye-bye)In case of high speed vibes, either u-joints out of phase/dented-unballanced d-saft. I hope people who worked on your d-shaft know what the proper 2-3 piece d-shaft phase is !I have defeated many d-shaft vibes by measuring angles at transmission tail shaft and differential pinion and making sure they are cancelled via proper u-joint angles. In case of 2 piece d-shaft you have to take centerbearing in consideration and measure angles at that location. If total compound angle is graeter than .5 degree, you will have low speed (sometimes high speed) vibes!One more thing, low speed vibes are more dangerous that hi speed vibes. Don't forget torque is the greatest when you accelerate to 30-40 MPH. Ever seen torque wrap on trucks with rear leaf springs, next time look at Toyota Tacoma rear suspension under acceleration!You can ballance d-shaft until you have no more money, it won't help if angles aren't correct at each end of d-shaft!Cheers!

[maxnix]

1. Replaced driveshaft out of old Q45.. Made everything 50% better, probably 75% vibration free...

Does this mean you replaced one used driveshaft with another used driveshaft? Don't quite follow that logic.

I hope your choice of technicians can cure your problems. Good luck!
Modified by maxnix at 2:48 PM 4/7/2005

[elwesso]

Unfortunately the lack of money trumps logic... Yes id love ot buy a new driveshaft but i just cant do it...

The driveshaft in the old Q was vibration free as well.....

Will be tkaing it back down there later this week.. and never go to that place again... just reinforces everything inmy mind never to trust anyone but the simplest tasks (like oil changes)

[FarFetched]

Go to a well known Drivetrain shop with d-shaft ballancer. Good luck!

[elwesso]

Well thats where ive been going, at least ive thought.....

ill post more details when it gets done.....

[PoorManQ45]

Unfortunately the lack of money trumps logic... Yes id love ot buy a new driveshaft but i just cant do it...

Bah, that's no excuse. Just get a piece of thick walled aluminum pipe and put the proper fittings on the end

[blu240hch]

I feel your pain elwesso, I'm in the process of coming the grim conclusion that I might be having driveshaft issues with my 240. I found out that I had a wasted rear wheel bearing about the same my car started to vibrate, so I happened to have a spare wheel bearing and hub laying around, with suposedly 60k mi on it , anyway needless to say it still blown. In the process of replacing the bearing/hub assembly I noticed that my sub-frame bushings are bleeding all over the place, so now i'm thinking well maybe the vibrations coming from the subframe... so I get on the trusty old interweb and order anew wheel bearing and SPL bushing collars, all to be installed this weekend (crosses fingers). Then I come across your post and you get me thinking so I grab my jack and put the rear end up, get in and start accelerating through third gear until I start feeling the vibration, which begins to occur at 30mph, the rear wheel that has the bad bearing doesnt shake or appear to be causing the vibration so know I'm thinking hey maybe it's worse than I thought and my stomachs turning! You got one thing right though, it is a bittersweet relationship we have with our cars at times.

So know I'm hoping that this statement is true for me;

If yo have vibes at 30-40 MPH that is torque twist (rear sust subframe bushings are going bye-bye)

Anyway good luck!B

[91QAZ]

Ouch Wes, sorry to hear the DS is still giving you fits. When I was your age I wasted much time and money keeping a string of old VWs and V8 muscle cars on the road. At one point, I gave up and got a mid-80's 200SX (don't even remember the year - I've tried to forget). Figured I'd try reliability and economy for a while. Didn't last long - I couldn't take it. 3 months later I was in a mustang. And as I sit here I realize that I guess I'm still doing the same thing with the Q...

[FarFetched]

Quote »In the process of replacing the bearing/hub assembly I noticed that my sub-frame bushings are bleeding all over the place, so now i'm thinking well maybe the vibrations coming from the subframe...[/quote]That's exactly what it is. Bad subframe bushings will cause vibes under accel!Cheers!

[elwesso]

I thoroughly checked my subframe bushings (seeing how its common issue) and they seem to be intact...

[FarFetched]

Also check diff bushings for deformation/cracking etc.

[elwesso]

Fortunately my diff bushings were replaced not too long ago (~2 years)

Took the car down this evening and will have it back... Hope for the best!!!

[blu240hch]

That's exactly what it is. Bad subframe bushings will cause vibes under accel!Cheers!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, will give an update after the weekend... parts should be arriving friday.

B