Has anyone changed their own brakes

[Indy Golfer]

I need to have my brakes changed on my 2006 M45, but I have a hard time paying $900 for my dealership to do it. I have done a lot of brakes, just want to make sure there isn't anything tricky about doing these before I dive into it.

Thanks for any help.

[New2Import]

$900 WOW. I did C/D rotors and ceramic pads for half that myself. Very easy. Just need a C clamp to move pistons in calipers back with the the old pad in it. Some things you just have to do it yourself. Oil and brakes are just one of the few.

[BigP]

Is there a tutorial somewhere on the web or does anyone teach this stuff to regular guys who are fairly mechanically inclined but just need to know the fine points and make sure they have the right tools?

I know I could change pads if I had a step by step guide. I certainly would want it done correctly but I think dealers hold us hostage on this with knowledge they think we can't obtain.

[New2Import]

Great point. I first learned on just getting out there and just doing it. Not being afraid when I owned my first car at 17. I then got Haynes manuals on my cars since I always owned domestic.

[Indy Golfer]

Thanks for the reply, looks like I need to start shopping.

What brand of rotors and pads did you use? Did you notice any performance difference over the stock setup to warrant the extra cost?

I think it would be nice if this forum had a "Do It Yourself" section like other forums have.

Thanks again

[New2Import]

No big improvement with C/D rotors. If you go ceramic pads it keeps the dust off your rims. Im saving up for the BBK kit.

[Manok]

Can you take out two bolts? If so, you can change your brakes.

[loystock]

Personally, I replace brake pads when thickness falls below 5mm, although minimum acceptable thickness is 2mm. Rotors need not be replaced unless they are cracked, severely warped, thickness is below spec. or upgrade is desired. A warped rotor may be turned for @ $20 each provided the resulting thickness does not fall below spec. Be careful when buying aftermarket brake pads. Some of them are too hard (and nois?) that your stopping distance may be affected.

IoS at http://www.infinitipartsusa.com, has an additional 5% off extended until mid-July. IoS is one of NICO sponsors (I don't work for them)

Below is a procedure for those who want to service their brake. I modified the procedure from FSM for clarification and inclusion of optional steps.

M35/M45 Brake Pads ReplacementSpecification (from FSM) and Pricing from IoS: -Front Rotor: 28mm new/26mm minimum; Maximum Runout=0.035mm ($82.11 from IoS) -Rear Rotor: 16mm new/14mm minimum; Maximum Runout=0.055mm ($69.20 from IoS) -Front Brake Pads: 11mm new/2mm minimum ($61.33 from IoS) -Rear Brake Pads: 8.5mm new/2mm minimum ($58.66 from IoS)

Tools and Materials Required -Tire wrench, jack and jack stand -Breaker bar (1/2” drive) -Ratchet Drive (1/2” or 3/8”) -Metric sockets (14mm for pin bolts, 21mm for lug nuts; 22mm for torque member bolts if rotor needs removal/replacement) -Torque wrench (32 ft-lbs for pin bolt, 72-87 ft-lbs for lug nuts) -C-clamp (for pushing the piston) -wire sufficient to support the brake cylinder body -optional steel brush to clean lug nuts and hub bolts -optional disc brake cleaner -DOT 3l Brake Fluid (32 oz), container and vinyl tube for optional Bleeding Brake System -PBC grease or CRC Disc Brake Quiet -suitable wipes/rugs Removal and Installation of Brake Pad (from FSM) REMOVAL1. Remove tires from vehicle with power tool (or tire wrench or breaker bar with 21mm socket).2. Remove lower sliding pin bolt (14mm socket).3. Hang cylinder body with a wire, and remove pads, pad retainers, shims, and shim cover from torque member (Option: clean retainer and shims with brake pad cleaner).Note: If rotor needs to be removed – First remove both pin bolts and hang cylinder body. Then remove both Torque Member mounting bolts (breaker bar may be required with 22mm socket ) and pull out the torque member. Pull out the rotor (have them turned or replaced)CAUTION:Deform pad retainer when removing pad retainer from torque member.INSTALLATION1. Apply PBC (Poly Butyl Cuprysil) grease or equivalent (or CRC Disc Brake Quiet) to between shim cover and shim. Install inner shim, inner shim cover to inner pad, and outer shim, outer shim cover to outer pad.2. Install pad retainers and pads to torque member.3. Press in piston until pads can be installed (use C-clamp and old brake pad to push piston), and then install cylinder body to torque member.CAUTION:In the case of replacing a pad with new one, check a brake fluid level in the reservoir tank because brake fluid returns to master cylinder reservoir tank when pressing piston in.NOTE:Use a disc brake piston tool (commercial service tool, or C-clamp) to easily press piston (use the old pad together with the C-clamp to press the piston until it is flush with the piston cylinder).4. Install upper sliding pin bolt and tighten to the specified torque. Refer to BR-29, "Components".5. Check rear disc brake for drag.OPTION: Bleed Brake System in sequence- rear right, front left, rear left and front right. Ensure brake reservoir level does not go below minimum or air will enter the system (spongy brake)6. Install tires to vehicle (Torque lug nuts to 72-87 ft-lbs. Over-torquing may warp the rotor).

