Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub > Nissan Online Mechanic > 1992 240 SX Convertible - Auto Trans. stays in 3rd gear. (Printable Version) Click here to print this topic.
Post Title: 92 240 SX Convertible - Auto Trans. stays in 3rd gear. Posted by:09quickly at 3:51 PM 10/23/2005 I have been reading up on some of the other automatic transmission issues addressed by NISTECH folks, hoping it would correct my problem as well, but so far, no luck. I have been reading the thread posted by some of you guys and NISTECH regarding intermittent shifts between 1st and 2nd gear (It sounds like I need 240Rocks as my neighbor). I tried all of the electrical sensor disconnects suggested in the thread, but still no luck. My specific problem is that the trans shifter goes into R, D and 2, but will not go into 1. Also, the trans will not upshift or downshift, only stays in third gear. I disconnected, cleaned, left disconnected, and re-connected all of the sensors mentioned in the other thread (Revolutions Sensor, Speed Sensor -found by accident, as well as several others located in the general area of the fuse box.) Still no luck. Everything is a little cleaner, but still no shifting. My next thought is to drop the pan and address solenoids and the valve body, but I'm a remove and replace kind of guy, very little diagnostic know how. If someone is familiar with this issue, please steer me in the right direction. 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:19 AM 10/24/2005 In this case your going to have to diagnose to figure out what needs to be replaced. Your trans is in 3rd gear failsafe. Meaning it is seeing something from a sensor incorrect so it has no idea what gear to put the trans in. There was a proceedure posted in that thread I believe that tells you how to put the trans into diagnostic mode with the OD button. When it goes into that mode start counting the flashes of the light. This wil give you a code. Once you have that code post back and I will look it up in my manual.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 7:54 AM 10/24/2005 Thanks, I remember the other thread saying something about the o/d light flashing 8 times. Mine flashes so fast I can hardly count them, but I am going to estimate it is around 15 times. I will check it later tonight or tomorrow and let you know. 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 3:32 PM 10/24/2005 no when it flashes when your turn the key on that is not a code it is mearly to let you know there is a code and something is not reading right. You need to activate it by pushing the OD button so many times while holding the break pedal and keeping your tongue at just the right angle,, you get the idea.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:18 PM 10/24/2005 Gotcha - When I double checked the manual, it said 8 seconds of flashing, not 8 flashes. That is about what it is doing now. I will wait until tomorrow evening when I can steal my wife's garage space to look at it more thoroughly. Also, the manual I have access to (91-94 Nissan 240 SX on CD) refers to a "CONSULT" tester. Am I headed in that direction? Thanks for the guidance. 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:CDE at 1:11 AM 10/25/2005 I remember that OD test.
As nistech stated it's a little bit fussy and quite a few steps to get the right things in the right place at the right time....
I would search for you but haven't got the time right now....between school, work and fiance I have no life :|
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 6:02 AM 10/25/2005
Yea your going in the right direction but do the "without consult" test.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 7:03 PM 10/26/2005 Sorry about the delay, but work has been getting in the way of my private life and it is really starting to piss me off. I touched base with CDE from the other transmission related thread, but he could not recall the proper sequence for the o/d button diagnosis because his speedo did not work. Nissan was as useless as tits on bull, saying there is no way to diagnose it without their computer. My next attempt will be an e-mail to 240rocks, he seemed very knowledgeable about these things. Minor detail, if I find out how to conduct the self diagnosis with the o/d button sequence , where will the the code "read out"? 09quickly.
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:NISTECH at 8:25 PM 10/26/2005 Ok AT self diagnostics comin at ya. Start by holding your tongue so it hangs out the left side of your mouth, raise your right eyebrow. lift your left leg off the seat.
1)start vehicle and warm it to operating temp. 2) turn the key off and press the OD button to on position make sure shifter is in park. 3)Turn the key on engine not running make sure the od light comes on for 2 seconds. If it does go to #4 if not post back. 4) turn the key off and shift the trans to D. use the lock release if neccesary. Set the OD switch to off. 5) turn the key on and wait at least 2 seconds. then set OD switch to on. 6) Shift to 1 7) set overdrive switch to off. 8) press accelerator to floor then release it completly 9) set overdrive switch to on.
This will start the OD light to flash your codes. The light will have one long illumination flash then start flashing short blips. Watch the flashes carfully cause one or more of them will stay on slightly longer then the others. There are 10 flashes total. If say it goes like this, first the start signal long flash then blip..blip..blink.blip..blip..blip..blip..blip..blip..blip. notice how the thrid was a little longer. The would be a 3 which corrospondes to TPS short or open.
When you do it there are 10 posibilities plus a no failure which would be all blips of the light. post back what you have and I can reffrence my manual to see what it is.
