turbo the hard body ka24e??

[motoman399]

hey i have a friend with a 92 nissan hardbody pickup. he wants to turbo it. has anyone ever done this? and would you have to use a 240 intake manifold??? thanks

[nismopu]

it makes things alot easier. Also, theres several who've done this over at KA-T peace.
Modified by nismopu at 8:23 PM 9/1/2008

[98frontier]

You need a throttle body too

[TeamGuam]

I brought that up with a shop that works on 240s and they said to just do a sr20 swap but I know people debate that a lot so I don't want to start anything.

[nismopu]

They always say to do the SR swap. Its the cheapest route but its also a cop out. Its not any better suited for boost than the KA and either one can be just as reliable as the other. Also, dont listen to people who downplay your ideas right away. Always listen to the person who helps you in your current direction, then listen to them if they think your choice isn't the right one. I hate guys who say SR is the ONLY way. I know crap tons of 240sx guys who've NO concept of how to start turbocharging an engine and then think after the SR swap that it IS the only way. I have been inside both engines and neither one shows ANY obvious advantage to being better suited for boost. I will say though the GTI-R SR is the most beeefiest overbuilt 4-cyl. I have ever been inside. Very stought and HEAVY SR but its also very spendy.

If I had a HB these days the only engine I would consider is a turbo vg(SOHC) because its super in-expensive and can make power and torque than the SR, plus how can you beat the sound of a 6cyl? peace.

[AAAgearhead27]

Does anyone know where I can get alot of tech info on the SR swap into a Hardbody? All help is appreciated and Thank you!

[nismopu]

Probably the people who posted in the sticky above all these threads. peace.

[jilo860]

i just bought a 91 hardbody and im thinking of doing the same thing. ive been through 240's and sr's also and id say just sticking with the ka is the easyest idea by far. im not looking for much power out of mine, just torque so im not even thinking about rebuilding the engine.

the easyest cheapest route is t28 from a s14 240sx550cc injectorscheap cast exhaust manifoldmuffler shop downpipe and exhaustenthalpy rom tuned ecucheapo intercooler kit300zx maf

basically a done deal and not much fab. the ka has a long stroke and good displacement so with a small turbo, lots of low end torque is possible. and 10 psi out of a t28 isnt gonna hurt a ka.

[nismopu]

i just bought a 91 hardbody and im thinking of doing the same thing. ive been through 240's and sr's also and id say just sticking with the ka is the easyest idea by far. im not looking for much power out of mine, just torque so im not even thinking about rebuilding the engine.

the easyest cheapest route is t28 from a s14 240sx550cc injectorscheap cast exhaust manifoldmuffler shop downpipe and exhaustenthalpy rom tuned ecucheapo intercooler kit300zx maf

basically a done deal and not much fab. the ka has a long stroke and good displacement so with a small turbo, lots of low end torque is possible. and 10 psi out of a t28 isnt gonna hurt a ka.

Finally! Someone else who has REAL experience. It drives me nut how people listen to shops and not their wallet. I have known so many kids who've done the SR swaps through shops and its cost them close to 4-6k. Where as the system you described above is maybe 1200 bucks. lol! Its just crazy. peace.

[TJcars2]

i just bought a 91 hardbody and im thinking of doing the same thing. ive been through 240's and sr's also and id say just sticking with the ka is the easyest idea by far. im not looking for much power out of mine, just torque so im not even thinking about rebuilding the engine.

the easyest cheapest route is t28 from a s14 240sx550cc injectorscheap cast exhaust manifoldmuffler shop downpipe and exhaustenthalpy rom tuned ecucheapo intercooler kit300zx maf

basically a done deal and not much fab. the ka has a long stroke and good displacement so with a small turbo, lots of low end torque is possible. and 10 psi out of a t28 isnt gonna hurt a ka.

Would this work on a pathfinder too??

[Bigvinnie]

The only problem that I see from the KA24e is that it doesn't use oil squirters. It's single exhaust valve per cylinder chamber isn't to friendly for spool up either.If anything I would just do a KA24de swap and turbo it, The KAe is a waste of time.

[nismopu]

Thats incorrect thinking. Could you tell me the size of the exhaust valve on a KAe? Also, you know the 4g63 mitsu turbo engines have oil squirters as well but in race form they get blocked off because they cause a loss in oil pressure at higher rpms. They're merely for keeping the engine at even temps during daily driving under stock boost and rpm limits. KA's no matter which one dual cam or single cam need all the additional oil pressure they can get, they have problems getting oil to the top at high rpms. Thats the only place where an SR can win the debate, "it revs higher" but when your power is in the lower rpms who cares about higher rpms?

Do you also think there's no such thing as 800hp l-6 engines? Broaden your knowledge of engines before generalizing the features of certain engines. peace.