Good luck

Rod

[BigP]

This is great information...thanks.

Mike

[M45Caliber]

I now have almost 2000 miles on my new rotors and brakes, and in a word: AWESOME! I had Frozen Rotors and Hawk HPS pads installed on all four corners for the cost of new front rotors and pads via the dealer. I use the dealer for ALL other maintenance, except tires and brakes.

These binders are MUCH more linear, have stronger stopping power at all speeds and have firmed up the brake pedal a little bit too.

And virtually zero dust to boot. I had to brake very hard recently (from ~100 down to 65 - don't ask, don't tell, OK) and it was like a Star Fleet tractor beam grabbed the a**-end of my M and locked on. Absolutlely no shuddering and no fade. These brakes actually get a little stronger after they are warmed up a bit. Gave the seatbelt/shoulder harness a good test too.

Search this forum for a few other posts on this topic, but the rotors AND pads for all 4 corners were around $600. My mechanic installed all of this for a flat $180. Once again -- these are not OEM -- these were the FROZEN ROTORS and HAWK pads. Unreal.

I can recommend this set up without hesitation - best brakes I've used to date. Wish I had a set up like this back in my IMSA and SCCA days.

I'd have been out-braking those pesky 930's into turn nine at Riverside and the corkscrew at Laguna.

[BigHeadDennis]

This is great, loystock - thanks! Do you have a similar write-up for replacing the rotors?

--Dennis

Personally, I replace brake pads when thickness falls below 5mm, although minimum acceptable thickness is 2mm. Rotors need not be replaced unless they are cracked, severely warped, thickness is below spec. or upgrade is desired. A warped rotor may be turned for @ $20 each provided the resulting thickness does not fall below spec. Be careful when buying aftermarket brake pads. Some of them are too hard (and nois?) that your stopping distance may be affected.

IoS at http://www.infinitipartsusa.com, has an additional 5% off extended until mid-July. IoS is one of NICO sponsors (I don't work for them)

Below is a procedure for those who want to service their brake. I modified the procedure from FSM for clarification and inclusion of optional steps.

M35/M45 Brake Pads ReplacementSpecification (from FSM) and Pricing from IoS: -Front Rotor: 28mm new/26mm minimum; Maximum Runout=0.035mm ($82.11 from IoS) -Rear Rotor: 16mm new/14mm minimum; Maximum Runout=0.055mm ($69.20 from IoS) -Front Brake Pads: 11mm new/2mm minimum ($61.33 from IoS) -Rear Brake Pads: 8.5mm new/2mm minimum ($58.66 from IoS)