Reffrence is a 1992 240sx service manual.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 4:03 AM 10/27/2005
Thanks, I might actually get a chance to do this tonight.09quickly
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:09quickly at 8:01 AM 10/30/2005 AT Diagnostic test finally attempted on Sunday 10/30-Thanks for the info. I drove around the block a few times in 3rd gear to get it to operating temperature. Steps 1 through 5 went like a dream, O/D light came on for 2 seconds as described, in Step #3 and Step #5, then went into rapid flashing for 8 seconds. Step #6 is a no-go. Shifter will not go down into 1, will only go as far as 2, then binds. Pulling on shifter with force puts the red indicator in 1, but it will not physically move any rods into the desired position. The rest of the sequence could not be completed in 2, that's where I stopped. 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 10:49 AM 10/30/2005 You gotta figure out whats causeing it to bind. put the car in park and crawl underneath and disconnect the rod from the trans. Then move the lever on the trans by hand [ make sure the ebrake is set dont want the car rolling over you when you pull it out of park] conte the clicks it makes at the trans. it should make 5 clicks frompark position. park itself is not counted. If it stops at 4 and wont make a fifth you have a problem with the inhibit switch or the valve is jamming in the trans.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 1:38 PM 11/5/2005 Finally able to crawl under the car on Sat. 11/05. Cotter pin holding the shift linkage to the shift lever on theside of the trans. was binding on a small, bolt-on shield that appears to route some wiring from the engine to the trans. Anyway, I removed the linkage arm and tightened the cotter pin so that it is more snug against the lever and the linkage. I now have 5 positions in the lever as indicated. Went through the diagnostics you provided, and as in your example, 3rd light flash after the long illuminated flash at the start was longer than rest. Did the sequence three times to be sure. When you get a chance to post back, please tell me where the part, connector, whatever it may be, is located. Thanks millions for your help so far,even though the whole car will need much more work, I am looking forward to it. this has been interesting as hell (I guess because it hasn't been real expensive yet) 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 6:42 AM 11/6/2005 That indicates your TPS is disconnected or shorted. Now the ECM also looks at the TPS so you need to pull codes from the ECM to see if it is also storing a code for tps since they both use the same circuit. If it doesnt this will indicate the harness between the ECU and AT control unit has a problem. If the ECM DOES have a code stored for it then your problem lies with the TPS. The tps is the gray connector hanging off the TPS not the black one plugged directly into it.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 7:35 PM 11/6/2005 I assume by TPS you mean the throttle position sensor, and by ECM, you mean the ECCU (I read my manual every now and again). More questions. Is the TPS located at the business end of the air intake tube, with the hose clamps, on end of intake manifold at front of engine? Is the ECM located behind the kick panel on the passenger side below the dash? If so, I found that as well. How to read codes? 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 8:07 PM 11/6/2005 Yep on both. Goto http://www.240sx.org and scroll down the FAQ list till your get to engine code reading for your appropriate engine.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:08 AM 11/7/2005 10-4. I went to the "search" icon and entered all of the possibles for "TPS" and "ECM", but did not try the FAQ icon. Other issues: This car needs many little things, hopefully nothing that I can't do myself (with your guidance). I recently bought this car for $900.00, so I don't know alot of its' history. Anyway, other items that need to be tackled:
1) Oil pan gasket - In following the instructions for oil pan gasket replacement in the manual, it says to drop the front suspension cross member to get access to the pan. The motor mounts are on this cross member, not on the frame. Do I need to support the engine in some fashion before dropping this cross member on my head? Also, while I have the pan off, will the crankshaft seals be easily accessed to replace them at the same time as well? (Lying on my back with the car on jack stands, front only). Also, the oil pan took a hit somewhere along the line and is sporting a decent dent on the front (more than likely the source of my leak). I want to replace it, but cannot find anyone who lists a replacement pan (OEM). Any suggestions?
2) Remote gas door and trunk release lever - I pulled the driver's seat out and gained access to this lever. The cable had come off of the lever mechanism completely. I can not figure out, without a picture, how to re-attach the cable. Can you hook a brother up?
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:20 AM 11/8/2005
What are your engine codes if any?
If possible just bang the pan back out and flatten the matting surface with the engine so its even. There is no gasket for nissan oil pans just use silicone sealer. I know aftermarket places sell gaskets but the factory uses no gasket.
I have the same yr and model 240 if I get a chance I will snap a shot for ya.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 1:29 PM 11/8/2005
I found the codes for the ECM where you suggested, and I may get a chance to look at it tonight after work, 9:00 p.m. or so (EST). What about my issue regarding support for the engine when I drop the front suspension assembly to access the oil pan? Do I need to figure out a way to suspend the engine, via an engine hoist or some other rig? Or will the engine stay in place? It doesn't look too inviting underneath there as I start loosening crossmembers. 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:27 PM 11/8/2005 Eww yea sorry about that. Yes you need to either get an engine support cross bar that stratles the engine bay and rests on the strut tower area near the fender. A hook would be attached to the eye at the front of the engine. The alternative is to use a cherry picker to hold the engine up while doin the pan.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:19 PM 11/8/2005 O.K. codes - 3 long and 3 short=Exhaust gas O2 sensor circuit. Part II with the engine on. Check Engine light came on almost once per second when test first started, slowed to one long light every ten seconds. What up? Does this point to the A/T control unit since it did not reflect the code for the TPS (43)? 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 8:22 PM 11/8/2005 No other codes came up? after it flashed the egr code 3 times?