BTW, just checked your username. I remeber you from over in the KA section when I used to troll through there, you've heard all this stuff before. Especially from some of the old school guys like deviousKA, and Jason grey.Heck you've done a couple cool KA builds in the past right?
Modified by nismopu at 8:08 PM 10/4/2008

[Bigvinnie]

Thats incorrect thinking. Could you tell me the size of the exhaust valve on a KAe? Also, you know the 4g63 mitsu turbo engines have oil squirters as well but in race form they get blocked off because they cause a loss in oil pressure at higher rpms.

Not to start a crazy debate here, fact is what you want from your exhaust is an increased diameter in exhaust. It isn't possible to get the exhaust ports large enough for the flow it will demand. On a KA24de you have 2 exhaust valves which increases curtain space. Exhaust ports are determined on curtain space, not necesarilly the size valve that is used. In comparison a KA24de head flows 1/3 more effecient in CFM when flow tested on a flow bench. Stock for stock the DE head is considerably better. Thats all the fact I would need to determine exhaust flow rate, more curtain space, equals better flow.You could enlarge a KAe exhaust valve and port the exhaust but then again we would be talking about doing a considerable amount of work, and time is money...

Now the 4g63 is an entirely different bread of engine, and why you would compare a KA to a 4g baffles me.... They don't have the same boreXstroke ratio's nore are there rev ranges and redlines the same......Now my understanding is that oil misting (through crank windage) is what inevetabily drops oil pressure. This can easily be resolved with a crank scraper and windage tray, which would actually increase HP in a state of higher rev. You can get windage trays and scrapers for under a $150 and they are easy to install. A KA needs oil squirters, the KA has a long rod stroke which means that there is much frictional loss between piston pin and rod assembly as well as piston rings. Not to mention the KA uses thin ring lands to reduce frictional loss which is overall bad if you try to increase to much boost pressure, so in this case oil squirters would be desired... If you look at Brian Crowers stroker kit, the kit is redesigned with adjusted pin height and thickened ring lands and revs to about 9000RPM with titanium retainer and spring valve assembly.You don't see SR20det guy's removing there oil squirters do you? Oh but then again the sr as well uses windage louvers to reduce oil misting.

BTW, just checked your username. I remeber you from over in the KA section when I used to troll through there, you've heard all this stuff before. Especially from some of the old school guys like deviousKA, and Jason grey.Heck you've done a couple cool KA builds in the past right?

Thats right. Right now my car is in the process of a paint job and the KA engine is getting stripped down for an internal rebuild. I work to much so now I just troll and try to chime in when ever I can....

[nismopu]

Sr guys remove them in most high HP applications, they're not needed. They work best in stock form, if what your saying is true for the reasoning of KA's needing oil squirters then SR's would'nt require them either. Pressure is pressure and where there is a drop, there is a problem. right? I understand your thinking of exhaust flow, but its not necessarily flow that spools turbos. My single cam turbo spooled my t3 just fine before 3k and my friends DE spools maybe 200-300 rpms quicker.

Its not boost pressure that kills ringlands either, its usually detonation that breaks them. If pressure killed ringlands then guys boosting with stock bottom ends on t4 setups of upwards of 20psi would be blowing there guts out. As you know its all in the tune.

One last thing why couldn't you compare a 4g63 to a KA for its features? I am not saying they're anything alike, it was just the first engine that came to mind.

Anyway, its good to see ya trollin around again. We need more knowledgeable KA people around these parts. Don't feel too bad about working to hard and plus its keeps your KA build on task. peace.

[Bigvinnie]

Sr guys remove them in most high HP applications, they're not needed. They work best in stock form, if what your saying is true for the reasoning of KA's needing oil squirters then SR's would'nt require them either. Pressure is pressure and where there is a drop, there is a problem. right? I understand your thinking of exhaust flow, but its not necessarily flow that spools turbos. My single cam turbo spooled my t3 just fine before 3k and my friends DE spools maybe 200-300 rpms quicker.

Its not boost pressure that kills ringlands either, its usually detonation that breaks them. If pressure killed ringlands then guys boosting with stock bottom ends on t4 setups of upwards of 20psi would be blowing there guts out. As you know its all in the tune.

SR guys may remove them but as far as I recall Ivan at AMS still has the highest HP and fastest 1/4mile KA24det to date without removal of oil squirters or use of a windage tray and scraper. His record beats the highest HP sr20det to date.

As far as detonation, it's not an issue with the KA24de since NGK, and denso offer the best iridium plugs on the market to date. Denso and NGK only offer platinums for the KA24e. Most detonation/early misfire usually occurs from spark plug temprature, and or cylinder chamber hot spots.... Spark plugs normally become the weak link to this factor.sually becoming the majority of the hot spot in the cylinder chamber.

