Thinking about buying an F50 Q45, or even an M45? Think again.
As I write this, my '05 sits in the shop at Infiniti of Peoria (Arizona) awaiting completion of a new short block installation. Anyone who read my previous threads about my 7200 mile trip last summer will remember how I had hoped running so hard against unusually stiff headwinds for most of the trip would seat the rings and end up improving oil and fuel mileage and power. When I first got the car at 24,000 miles, it was using around a half quart every 3500 miles, or 7,000 miles per quart. That mileage slowly but steadily dropped. On my 7200 mile trip last summer, it used around 3.5 quarts. Before I could do much about it, I had an unexpected triple bypass surgery which kept me occupied for a few months. In November, I complained about oil consumption, and my dealer initiated an oil consumption test. When I brought the car in several weeks ago, it had used well over one quart for 2600 miles. They contacted Infiniti, and were directed to do a compression test and probably (I suspect) a leakdown test, and somehow, they inspected the combustion chambers probably with fiberoptics.
End result was that the car failed all the tests and the top end is full of oil.
Owners, be advised that I fought with Infiniti as far as I could. They were absolutely intransigent and refused to even consider putting a long block assembly in the car. For those who are aware of the status of component replacement, you know that once an engine is assembled and run through several heating and cooling cycles under load, the components take a set. Unbuttoning the motor causes everything to stress relieve. Reassembly, or assembly with different components dooms the motor, and whatever life the motor would have had originally is compromised. Resurfacing or reconditioning the heads does not completely alleviate the situation. That is the case with my car now. I think the worst part is how Infiniti lied to me and claimed the dealership insisted that it only needed a short block and wouldn't do anything else. Contact with the dealership revealed that such was NOT true, that my technician argued with them to authorize a long block assembly (even before *I* demanded that) and Infiniti flat refused. There was a number of phone calls about this, and nothing would change Infintiti's mind. I was getting a short block, period.
There was a time when Infiniti would have done a long block without even being asked to. Their policy was to replace, not repair any failed items under the warranty. Not any more. Worse, the woman I spoke to in Infiniti customer service was snotty and rude.
Be warned friends, that Infiniti is not what it used to be, either in engineeering, production quality, or especially customer relations. Unless you can afford to spend a lot more time working on an F50 Q45 or M45, or afford the repair expense and put up with the drastically compromised life of what has become an automotive failure worse than GM, stay away. I note that even the G series has its own problems. Infiniti has become nothing more than a tarted up Nissan, perhaps not even as good as a regular Nissan due to the added complication and complete change in management mentality.
If you want a true luxury car, buy a Lexus. If you want a true luxury/performance car like the G50 was, you have few choices. One thing is for sure. Whether you like it or not, Infiniti is dead, at least the Infiniti that G50 owners used to know.
This is disappointing news, especially to me as I start to consider what will replace my aging 96Q within the next 2-3 years. I had thoughts of maybe a 2006Q or later M45- but the random engine oil burning issues at low miles, among other reported early component failures{ HID headlamps,starters,wheel bearings,electronics,etc} seem unacceptable to me when compared to the stellar reliability and durability I have experienced with my 96Q currently at 224,000 miles -
The Lexus LS460 is certainly at or very near the top of my list for when the time comes to bury the ole Q.
Infiniti has a 1 quart maximum usage per 1,000 mile standard for the newer high power engines [2.5,3.5,4.5]. It appear you are not consumming enough oil to comply!
Life is hard. Too many pine for the good old days when the world has changed.
Newer Lexus engines have similar problems just not as bad because they didn't stretch the envelope so much.
Most engine oil problems will go away with electric cars.
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Infiniti has a 1 quart maximum usage per 1,000 mile standard for the newer high power engines [2.5,3.5,4.5]. It appear you are not consumming enough oil to comply!
Life is hard. Too many pine for the good old days when the world has changed.
Newer Lexus engines have similar problems just not as bad because they didn't stretch the envelope so much.
Most engine oil problems will go away with electric cars.
Improve your reading comprehension skills. I already stated that the motor failed the compression and leakdown tests, and that heavy oil fouling was found in the top end. I also stated that the Senior Technician at the dealership agreed that I should have been given a long block assembly and asked such of Infiniti even before I brought it up.
Your local Commuinity College may have a remedial reading course. Maybe you can get a discount if you tell them who you are.
Anyone that want to buy this kind of trouble and behavior on the part of a manufacturer is welcome to do so. My post was to state my personal experience and the attitude I was shown by Infiniti. FWIW, I was polite and respectful in my conversation with Infiniti Customer Service. I did NOT receive the same from them.
In closing, I don't care WHAT Infiniti has arbitrarily decreed is acceptable for oil consumption in a modern supposedly sophisticated luxury car. 1,000 miles per quart is ridiculous beyond words. ANY manufacturer that produces very many cars that only provide 1,000 miles per quart of oil will soon find itself at the head of the bailout line, that is if EPA doesn't shut them down first. I know my association with Infiniti is over. Too bad. I used to be one of their biggest boosters, and have convinced a number of family and friends to buy Infiniti. No more.
I also dont accept the "get use to it , the good old days are gone" line- I know plenty of people including family members who have purchased new cars in the last couple of years that dont experience increased oil consumption- both luxury cars, and basic Toyota/Honda models.
Nissan dropped the ball with both the 3.5 V6 and the 4.5 V8 both have oil burning issues......and lets not even bring up their new 3.7 V6 that has so much valvetrain noise/rattle problems, nissan created a special ester motor oil only available at dealers to try to cure it, expecting owners to shell out $11 per quart to quiet down a poorly designed engine, instead of fixing the engine .
When a Honda 1.5 built in 1985 has NO oil consumption issues at almost 300K miles, this tells me there's a real problem.