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:26 PM 11/8/2005 Nope, 3 long, 3 short, I watched that sequence about a dozen times to be sure. Same thing at the engine warning light. During the engine running portion, the engine light came on for long and short flashes, but they were long, long, long, short, short, long, short (no apparent sequence). 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 8:32 PM 11/8/2005 Yea that is just mixture/O2 readings. This isnt good then. You are going to have to start probing wires at the TCM to check for voltages and such from the tps. Since the ECM doesnt see the TPS failure it means your problem is likely between the ECM and TCM. I will need to pull some diagrams for the system and post them as well as where to probe the connector for checks.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:54 PM 11/8/2005 Sounds ugly. I guess I will have to break down and by a voltage test meter. 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 6:20 AM 11/9/2005 Give me some time to do comparisons of my service manual for my 92 against my 93-94 manual I have on disc. I will be posting the 93-94 manual info because my 92 manual is a book and not feasable to load to the comp. I have to cross reffrence wires to see if they are the same and adjust if neccesary in the 93 information to match a 92.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 6:36 AM 11/9/2005 That sounds an awful lot like work. I hate when that happens. Thanks for your patience and diligence, they will most likely go unrewarded, as in most cases. Post back when you can, I am going to concentrate on my oil pan gasket issue while you hit the books. 09quickly
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:09quickly at 8:34 PM 11/9/2005 Re-did the diagnosis tonight, but all I got was 55's. I guess I dumped the old codes last night. I thought starting and re-starting a few times would show the old mal-function codes if they are still valid? I know I didn't fix anything! 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 6:21 AM 11/10/2005 After you erase the codes they will not come back untill it sees the failure occur, EGR failure does not show till it is driven under part throttle operation for awhile.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:NISTECH at 6:54 AM 11/10/2005 Ok in this diagram you will be testing the 3 terminals indicated in the drawing. wire colors at the terminals are as follows. If the wire color doesnt match as your looking at it perhaps you are looking at the connector upside down. here's the colors match and then test . If they dont match do not assume it is a fluke you are looking at it wrong I garuntee it. 31= light green with red tracer stripe 34= white with blue tracer stripe 35= black
on terminal 31 you should see a constant 5 volts on terminal 35 you should see a constant voltage reading of less then .2 volts on terminal 34 you should see about .5volts at idle and a varying voltage when you apply the throttle to above 4 volts at wide open throttle.
This test is done with the key in the on position but the car NOT running.Also the A/T control unit will be plugged in your will be back probing the terminals.
The A/T control unit is locate on the passenger kick panel area next to your heater box. May need to remove the glove box assembly to gain access to it.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 9:48 AM 11/13/2005
Outside now attempting voltage tests. Some questions:
Is the A/T control module the brown receptacle located behind the glove box? If so, I found it, disconnected it, and now have easier access to the ECU.
When accessing the pins to test, where do I place the black lead for a ground?
I have found the light green wire with the red tracer, it is the only one I have been able to locate. Pin 35 should be a black wire with silver dots, or completely black? I have been able to locate only one white wire with a blue tracer, but it is nowhere near the other wires, it is more in the middle of the blue receptacle.
More rookie questions:
I have disconnected the ECU to gain access to the pins, but if I'm testing the ECU, this makes no sense. Do I re-attach the ECU and gain access to the pins some other way? Take the back off the ECU?
Also, I drove the car around the block yesterday, barely. Started fine, idled fine, ran like it was firing on two cylinders when I gave it gas in drive and reverse. It would not go up a slight incline in my driveway. After warm-up, smoothed out for a short distance, then ran like Sh*t again. I live on a hill, and people walking their dogs werer going up hill faster than I was. Did another self-diagnosis of the ECU again when I got back to the garage and .....55's!!!!! What up?! 09quickly
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:NISTECH at 10:19 AM 11/13/2005
Quote, originally posted by 09quickly »
Outside now attempting voltage tests. Some questions:
Is the A/T control module the brown receptacle located behind the glove box? If so, I found it, disconnected it, and now have easier access to the ECU.
When accessing the pins to test, where do I place the black lead for a ground?
I have found the light green wire with the red tracer, it is the only one I have been able to locate. Pin 35 should be a black wire with silver dots, or completely black? I have been able to locate only one white wire with a blue tracer, but it is nowhere near the other wires, it is more in the middle of the blue receptacle.
More rookie questions:
I have disconnected the ECU to gain access to the pins, but if I'm testing the ECU, this makes no sense. Do I re-attach the ECU and gain access to the pins some other way? Take the back off the ECU?
Also, I drove the car around the block yesterday, barely. Started fine, idled fine, ran like it was firing on two cylinders when I gave it gas in drive and reverse. It would not go up a slight incline in my driveway. After warm-up, smoothed out for a short distance, then ran like Sh*t again. I live on a hill, and people walking their dogs werer going up hill faster than I was. Did another self-diagnosis of the ECU again when I got back to the garage and .....55's!!!!! What up?! 09quickly
I am thinking you got the wrong connector or something. However your tests will be with it plugged in you will be testing it in operation. You back probe the terminals with a paperclip or t pin. You may have to pop off a sheild that covers all the wires on the connector. Here is an exact picture of the A/T control unit. I do not know off hand what color the connector is. But it should have a 10mm bolt holding it into the control unit.