Tools and Materials Required -Tire wrench, jack and jack stand -Breaker bar (1/2” drive) -Ratchet Drive (1/2” or 3/8”) -Metric sockets (14mm for pin bolts, 21mm for lug nuts; 22mm for torque member bolts if rotor needs removal/replacement) -Torque wrench (32 ft-lbs for pin bolt, 72-87 ft-lbs for lug nuts) -C-clamp (for pushing the piston) -wire sufficient to support the brake cylinder body -optional steel brush to clean lug nuts and hub bolts -optional disc brake cleaner -DOT 3l Brake Fluid (32 oz), container and vinyl tube for optional Bleeding Brake System -PBC grease or CRC Disc Brake Quiet -suitable wipes/rugs Removal and Installation of Brake Pad (from FSM) REMOVAL1. Remove tires from vehicle with power tool (or tire wrench or breaker bar with 21mm socket).2. Remove lower sliding pin bolt (14mm socket).3. Hang cylinder body with a wire, and remove pads, pad retainers, shims, and shim cover from torque member (Option: clean retainer and shims with brake pad cleaner).Note: If rotor needs to be removed – First remove both pin bolts and hang cylinder body. Then remove both Torque Member mounting bolts (breaker bar may be required with 22mm socket ) and pull out the torque member. Pull out the rotor (have them turned or replaced)CAUTION:Deform pad retainer when removing pad retainer from torque member.INSTALLATION1. Apply PBC (Poly Butyl Cuprysil) grease or equivalent (or CRC Disc Brake Quiet) to between shim cover and shim. Install inner shim,inner shim cover to inner pad, and outer shim, outer shim cover to outer pad.2. Install pad retainers and pads to torque member.3. Press in piston until pads can be installed (use C-clamp and old brake pad to push piston), and then install cylinderbody to torque member.CAUTION:In the case of replacing a pad with new one, check a brakefluid level in the reservoir tank because brake fluid returnsto master cylinder reservoir tank when pressing piston in.NOTE:Use a disc brake piston tool (commercial service tool, or C-clamp) to easilypress piston (use the old pad together with the C-clamp to press the piston until it is flush with the piston cylinder).4. Install upper sliding pin bolt and tighten to the specified torque.Refer to BR-29, "Components" .5. Check rear disc brake for drag.OPTION: Bleed Brake System in sequence- rear right, front left, rear left and front right. Ensure brake reservoir level does not go below minimum or air will enter the system (spongy brake)6. Install tires to vehicle (Torque lug nuts to 72-87 ft-lbs. Over-torquing may warp the rotor).

Good luck

Rod

[szh]

$900 WOW. I did C/D rotors and ceramic pads for half that myself. Very easy. Just need a C clamp to move pistons in calipers back with the the old pad in it. Some things you just have to do it yourself. Oil and brakes are just one of the few.

Please do also remember to clean and regrease the caliper pins ... to avoid sticking pins!

Z

[szh]

Do you have a similar write-up for replacing the rotors?

The info is in the FSM (link is in my sig - my first post in this thread above). Although, I am sure that real world experience would modify it - similar to what Rod did for the pad change description he posted above.

Z

[jedgington]

Thanks for the info, loystock.

I went to IoS website to order OEM replacement front brake pads for my 06 M35X. If you browse their catalog, and click Brakes - Brake components - Front pads, you are presented with one option, the pads you listed for $61.33. However, if you go a different route and click Front Suspension - Brake components - Front pads, you are presented with two options, the pads for 2WD ($61.33) and for AWD ($76.66). Different prices, so I assume different parts.

When looking for aftermarket brake pads at other websites, I've noticed that their front pads are listed as replacements for the base 2WD model, sport model, and the X AWD model.

So, my question is: are OEM replacement brake pads different for 2WD and AWD? If so, what makes the AWD model cost almost 25% more?

[loystock]

I checked the FSM which applies to both 2006 M35 and M45. The SDS (Service and Data Specifications) provides only one pad dimension for the front pads. So I'm not sure what is the difference. Maybe other forum members can chime in.

[ArbitrageMan]

I now have almost 2000 miles on my new rotors and brakes, and in a word: AWESOME! I had Frozen Rotors and Hawk HPS pads installed on all four corners for the cost of new front rotors and pads via the dealer. I use the dealer for ALL other maintenance, except tires and brakes.

These binders are MUCH more linear, have stronger stopping power at all speeds and have firmed up the brake pedal a little bit too.