2 factors are invloved in creating a decent quick spool.1.) A/F ratio2.) exhaust scavaging ( other wise known as exhaust velocity)

On a KAe you can get the fuel no problem... I've seen sequential fuel injected systems using a 5th inline injector placed into the intake. But to make the kind of power on demand is not effecient since this process demands more fuel to create the heat needed for spooling. Now more fuel demands more advancement which causes a raise in egt. Of coarse there are other factors , I'm just trying to keep it simple. With the proper exhaust velocity spool timing is more effecient damanding less fuel, as well as ebing able to utilize retarded ignition timing for lower egt's, and maintaining leaner A/F ratio's.....

So yeah I can agree to some extent that detonation/early ignition can damage ringlands but if you also use boost it would increase ring failure.

[speedfoos]

As far as detonation, it's not an issue with the KA24de since NGK, and denso offer the best iridium plugs on the market to date. Denso and NGK only offer platinums for the KA24e. Most detonation/early misfire usually occurs from spark plug temprature, and or cylinder chamber hot spots.....So yeah I can agree to some extent that detonation/early ignition can damage ringlands but if you also use boost it would increase ring failure.

I'm a noob to this forum, but not to turbo'ing engines that were never intended to wear an exhaust-driven air pump off their exhaust ports. That being said, that quoted statement makes no sense.

Detonation is caused by poor tuning, not spark plugs. Whether you're running NGK BKR7whatever copper plugs, some nice NGK Iridiums, or platinum triple forked lightning ricer whizzers, if your ECU isn't keeping pace with what's going on in the head, you will get detonation. Period. I've never seen boost pressure break stock rings either and that's on little 75mm bore Hondas pushing 20+ psi, but again on a solid tune.

Pressure won't cause it. It's a rotating assembly. Increased pressure causes to rotate faster, and as long as everything is firing when it's supposed (tuning), you won't harm anything. It's when the timing/tuning/or AFRs are off that detonation occurs at a point the rotating assembly isn't ready to have that particular piston pushed down that you run into bent rods, blown rings, or even fragging the top of your piston. Iridium spark plugs won't prevent that.

[nismopu]

I gave up after he posted the spark plug comment, lol. This is interesting this little tiny thread in the Truck forum( go figure) has sparked this much attention when theres like 15 others just like this ones title. very interesting.

I have never understood how people think boost is some sort of set magical number (10psi= 10hp right?), and KA's break ringlands like saltines at 15 psi. OH and my favorite, if you run to much boost your valves WILL be forced open under the pressure, LAWLZ! That last one was quoted by some high school kid that trolls over at nissancustoms, who believes that he is going to prove everyone wrong with testing different pressures and exhaust size. I cant wait for his results, lol.

Anyway, you know a good place to find a comp. map for a hy35 Holset? peace.

[Bigvinnie]

I'm a noob to this forum, but not to turbo'ing engines that were never intended to wear an exhaust-driven air pump off their exhaust ports. That being said, that quoted statement makes no sense.

Detonation is caused by poor tuning, not spark plugs. Whether you're running NGK BKR7whatever copper plugs, some nice NGK Iridiums, or platinum triple forked lightning ricer whizzers, if your ECU isn't keeping pace with what's going on in the head, you will get detonation. Period. I've never seen boost pressure break stock rings either and that's on little 75mm bore Hondas pushing 20+ psi, but again on a solid tune.

Pressure won't cause it. It's a rotating assembly. Increased pressure causes to rotate faster, and as long as everything is firing when it's supposed (tuning), you won't harm anything. It's when the timing/tuning/or AFRs are off that detonation occurs at a point the rotating assembly isn't ready to have that particular piston pushed down that you run into bent rods, blown rings, or even fragging the top of your piston. Iridium spark plugs won't prevent that.

I gave up after he posted the spark plug comment, lol. This is interesting this little tiny thread in the Truck forum( go figure) has sparked this much attention when theres like 15 others just like this ones title. very interesting.

Anyway, you know a good place to find a comp. map for a hy35 Holset? peace.

Well here I go... back to old fundementals that people forget....Of coarse bad tuning has alot to do with mis fire and detonation... The critical truth is ignition timing..... Here is the temprature to ignition timing to spark plugs... The chart shpould expalin that egt plays a large factor in this but yet it is just a simple graph.Technically you can run an engine lean or rich, where you get detonation is from ignition timing being to far from load which is your K values. If your load is high and you advance timing to much and raise EGT you get misfire, plain and simple. Spark plugs although can reduce this problem as long as you are within a REALISTIC CAS, and K value. If you are a bad tuner you shouldn't be tuning to begin with.... Then you need to understand load, a bit better. But if it is within a realistic load setting then your just dealing lean heat variables from A/Fr's.