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:09quickly at 12:08 PM 11/13/2005
Okay - Results of tests - Does not look pretty. I loosened and removed the A/T box, found the green-red, white-blue, and black wires (I thought these wires were on the ECU, that's why I was scratching my head). The brown electrical plug I was talking about earlier is next to the blower motor, and wires from it go to the ECU. Anyway,
Red/Green wire on A/T connector - .394 to 1.3 volts AC, fluctuated quite a bit, then settled at 1.3. White/Blue wire - .321 volts to 1.17 volts AC, settled at 1.17. Black wire - 1.158 volts AC.
I forgot if cars are measured in Direct or Alternating current , so I did both. 0 volts DC on all except the black wire, started at 2.7, settled at 0.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 1:47 PM 11/13/2005
voltages are measured with DC. You should have the key in the run position when doing this test. If you are not seeing 5 volts on the light green/red wire in those conditions you need to go directly to the tps and find that same color wire and check for 5 volts. Right now this is your primary wire to check. Sounds as if you have a good ground but you are not recieving the 5 volts in the line. You are testing with the connector plugged into the A/T control unit right?
Post Title: Posted by:09quickly at 3:28 PM 11/13/2005 Yes, I'm on the A/T module now, at first I wasn't, and that was part of my confusion. Key was "on", and I used your suggestion about the paper clip. Naturally, the wires I needed access to were the hardest to reach, but I think I had th paper clip in the correct slot for each wire. I will redo the test just to be sure. Where is the TPS located? Should I be concerned about my other "0" readings? 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 6:46 PM 11/13/2005 no the other reading is expected to be zero if that one is. That 5 volts is cut down by the resistance in the TPS , the tps sends what voltage remains back to the ecm then to the TCM on that wire your seeing 0 on. You need to figure out why that 5 volts reffrence is not there. The ECM supplies that 5 volts. It goes both to the tcm and ECM. Since the ECM is not throwing a code for TPS I am thinking you have the voltage at the TPS but you need to test first to find out. The tps is attached to the throttle body. There is a grey connector strapped to a hose right next to it. There should be 3 wires in that connector 2 of them will be the same color as the ones at the TCM. Find that same color wire and check for voltage.
Post Title: Posted by:babowc at 8:55 PM 11/13/2005 didnt read up on what nistech and others had to say.. but my brother had the same problem on his 2002 elantra. it was a sensor that was fried. it'd work sometimes and sometimes not though.. he replaced it, its driving fine now. hope this could help
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 7:03 PM 11/14/2005 Redid the A/T module test tonight. Still 0's for DC voltage. Found the TPS connector on the intake tube, and the three wires you mentioned. Light green w/red tracer, black, and white. 0 voltage at green/red and black wires, key on, engine not running. 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:00 PM 11/15/2005 Odd your ECM should be throwing a code as well. You need to get to the ECM and check for power at that same wire at the ECM terminal 37.if your looking at the connector while its plugged in it is the 3rd slot from the right in the top row. The top row is the side with the rasied section where the bolt is. That wire will be the same color there as at the TCM and TPS. See if you have the 5 volt reffrence there. If not I am going to have to find another 5volt reffrence for you to tap into to see if you can get this circuit live to see if the rest of the circuit is ok.
If you found that circuit does not have a 5 volt reffrence at the ECM then that means the ECM has failed internally and is not supplying that voltage. That is when we are going to try and find an alternate 5 volt reffrence to tap into to get that circuit going. If It works you should be able to run with it like that.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 7:16 PM 11/15/2005
I will double check everything again next chance I get, I hope that I have been getting good contact with the paper clip when I jam it into the backs of the wire receptacles, it usually feels pretty secure, I just can't see a metal to metal connection. I will get another opportunity on Thursday, hopefully. I have to go to Atlanta tomorrow. 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:20 PM 11/15/2005 At the tps unplug it and test the wire from the terminal side to assure you are getting good contact with it. Your key must be on. That wire should have voltage weather its plugged in or not when the key is on. Do that first just to be sure there isnt power on that wire.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 12:06 PM 11/19/2005 Okay, here we go - I re-did the tests you walked me through earlier. It is amazing what a multimeter will tell you when used properly. I stopped using the paperclip for a lead, and I started using the black lead on a good ground point. Go figure. Key on:
Terminal 31- light green with red tracer - 5.12 volts DC Terminal 34-white with blue tracer -.324 volts DC (idling) Terminal 35 - black -.005 - .002 sporadic volts DC
ECU - Light green with red tracer - 5.12 volts DC
TPS -plugged in, key on. 0 volts at rear of wire leads.
receptacle leading to TPS plug - plug leading to green/red .354 to .400 volts DC both other leads - .250 -.350 volts DC
Idles rough when it will run.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 2:17 PM 11/19/2005
Ok so your saying you have 0volts on the lg/r tracer wire at the tps?? all your other readings at the TCM look ok with the exception of the reading on terminal 34. It could stand to be slightly higher at idle. regardless tap into terminal 34 again , with engine off key on press the accelerator pedal slowly to the floor and back up. What does the voltage on terminal 34 do?