And virtually zero dust to boot. I had to brake very hard recently (from ~100 down to 65 - don't ask, don't tell, OK) and it was like a Star Fleet tractor beam grabbed the a**-end of my M and locked on. Absolutlely no shuddering and no fade. These brakes actually get a little stronger after they are warmed up a bit. Gave the seatbelt/shoulder harness a good test too.

Search this forum for a few other posts on this topic, but the rotors AND pads for all 4 corners were around $600. My mechanic installed all of this for a flat $180. Once again -- these are not OEM -- these were the FROZEN ROTORS and HAWK pads. Unreal.

I can recommend this set up without hesitation - best brakes I've used to date. Wish I had a set up like this back in my IMSA and SCCA days.

I'd have been out-braking those pesky 930's into turn nine at Riverside and the corkscrew at Laguna.

Just curious, you didnt need to change the brake lines or anything other than the rotors and pads right?

[svard75]

On this note I have a question. I recently replaced the pads on all fours and cleaned everything up nicely. Painted the calipers a fresh silver and used a high temp copper grease on all areas that touch the pads. I am experiencing brake squeal. I then redid the greasing portion and again brake squeal. I just reused the original retainers but there were no shims do I really need the extra shims? The pads are Monroe and come with shims attached.

CHEERS!

[jedgington]

So I'm not sure what is the difference.

Well, I called Joe at IoS today to ask the question and to order the front pads. Evidently, the same brakes fit all models. But, there are two part numbers. The first one is 41060-EG090, and is the $61.33 variety. It seems that this part has been superseded by D1060-EG51A, and is $76.66 [prices are IoS prices]. Either will work. Joe wasn't exactly sure about the difference, or why one is $15 more, but suspected it was a change in suppliers or a change in compound. He still has some of the -EG090 in stock, and they are likely the part # originally fitted to my car, and they're cheaper! So, I ordered a set of those.

Thanks to Joe at IoS for helping me out.

[loystock]

Joe is DA MAN. He's a parts manager now but is still willing to help anytime he's available. When one of his guys messed up with my 2nd to the last order, he apologized and contacted me personally. Nobody is perfect. My latest order just arrived today, as scheduled.

[szh]

Joe is DA MAN. He's a parts manager now but is still willing to help anytime he's available. When one of his guys messed up with my 2nd to the last order, he apologized and contacted me personally. Nobody is perfect. My latest order just arrived today, as scheduled.

Most Excellent!

Unfortunately, mistakes do happen. But it is how people rectify mistakes that makes all the difference!

And, this is the reason why we recommend http://www.everythinginfiniti.com for sure. Joe Tsensky has been a long-time NICO sponsor and helps us out.

Z

[jedgington]

loystock -

Well I replaced the front pads last night. I followed your directions to the letter, along with the pages from the BR section of the manual. It took me about 2 hours to complete. I spent a lot of time cleaning junk from the shims and retainers before regreasing them. I used the CRC brake quiet between the shims and pads.

Although I am mechanically-inclined, I've never worked on my car before. I greatly appreciate your walkthrough. The only thing I'd add to your writeup is the brake burnishing procedure described in the service manual.

Thanks again!

[M45Caliber]

AM -- that is correct -- a simple bolt on operation. The rotors are premium stock in the OEM size. Frozen Rotors treats them cyrogenically (sp?) which effectively modifies the characteristics of the alloys from which they are made - significantly hardening them.

I took the liberty of painting the calipers as well, to clean up the look. If you search this forum there is a post with "before and after" pics, etc.

I may not have that racer-look with slotted and drilled rotors, but I got me some butt-kickin binders that out perform stock by a wide margin and should last about 50 to 75K miles (per their experience).

The Hawk pads are also virtually dustless as well. no residue between washings.

I was sceptical before taking the plunge on this set up but now, after a couple of thousand miles, I couldn't be happier.

