Cold climate lube and cooling suggestions?

[tubesguy2]

Picked up my new (to me) '91 Q a couple of weekends ago. The car lived its life previously in Florida and Louisiana. Sadly, it now has to endure life in Madison, Wisconsin.

A couple of questions: First, the most recent owner (a NICO forums lurker) tried Mobil 1, 5W-30, and had some engine noise. Lifters, tappets, I've forgotten (already) what he mentioned. He switched to Valvoline Durablend, 10W-40, and had used it since. I'm going to toss in a can of BG Quick Clean and get the oil changed tomorrow. Any oil suggestions from cold weather natives? I confess, I've not yet had the oil pressure checked, as Dennis has suggested in the past.

Second, an aftermarket oil cooler has been installed, and the system completely bypasses any stock oil routing. Should I be concerned about cold weather (down to, say, -5 F) temps and proper ATF temps?

Very nice car for 147k miles. Lots of the standard stuff done already (guides, newer used transmission, MAF) and I've just gotten a bunch of suspension parts from Joe. Plus some very nice wheels and tires from falkdesigns. - Pat


Modified by tubesguy2 at 2:22 PM 2/10/2005

[elwesso]

Pat....

I *really* like mobil 1 0w40 for winter, really cant beat it at all!!!! Really easy starts and its a good oil, 30 weights for M1 is known to be thin...

Quick clean is a good idea, but be sure to warm up the engine fully (drive on highway for 10 miles at least), and then pour in and idle for 15 mins

Wheres the transmission cooler installed.. in between the rad and condensor is the best place for really cold temps...

[tubesguy2]

Thanks Wes - Had a lot of trouble trying to find 0W-40 locally, but ultimately did. Never did find Mobil 1 ATF for the new steering rack, however, so I'm going with Amsoil for that. Hope to have the car back Wednesday, assuming no more obvious suspension bits need replacing. - Pat

[maxnix]

Check your local Mobil Lubricants Distributor.

[Q45tech]

"Really easy starts and its a good oil, 30 weights for M1 is known to be thin...'Who says? It must meet the SAE viscosity standard at 212F that all 30 weight oils do. Within 5%...............it could be considered a 10w28.5 but that is about it.

In theory the lower friction of more uniform synthetic molecules would lower the operating temperature a few degrees so I expect the 28.5 is thicker than a 30w under the exact same load since the temperature of the 30w will be higher.

[Jesda]

Who says? It must meet the SAE viscosity standard at 212F that all 30 weight oils do. Within 5%...............it could be considered a 10w28.5 but that is about it.

I think it was either you or Fred. I also found that it causes a nasty clattering sound during the first 15 seconds of starting after sitting a couple days.

http://nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=78943 ... ad?id=5098

[elwesso]

Yeah Fred was telling me that... noramlly a 30 weight is good for the Q but a 40 weight is better in mobil 1...

Not trying to say your wrong dennis, but Fred knows a lot about oil, and whatever is good enough for him, is certainly good enough for me...

[PoorManQ45]

Bah.. Go with the cheapest stuff you can find. I suggest Supertech Synthetic 5w-30 it cost ~$2.50~$3 a qt.

ANd for those of you that will argue that the quality is lower, all I can say is PROVE IT in REAL life, not in the lab

[AZhitman]

Bah.. Go with the cheapest stuff you can find. I suggest Supertech Synthetic 5w-30 it cost ~$2.50~$3 a qt.

ANd for those of you that will argue that the quality is lower, all I can say is PROVE IT in REAL life, not in the lab

Silence..... please.... now.

We have a Master's level chemist with some 20 years in the field on board here. I'd trust his assessment and evaluation of lab tests of oils WAY before anyone's ignorant anecdotal experience in "real life".

Test it in a lab, you can control the conditions and afford the outcome.

Test it in "real life" and you can wind up with a car like Wes's.

Until you can discuss a matter of such importance on a molecular level, with a full and intimate knowledge of base stocks, additives and properties throughout heat ranges, no more mindless drivel.

You run the cheap stuff, I'll spend an extra $8 every oil change.

[PoorManQ45]

I understand that, but you must understand that sometimes lab results differ from real world results.

Now, if you would have said, "In theory one is better then the other", I would have accepted that, but you didn't. In theory, a bumble shouldn't be able to fly, but it does. In theory, a humming bird shouldn't be able to fly, but it does. Engineers sometimes get caught up in the fantasy worl that is made up of theories. I don't mean any disrespect by this.

If GM, Ford, Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc.. use MOTER OIl and not syntheic oil, then that's the best there is. Remember that they spend millions/billions on research/engineering, so I don't think that they'd skimp on the oil.