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 6:03 PM 11/19/2005 Key on, white/blue on the TCU:
.327 volts, no accelerator
Climbs to 2.8 volts when accelerator depressed, also heard a buzzing sound from the engine as the accelerator went down slowly, stopped when the accelerator was fully depressed. 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 6:15 PM 11/19/2005
you have got a connection issue somewhere. That voltage should have climbed to over 4 volts when the pedal was fully depressed. how is the terminals in the connector at the tps? also recheck that same color wire at the TPS when you do the sweep. Check the 5volt reffrence at the TPS too. Make sure its there.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 6:55 PM 11/19/2005 TPS - 5.2 volts at the metal lead for the green/red in the receptacle. TCU - white/blue - still the same after cleaning receptacle, checking for secure fit. ECU - white/blue - .329 volts, same as the tcu before depressing accelerator.
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:09quickly at 7:01 PM 11/19/2005 P.S. - battery is starting to die, I have it hooked to a charger at full charge when I run all of these tests. 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:21 AM 11/20/2005 Ok your next test is to be done at the signal wire on the TPS. Your conducting the same test you did at the white with blue wire at the TCM and ECM. See what the voltage is at rest and then slowly crank your throttle drum around and watch that voltage. Does it show the same voltage you saw at the TCM when you rotate it? Does it too stop at around 2.8 volts? If it does you need a TPS. If it doesnt and it climbs to over 4 volts you are going to have to trace down the circuit back to the ECM and see if there is a connection problem in the circuit somewhere. Before condeming the TPS also check its ground circuit with the key on and see if you have any voltage on that wire. You will be doing both those checks with the TPS plugged in and the key on.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:31 AM 11/20/2005 Its gonna be the white wire on the TPS for signal and the black wire for ground.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 10:19 AM 11/20/2005 Cleaned the connections on the TPS, had to go back to the paperclip to try to get a good connection.
Black wire - .0011 volts
White wire - starts at .3 range, flirts with 4.0, but is sporadic, hangs mostly with the 3.4 - 3.6 range, nothing steady. 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 1:55 PM 11/20/2005
does the black wire change when you move the throttle. The voltage you have on it at rest is really good. Means you have a good connection to ground. if it pretty much stays in that range when you rotate the throttle then that proves your ground is good. The white wire needs to steadily go to over 4 volts as you slowly crank the throttle drum around , if it cant the tps is junk. Just make sure you have GOOD contact with the back of the pin when testing it. I dont use a paper clip for testing at work, I got a box of Tpins from staples since they can get in there much easier. Most people dont have those handy so I tell them to use the paper clip method. Just FYI incase you do got some.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 5:19 PM 11/20/2005 I re-did the test from earlier today. The black wire stays at a steady .0011 volts as the trottle mechanism is rotated around. The white wire is sporadic, .257 - .436 volts at rest, and then an uneven, sporadic climb to 4.00 volts as the throttle mechanism is rotated. Rarely going over 4.00, usually topping out there then dropping into the mid-3's. Again, no steady, constant readings on the white wire. 09quickly.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:40 PM 11/20/2005 Replace the tps and set it for .45volts on the white wire. You should be good to go after that.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:21 PM 11/20/2005 I will order a TPS from the autoparts warehouse tomorrow online. With the holiday this week and travel plans, I may not get a chance to install it until Saturday. I will definitely let you know how it turns out. Many thanks again for your patience and expertise. I could not have gotten this far without you. 09quickly
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:09quickly at 3:09 PM 11/26/2005 Installed the new TPS today, the old one had some severely corroded contacts on it when I finally got it off. Naturally, I ran into some issues along the way:
New TPS is on, spring loaded cam is in place with a little bit of tension. 5.2 volts on new connection with key on, not running. I assume adjusting the TPS is accomplished by moving it in place and adjusting the spring load on the cam inside.
Will not run, starts with difficulty, must hold accelerator at 2000 rpm or more to get it to run smoothly. Otherwise, sounds like it is firing on two cylinders. Can not adjust the TPS because it will not idle.
ECU code - 34 Detonation sensor circuit. Where is this one?
Also, in my haste to pull the upper radiator hose to access the TPS, I spilled anti-freeze into the throttle body chamber. Don't know how much, not sure if this is causing my starting and firing problem. This will probably lead to catalytic converter issues if it is too much, but I guess that can be addressed later.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 8:38 PM 11/26/2005
when you put the tps on you will rotate it in so the spring of the sensor pushes aginst the throttle shaft tab. Once you have it in place so you can start the screws you use a volt meter and measure the voltage on the white wire so it reads .45volts or as close as you can get to that. then tighten the screws so it will hold that position. Your run problem does sound like you got quite a bit of coolant in there. Tps wont cause that. Take the spark plugs out and clean them off. Crank the engine over with out the plugs in to blow as much coolant out of the cyl as possible. The coolant is less detrimental to the cat as it is to the O2 sensor. We will see how it fairs up when your done clearing the system of coolant and getin the o2 set.