[mizzoulew]

Hi, loystock. I hope you're still visiting this site. I have a 2007 M35x that I'm replacing the front disc pads and hardware. The AKEBONO ProACT ceramic pads that I bought and the Dorman hardware, are significantly different from my OEM stuff. There are two sets of shims with the Infiniti hardware, plus new caliper brackets for the pads to "slide" in. The Dorman hardware consists of only one curly clip for each pad and I don't understand how that installs or works in this configuration. Also, you recommended lubing between the inner and outer shims on the Infiniti hardware. The AKEBONO shims, only one per pad, are apparently glued or bonded to the disc pad plate from the factory. Should I lube the back of the shim or leave it alone (dry)? There's a small vial of lube in the AKEBONO box, no instructions. Should it be used on the disc plate tabs that slide back and forth inside the caliper hardware?

Finally, the Infiniti dealership parts people are telling me that they do NOT install ceramic pads, but semi-metallic. I went ahead and purchased the Infiniti pads because the hardware was so different, I thought I should. When comparing the AKEBONO and Infiniti pads, the Infiniti's are thicker, have two, rather than one, heat slots, and, the pad surface is light brown vs, black on the AKEBONO. I read a thread that said there's a "second generation" pad from the original. These Infiniti pads are part no. D1060 - EG51A, corresponding to a newer pad. Could these be better, possibly ceramic?

The Infiniti dealership people say the ceramic pads are harder and will warp the rotors. I've heard just the opposite about metallic and semi-metallic and have installed ceramic pads on my Honda Accord and F-150 - no problems. I thought ceramic pads run cooler and are less abrasive on rotors. Which is right?

[ffakr]

The AKEBONO ProACT ceramic pads that I bought and the Dorman hardware, are significantly different from my OEM stuff.
...

The Infiniti dealership people say the ceramic pads are harder and will warp the rotors. I've heard just the opposite about metallic and semi-metallic and have installed ceramic pads on my Honda Accord and F-150 - no problems. I thought ceramic pads run cooler and are less abrasive on rotors. Which is right?

I installed the BrakeMotive slotted and cross-drilled rotors, probably 40k miles ago, along with a set of Akebono pads based on On-Line reviews of the pads.
The pads are excellent. Almost no dust compared to the OEM. Stopping power has been great. After all that mileage, I've got little wear on the pads or rotors, though I have been driving for fuel economy lately.

I've got the M35 up on stands again to swap out the pads and rotors now though because the fronts are warped. They went from a little wobble at speed to heavy shuttering under braking so I can't procrastinate any longer.

I can't say for sure that the Akebonos caused the warp.. or if the removal of the metal for the venting contributed. The M35 is a big heavy car and big-heavy cars tend to get warped rotors. I bought the first set of BrakeMotive rotors because the original Infiniti OEM rotors with OEM pads were warped too.. so it's not like the OEM rotors with Infiniti semi-Metallics don't have the same problems.

The upside of Ceramics is that they're harder and more durable. They should stop better than semi-metalics or organics while shedding less dust. They do tend to be noisier than semi-metallics or organics.. because they're harder. [same reason a rock scratched a metal plate would be louder than an eraser rubbed across a metal plate]

There is, potentially, some truth to the concern about warping though. Rotors warp because they get too hot. Brakes convert one form of energy [momentum] to another [heat] so the better job your brakes do at stopping you, and the harder your stops, the more heat. The thing that sounds suspicious about the Dealer's claims is that Ceramics cause more warping AND they don't stop as well as semi-metallics. You can't have it both ways.. are they better at stopping and therefore create more heat or are they worse? If they're worse than semi-metallics at stopping, they should be less likely to warp rotors.

For me.. I think there's enough mass left to have the current BrakeMotives turned but I'm worried they'll be out of balance if turned. Turning is a better option for removing scoring than for fixing a warp. Given the low cost of the BrakeMotives, I figured better to just replace them.
If I were really frugal.. I could probably get another 40K miles out of the pads too.. but I got a set of rotors with bundled pads and we're thinking of trading it in soon so I'll just swap them all out.
I've got some scoring on the old rotors too from letting the car sit out in the weather too much. The galvanized parts of the BrakeMotives still look great, but the worn surface rusts and pits like any other steel rotor. Since scoring on the rotor means scoring on the pads.. no sense in putting scored pads on new rotors even if there's plenty of 'meat' left on them.