[AZhitman]

Remember that they spend millions/billions on research/engineering, so I don't think that they'd skimp on the oil.

Sure they would.

There's a reason a Cavalier comes with the cheapest dino oils in the crankcase and a Vette comes with Mobil 1.

It's called Capitalism, and the sooner that POS Cavalier wears out (beyond the warranty), the better.

Look at what the factory fill is for Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Jag, and several other high-end marques.

[AZhitman]

Now, if you would have said, "In theory one is better then the other", I would have accepted that, but you didn't.

Engineers sometimes get caught up in the fantasy worl that is made up of theories.

Theories are worthless (proven or disproven) once you have sufficient empirical data.

By the way, following your logic, companies spend "millions on engineering" but their engineers are "living in fantasy worlds"? *sigh*

[PoorManQ45]

But look at what they actually recommend. Very few auto makers recommend synthetic fluids.

[elwesso]

ok youve proven your point...

The MFG will do what they can to make sure the car is running fine throughout the warranty.. Over 60k, probably not many benefits of running synthetic..... The car will still be running fine... but if you started at say 10-30k with synthetic, assuming all other factors are the same (which they wont be), id dare say you get another 50k out of the engine.. maybe, maybe not...

BTW, when people say "benefits" of running synthetic, thats a very nebulous term... what can you expect from an oil.....?? I dont expect much from mine, i dont expect 20hp... however, if you go and read dennis AND freds posts about this subject, youll see running m1 syn can lower oil temps by 10F, same with transmission fluid...

I feel like Ive said this a million times..... If you change your oil every 90 days, the difference between syn and a good (better than your cheap stuff) dino is probably gonna be very minimal... I am not a wealthy person by any stretch of the imagination, but I bought a Q45 (2 to be exact) knowing that I was going to maintain it as such... Away with you, go put your cheap stuff in a beater honda!!!!!

GOSH.. FREAKIN IDIOTS

[tubesguy2]

Well, one very obvious benefit of synthetics, and one I've found helpful living in the frozen tundra area of the country, is the dramatically lower pour point of a full synth oil compared to dino oil. If I recall, it's something like -65F compared to -20F. That actually makes a difference in cold start situations around here once or twice a year. - Pat

[maxnix]

Well, one very obvious benefit of synthetics, and one I've found helpful living in the frozen tundra area of the country, is the dramatically lower pour point of a full synth oil compared to dino oil. If I recall, it's something like -65F compared to -20F. That actually makes a difference in cold start situations around here once or twice a year. - Pat

Bingo! Actually, everytime you start your engine, synthetic lubrication minimizes the wear. Starting is where most wear occurs in a properly operating engine.

[elwesso]

Bingo! Actually, everytime you start your engine, synthetic lubrication minimizes the wear. Starting is where most wear occurs in a properly operating engine.

Indeed... I read a post a while back ago that using a regular oil, the same amount of wear is done on a cold startup as 50 highway miles.....

[texasoil]

As one with both 'lab' and 'real world' experience--in formulating lubes, manufacturing them and providing techservice assistance for over 30 years, been workin gon high end engines and POS stuff for over 45 years--listen hear all ye who wish to hear more

In extreme cold (or extreme hot) services, appropriate viscosity 'synthetic' will work better. 0w30 synthetic in real cold, 15w50 in real hot. For al the rest of us, major premium brand (Havoline, Valvoline, Shell, Mobil ) regular 10w30 is just about perfect for the Q45 engine. Regular changes(3000 miles or less unless all highway miles) , good oil and air filters, and good gasoline are all essential to long ,long unworn life. GASOLINE detergency is the single most overlooked factor in engine wear today.

[elwesso]

GASOLINE detergency is the single most overlooked factor in engine wear today.

True... but unfortunately its not something we have a lot of control over....?

[AZhitman]

Which is why you get cozy with someone who will ship you a case of BG44K annually!

Once a month (every 4th tank) for the past 3+ years. Whoever gets Quella someday is getting a damn clean fuel system....

[SFBayQ45]

Which is why you get cozy with someone who will ship you a case of BG44K annually!

Once a month (every 4th tank) for the past 3+ years. Whoever gets Quella someday is getting a damn clean fuel system....

I've read a post in the past from whom I believe is Dennis, and I remembered him saying that too much of a good thing isn't necessarily good...especially when it comes to the BG44K stuff. I think he mentioned something to the affect that it eats into the gaskets and seals? Did I get my facts straight?

[maxnix]

Only post of Dennis' I remember like that was his speculation that aggressive chemical flushing of hte cooling system might contribute to earlier sacrifical anode failure and aging of rubber hoses.