The knock sensor code may have been set when you removed the tps. There is a 2 wire connector near the front of the cyl head right above the water inlet. If you disconnected that it could of been what set the code. Either that or the connection is corroded similar to the TPS connector.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:38 PM 11/27/2005
Okay, followed your previous instructions-Set TPS at .453 volts, tightened it down. Reconnected all of the hoses, air intake tubes. Three connectors you mentioned in front of water outlet - cleaned them, reconnected. Removed all spark plugs, cleaned them, cranked each cylinder to push compression and hopefully moisture out. Started it and ....RAN!! SMOOTH!! Let it idle, cleaned up tools, went for a drive in the rain and,... same old sh*t! Stuck in 3rd, and the longer it ran, the worse it ran. Had to keep it above 1500 rpm to get any semblance of "smooth". By the time I got back to my driveway, I was lucky to limp back into the garage. ECU check- 55's!!! 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 6:26 AM 11/28/2005 is the od light flashing again? if so do the test procedure again and see if your still getting a tps code. Also check the terminals in the TPS connector,1 see if they are clean if not clean them with some battery terminal cleaner or bakingsode/water mix. 2 try gently bending the female terminal in the connector toward the center of the opening slightly to get a better contact with the tps terminals.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 7:07 PM 11/28/2005 O/D light will not flash. Comes on for 2 seconds, then goes off. Does nothing once the self-diagnosis sequence is complete.
Car started fine (cold), and as it warmed up, a miss developed, getting more severe. As the rpm's went down to 1,000 rpm, an occasional miss, drop to 975 rpm, severe miss. Needs accelerator to smooth engine out. 2,500 rpm smoothes everything out. At operating temp., 1,300 rpm is smooth, but needs accelerator. Letting off accelerator allows engine to lug, then stall. Will not idle on its own at operating temperature.
The replacement TPS appears to have the identical connector as the old, but will not plug all the way into the receptacle on the engine like the original one did. It will not go all the way to the plastic lock on the receiving receptacle. I assume good contact, because 1) No longer have the O/D light flashing and 2) great improvement over how it ran before (initially) when I finally got it started again. After attempting O/D self-diagnosis, checked the ECU.....55's. What about dirty fuel filter or dirt in the fuel pick-up in the tank? Am I considering "What if's" in the wrong area? 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 5:09 AM 11/29/2005
You have a large vaccum leak. check your intake hose and make sure it is correctly mounted to the throttle body and there are not splits in the hose, check the hose under the intake tube that goes to a baffle thats mounted to your radiator fan shroud. Its on the same side of the fan as the throttle body. Make sure it is connected properly.
The TPS connector: unplug it and make sure you dont have 2 rubber seals in there. There should only be one rubber seal in there. If the OD light is off you are likely correct that the connection is there. Your car should be shifting ok at this point. Get the vaccum problem resolved. It has to be where you were working as it wasent a problem before. You had to have knocked something loose unknowingly in that area.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 9:03 AM 11/29/2005
Will do, did not consider the possibility of two seals in the receptacle end of the TPS plug. P.S. - GET SOME SLEEP!!! I have been noticing the time associated with your responses and you are up and running entirely too early! 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 8:39 PM 11/29/2005 LOL , I am on the west coast. It was about 5 am PT when I posted. I wake up some time around then. The alarm is set for 6 but I rarly have it wake me up as I wake up earlier.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 9:33 AM 11/30/2005 Re-checked the vaccuum connections as you suggested, all appear to be in good shape, no holes visible, and connected. The rubber snorkle tube from the plastic intake tube to the throttle body is starting to show some age in between some of the ribs, but no holes all the way through. When I removed the throttle body during the first go-around, I did not replace the thin, plastic gasket between the back of the throttle body and the intake funnel. All appeared to be okay, I just bolted it back up and tightened it down. Possibility of a leak there? After re-checking and re-tightening everything last night, it runs "a little" better, but still cuts out, runs rough, etc. when it starts to run rough or starts to stall and I depress the accelerator, the roughness actually gets worse, then the engine seems to catch up to where the accelerator is, and the rpm's go up and it smooths out. I guess I'm saying a severe hesitation in throttle response. Also, if I feather the accelerator with rapid depress/release, the increase in rpm's is smoother and quicker. I have a feeling I just explained myself in a complete circle, but that's the best I can do without showing you. 09quickly
Post Title: Re: 92 240 SX Convertible - Auto Trans. stays in 3rd gear. (09quickly) Posted by:yellow_jacket at 9:37 AM 11/30/2005 After trying to read through this entire post, I hope I get your information right.
It sounds like you did not try to run the tranny through the gears manually after you fixed the shifter issue. Putting the shifter into the 1 position should eliminate any electrical issues are it should be running in pure hydraulic mode. This is not the case with all manufacturers, but I am pretty sure Nissan did this.
Also, have you tried completely disconnecting the control harness from the tranny? This should also kick it into a hydraulic mode which will cause the shift points to be raised, but it will shift through the gears.
If the car fails to shift under hydraulic power, this is an indication of an internal fairlure of the transmission.
Post Title: Re: 92 240 SX Convertible - Auto Trans. stays in 3rd gear. (yellow_jacket) Posted by:09quickly at 7:20 PM 11/30/2005
Hey NISTECH - Is the last post my next step? I doesn't address the vacuum leak issue anymore is why I ask. I will gladly take suggestions from folks in the know, I just want to make sure I keep going in one direction. 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 7:38 PM 11/30/2005 I dont know where that info came from yellow jacket but it is absolutly false information. All nissan automatic trans built at least starting in the late 80's use and electronic revolution sensor to determine shift points. This sensor replaced the old governor. If you unplug the electrical harness to the trans it will go into third gear and stay there. That is done so you can at least get the car to a shop to get fixed. It will NEVER shift with out shift solonoid a and b directing the hydrolic pressure to the appropriate places in the valve body.