If your not understanding that basic logic than maybe your focus should be on something other than engine tuning.

[nismopu]

This is all basic tuning knowledge dude. Wheres the point with the plugs you listed? Whats there heat range? Also, if you were talking about detonation, then why did you mention pressure breaking ringlands? I know you know your **** but I am just confused which point you were trying to get across. If it was tuning, then yeah DUH tuning is key to a reliable setup. It has nothing to do with how much pressure the ringlands can with stand or whether or not the engine is single cam, dual cam, piston squirters or not. Its all about spreading this knowledge to all engines but most importantly Nissan engines. C-mon man dont say some engine is worthless when you know what others have done and what these engines are capable of. It just shows ignorance. Oh and it looks like we got a debate after all. oh well. peace.

[Bigvinnie]

This is all basic tuning knowledge dude. Wheres the point with the plugs you listed? Whats there heat range?

Iridium plugs have a melting point at 4000* F, thats 2/3 greater than the melti point of copper, and 1/2 the melti point of platinum plugs. You can get misfire from not gapping platinum, or copper plugs......I have NEVER gapped a set of iridiums, and I have never had misfire as long as I have used them as a motorsport enthusiast.

Also, if you were talking about detonation, then why did you mention pressure breaking ringlands?

O.K so your saying that you don't know how boost pressure raises EGT's?You don't know how boost pressure increases flamefront propagation?You don't know how boost pressure increases cylinder temprature which effects spark plug life and misfire if not correctly tuned within the K value?

It's these X factors of boosted cylinder pressure that will blow rings but inevetabily all these factors deal with boosted cylinder pressure.

[nismopu]

I have never melted a plug; simply because I have always gone a few steps colder on the plugs right away. Plug choice is important but not the end all be all of preventing detonation. I understand completely what your saying, so I wont continue with this debate simply because we could just keep breaking it down further and further. lol. I hope some more chime in here because alot of gearheads out there dont ever think about this aspect of modifying their vehicles. Vinnie you know where I could find a good comp map on the holset hx35?

[speedfoos]

Agreed on all counts here. Just didn't make sense at first. Pressure = heat and heat = problems if not properly addressed. I run Iridium two-stage colder plugs in my Civic as well. I was running NGK copper plugs (colder again) but the car would have such a problem on warm starts that I swapped to the Iridiums. Damn piggyback dumps too much fuel on starts.

In ref to the Holset map, what are the specs of it? I'll dig around a little in my bookmarks and see what I can come up with for you.

[speedfoos]

Best I've found so far. I got it from here:

http://www.turbomustangs.com/s...40951

[speedfoos]

Here's another one. The pink "Stock" line is the Holset HX35 since it comes stock on 5.9L Dodges.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...s.pdf

[Bigvinnie]

Vinnie you know where I could find a good comp map on the holset hx35?

I've seen alot of ford and dodge diesel owners use it.

Here is a comp map, HX35 at 14PSI....

I believe the HX35 uses a .46 a/r, so it's designed to spool pretty quick for lower rpms....

You could contact sport compact magazine and get a hold of the tuner that did this HX35 set up..http://www.sportcompactcarweb.....html

[nismopu]

You guys ROCK! I did a google search and turned up jack crap, lol! Thanks guys.Yeah tons of guys in the Z car communtiy are using Holsets right now and laying down some impressive numbers. I have all these 440cc injectors laying around, and a few GM ecu's so I should get something going this winter.

[speedfoos]

Here's the actual product page as well. Has all the specs but not the compressor maps.

http://www.holset.co.uk/mainsi...5.php

[nismopu]

yeah, I was checking out that page this morning but was dissapointed to not find the comp. maps.heres my new holset!

Loook how cute that turbine section is, lol!

[Rev_D21]

Cummins turbo diesels use Holset turbos. Caterpillar I see using Garrett. Not much help I know but I know virtually nothing about turboing something that isn't already turbo. The nice part is I have log-ins for both Cummins and Caterpillar parts catalogs so I can reference some numbers as long as people know what they are looking at.

[95hb]

you can put oil squirters on a kae Its modifications like these that simply tell who is serious and who isn't. For improved oiling, piston oil squirters (aka Oil jets) are placed under the pistons to spray oil under it. This also cools the piston and control heat which gives the pistons longer life and improved strength. The KA24E does not come with oil jets. A set of oil jets was removed from the KA24DE, which are equiped with them stock from Nissan. After exploring the underside of the KA24E block, my machinest and I found an oil chamber that ran front to back of the block. Furthermore, the oil chamber had bosses in place for oil jets. Its almost like if Nissan designed the single cam block for oil jets, but at production, changed there mind. The bosses were machined flat to ensure a perfect fit and then holes were drilled and tapped with a 12mm X 1.25 bit set.