Jim, I would be suspect of your throttle gasket but honestly the way you just described the acceleration it sounds like an airflow problem, it did in the begining but I was basing the fact it didnt seem a problem initially so I went for hose leaks. Like I said there is like a 2 inch hose under that plastic tube that attaches to a baffle. That hose was my first thought cause it is big enough to cause severe maf reading problems. But you may have disturbed the airflow meter connection during the repair. SO unplug the airflow meter and see if your idle improves at all. Also look at the terminals and see if they have corrosion on them. Also take voltage readings off of it while its plugged in from the back of the terminals. You will need to gently pull back the rubber boot to gain access to the wires. You should see 3 voltages at idle. ~12v,~1.3v and less then .2v. If the lowest voltage wire is not less then .2v you need to add an additional ground. This is a pretty common problem on nissans. This will have nothing to do with your shift condition if it still exists ,I am unclear if that is still a problem or not. Did you get the TPS to plug in correctly?
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 7:53 PM 11/30/2005
To the best of my knowledge, yes. When installing, I noted the positon of the flat part of throttle in the throttle body, (I'm sure it has a specific name, but that's the best way I can describe it) and matched i up with the flat part of the cam in the TPS. Once fully seated, I had to turn the TPS very little to get it to align toward the front of the engine and the receptacles it needs to connect to. If it needed to be installed on the throttle rod 180 degrees off and rotated in some fashion from that point toward the front, I did not do that. Still no shifting.
The hose you are describing sounds like the one directly under the plastic tubing, next to the radiator, about the size of a radiator hose. THAT hose has small, visible cracks and splits in it, but what I was able to see is above the clamp. I did not look a the entire thing, I couldn't figure out where it leads to to be honest with you. Is it a b***h to deal with?
Are the Airflow Meter and the MAF one in the same? I know where the MAF is, and it appears a whole lot easier to work on than the TPS. Thanks for your continued guidance. 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 8:10 PM 11/30/2005
MAF=Mass Air Flow meter. Same part. You put the TPS on right I was wondering if you got the connector issue resolved. The big hose underneath is not that bad to deal with. It should only be about 2 to 4 inches in lenght then attach to a plastic box type thing [baffle].
Get a look at your airflow readings at idle. But I am also perplexed as to why the trans is not shifting and there not being a code in the trans system. Total control shut down is what causes it to get stuck in fail safe third gear. Make sure you got the TCM plugged back in and any other wires near the TCM. Since you cant get the OD light to flash an all good signal something must not be hooked up. Also check your fuses for any blown. Could of accidently blown one during testing.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:37 PM 11/30/2005
Ah yes, the connector. Only one rubber gasket inside female end. I left it in, and (embarrassment here) used electrical tape to secure the two fittings together since the new TPS plug would not lock completely into the old fitting. I hate rigging things like that, but at the time, I thought that was the only hurdle I had left. Possibility of wrong TPS? Like I said, I ordered it from the Auto Parts warehouse online, $37.00 + shipping. I don't know anything about their reputation. I will attempt the other tests you recommended hopefully tomorrow after work. 09quickly
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:yellow_jacket at 4:42 PM 12/1/2005
Quote, originally posted by NISTECH »
I dont know where that info came from yellow jacket but it is absolutly false information. All nissan automatic trans built at least starting in the late 80's use and electronic revolution sensor to determine shift points. This sensor replaced the old governor. If you unplug the electrical harness to the trans it will go into third gear and stay there. That is done so you can at least get the car to a shop to get fixed. It will NEVER shift with out shift solonoid a and b directing the hydrolic pressure to the appropriate places in the valve body.
Like I said, many other manufacturers have run that way. Nissan may not have, but when the tranny harness was unplugged from my 1992 auto it shifted through all the gears. Sure the shifts were harsh and always at higher rpms, but it still shifted. 95 Ford F-350, same deal.
Doesn't really matter though, best of luck to ya 09quickly
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 8:00 PM 12/1/2005
Voltages at the MAF - 14.3, 1.7, and .013. ran worse when disconnected. could not give it any throttle without a miss.
Fuses by the battery all look good, no obvious breaks in the metal bands. Fuses under the dash also look good, I found the CONSULT plug....It looks mighty inviting... but Iwill forget about it for now.
You mentioned making sure I reconnected the TCU - I never disconnected it. I only removed it from its mounting point for access to the wires. It and my ECU and another little brass box that all mount in that little area are all laying on my passenger side floor still. Does having them mounted to the car frame complete a ground circuit maybe? 09quickly
The vacuum hose you mentioned last night is covered with oil and grease from my extremely bad oil leak (oil pan) I will attempt to look at the hose and the box it feeds into over the weekend.
Post Title: Posted by:NISTECH at 5:48 AM 12/4/2005
The car wont accelerate properly with the maf disconnected but it should idle alot better. 1.7 volts at idle is a little high of a reading for the maf. Was your test done with the engine warmed up? IF not retest it at operating temps.Your ground and source looks ok though.If your test was done warm, can you get ahold of a spare MAF maybe borrow a known good one from someone? slap it on and retest to see if you got an improvement? Dont run out and buy one as your reading is borderline.
No you dont have to have them attached to the body to function properly just as long as they are plugged in.
Unless you have a consult dont screw with the consult plug. There is nothing you can manually do with that.
That 2 in hose is not a vaccum hose it is an air baffle to quite down your intake system. But if it develops a leak to atmosphere it will cause the car to run poor. However judgeing your maf voltage I would say you dont have any vaccum leaks cause it is registering higher then normal airflow through it.
Post Title: Re: (NISTECH) Posted by:09quickly at 6:10 PM 12/12/2005
HEY, REMEMBER ME?! I fell off the face of the earth for awhile, but now I'm back. Work, Christmas Parties, Christmas decorations, etc., kept me occupied elsewhere, but I should be able to do what I want to do for a while.
Okay - voltage checks on the MAF - disconnected, idled to operating temp., connectors L to R (empty connector slot on the right): .005, .007, 14.04. MAF connected : 1.134 -1.154 (Sporadic reading, would not settle in on one reading), .012, 14.07.
Also, I read something in the FAQ's about proper grounding of the entire system. I set my multimeter to ohms, and , car running, put a lead on the negative battery post, the other on an unpainted screw. ohms read 1.2 for the most part, but did jump sporadically, sometimes up toward 7. Any concerns? 09quickly
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:09quickly at 6:38 PM 12/26/2005
I FINALLY got it running smoothly, for 165,000 miles anyway. - Don't know what sequence caused it, but I disconnected the battery for about an hour then reconnected it. Also disconnected and reconnected ECM and TCM, checking wires and securing the tightening bolts very secure. Starts like a champ now, I hear a rattle at the front of the engine that sounds like the timing chain according to some of the other threads I have been reading, but I will check that out when I redo the oil pan and gasket. STILL.... stuck in 3rd gear. O/D light doesn't blink at all. comes on for 2-3 seconds, then goes out. Possibility I have the wrong or poorly connected TPS after all of this? I purchased it from Autoparts warehouse online, and it is stamped "made in Italy". 09quickly
Post Title: Posted by:gehzumteufel at 8:44 PM 12/26/2005 haha sounds like the ECU just needed to be reset after replacing the TPS. well congrats on fixing it!
Post Title: Re: (gehzumteufel) Posted by:09quickly at 6:41 PM 10/9/2006 Just an update to my l-o-n-g and slow project progress. NISTECH, again you were correct regarding the TPS issue. after replacing the TPS and still having a rough acceleration issue, you diagnosed a vacuum leak somewhere. I replaced the gasket at the throttle body and intake manifold (I had pulled it off during the TPS install, but didn't replace the gasket), and the hesitation issue cleared up. I also installed USC Justice's old automatic transmission (recently rebuilt), and it works like a champ. I drove the car around quite bit today, the first time in about 10 months. It was beautiful convertible weather. Still many things to do to it, but now I can say it runs. I also replaced struts, outer tie rods, sway bar bushings (all stock) and it drives great. If only I could work 2 days a week and work on the convertible 5, things would move along much more quickly.
Post Title: Re: (09quickly) Posted by:rogoman at 4:42 PM 10/10/2006
Quote, originally posted by 09quickly »
1) Oil pan gasket - In following the instructions for oil pan gasket replacement in the manual, it says to drop the front suspension cross member to get access to the pan. The motor mounts are on this cross member, not on the frame. Do I need to support the engine in some fashion before dropping this cross member on my head? Also, while I have the pan off, will the crankshaft seals be easily accessed to replace them at the same time as well? (Lying on my back with the car on jack stands, front only).
You do not have to remove the front cross member. - unbolt the motor mounts from the cross member. - remove the front sway bar. - jack the motor up in the front about 2" to 3". - put blocks of wood between the bottom of the motor mounts and the cross member. - unbolt the oil pan. - remove the oil pickup from the block; two bolts to remove and don't lose the O-ring or else you'll have no oil pressure after reassembly. - you should now be able to slide the oil pan forward and out.
Removing the oil pan will not give you access to the crankshaft seals. The seals can be replaced without removing the oil pan. - to access the front seal, the front crank pulley needs to be removed. - to access the rear seal, the tranny and the flywheel needs to be removed.
Post Title: Re: (rogoman) Posted by:09quickly at 6:09 AM 10/11/2006
Yeah, I already went that route. I suspended the engine from the shock towers with a homemade rig, and dropped EVERYTHING from underneath. Wheels off (of course), struts, sway bar, power steering rack, lines, (which led to my other thread). I still had an issue with free movement of the pan after loosening it, as well as trying to put it back in place with the oil pick up set up the way it is. With the space I had to work in etc., I ended up sliding the pan, apparently too much. Now that I am going to tackle it again, let me ask some questions I should have asked before: 1) Permatex gray is the sealer I used. The right one? Or is there a more specific liquid sealer to be used? 2) How long after install should I wait before getting some heat to the sealer? I waited months between installing the new pan and actually starting it. Is it possible the sealer did not set up correctly? 3) I replaced the front and rear crank seals the first time around, they have less than 3 months and 100 miles on them. If I decide to look at them again, do I need to replace them with new ones if I pull them off to inspect them now? 4) Torque specs. for the oil pan bolts? I tried not to over tighten them, but I only used the calibrated elbow tool, not a torque wrench.
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