I went through this a while back with a good friend - She had bought a '94 Mustang that used 3 quarts between Phoenix and Wichita.
The dealership put a crap-ton of miles on the car performing multiple "consumption" tests, during which time she was PAYING for a loaner, and returned the car to her stating it "passed" - no compensation for the hassles, the fuel, the extra miles, the decreased warranty or the loaner.
But there is truth in what Q45tech says. Those 1985 - 1995 Japanese engines were not stressed as much. Materials haven't changed much at all, but design and production processes have, mostly for the worse.
Japanese producers decided they really didn't need to build to the 300K mile standard to compete with the 100K mile German standard. That is if the German electronics last that long.
Read other luxury imiport forums and you will discover they have even worse problems. Lexus comes close, Acura is not much worse, everything else is pretty bad. The Hyundai Genesis may be the best deal out there in a medium (for me) size sedan.
Japanese producers decided they really didn't need to build to the 300K mile standard to compete with the 100K mile German standard. That is if the German electronics last that long.
Yeah, only problem is we are not talking about 300K engines, or even engines with 100k on them- Nissan/Infiniti is having oil burning issues with brand new and extremely low mile engines!!!!
Poor design, period. Lets not make any excuses for them.
You said it failed all the test but in your convoluted document you stated "When I brought the car in several weeks ago, it had used well over one quart for 2600 miles."
Yet you provided no numbers to back up your failed the tests statement. So I used the only numbers you provided.
Obviously Infiniti wasn't impressed either or they would have given you a new engine.
What are you not telling us about documented oil change intervals or some breach in your requirements to maintain warranty?
As you well know Dealers have nothing to do with warranty so what they say is meaningless.
When you have a warranty dispute the legal proceedure is outlined in your warranty booklet. You have already agreed to arbitration when you purchased the vehicle.
Improve your reading comprehension skills. I already stated that the motor failed the compression and leakdown tests, and that heavy oil fouling was found in the top end. I also stated that the Senior Technician at the dealership agreed that I should have been given a long block assembly and asked such of Infiniti even before I brought it up.
Your local Commuinity College may have a remedial reading course. Maybe you can get a discount if you tell them who you are.
Quit being a little b****
Its ridiculous to insult someone's intelligence on an internet forums and it really is a low blow. Perhaps you've never heard of a run on sentence? "Anyone who read my previous threads about my 7200 mile trip last summer will remember how I had hoped running so hard against unusually stiff headwinds for most of the trip would seat the rings and end up improving oil and fuel mileage and power."
Fact: F50's burn oil. You see it all over the forums.
Fact: We are in a recession. Every company is not in their prime. Businesses aim to make money, and if by putting a short block might possibly fix your problem, and is cheaper than the Long Block, can you blame them?
I change my oil every 3,000 miles, what would I care if one quart burns every 2600 miles. In fact, I really could care less if that was happening.
You really think a GM car is far superior to an Infiniti? Heres a review of the 2006 Cadillac CTS - At 20,000 miles started using oil, approx. 2 quarts every 1000 miles, returned car to dealer, was told 1 quart every 700 miles is normal according to Cadillac. Are they serious? Yes they are read owners manual. Cannot wait for lease to end..... Now this might not be every CTS, but for a V6 engine to be burning that much oil, well thats just a little intense. NO AUTOMAKER is immune from problems, not Lexus, not Subaru, not Infiniti.
Oh and the rear of the LS series is really just a tarted up rear from a Camry, which stole that whole trunk inside the rear sort of design from the '04 Maxima. The IS is the only one I'd consider, and driving-wise, it pales in comparison to a 335i.
After climbing the chain and making a call to corporate, Lexus would have replaced the damn engine. Period. There's a reason why Infiniti's former top ranking for owner satisfaction has rapidly declined in the last 8 years.
Your dissatisfaction with your Cadillac dealer (and their lies to you about oil consumption standards) are no excuse for a respected brand like Infiniti to crap on its customers. When people buy Infiniti, they expect traditional Japanese quality and a certain level of performance and luxury. Expectations have been set high, especially for loyal repeat customers with excellent past experiences, so what happens with a GM product is completely irrelevant.
There is no excuse for the way Infiniti treated a good customer and how poorly they designed and built their V8 engine. Period.
For those of you who spend every day on this forum bragging about having having such high standards for car care, you sure make a lot of retarded excuses for Renaulssan's pathetic engineering and customer service.
Quote, originally posted by MinisterofDOOM »
Get out of my gene pool. And take your ES350 with you.
If you want a true luxury car, buy a Lexus. If you want a true luxury/performance car like the G50 was, you have few choices. One thing is for sure. Whether you like it or not, Infiniti is dead, at least the Infiniti that G50 owners used to know.
RIP, Infiniti.
Totally Agree! My father has had numerous F50's. Every one has had oil issues. His last one fried up! What did he do? Got a new Lexus! Also my wife's 2004 3.5 nissan has had chain guide issues. You pratically have to mug the service writers now to get them to listen!!!!!! Any "warranty" work I have sought I have had to go in swinging, and this was WAY before the current financial climate. I'll keep my G50-everything else is going!
Any body is welcome to use my posts for reference as long as they are a warm and friendly person. If you are mean,me and my lawyers will slap you.
Its ridiculous to insult someone's intelligence on an internet forums and it really is a low blow. Perhaps you've never heard of a run on sentence? "Anyone who read my previous threads about my 7200 mile trip last summer will remember how I had hoped running so hard against unusually stiff headwinds for most of the trip would seat the rings and end up improving oil and fuel mileage and power."
Whereupon you proceeded to do exactly what you accuse me of. Since you are only a little kid, it is understandable how you need to resort to name-calling to boot. When you have been around in general, much less around cars a little longer, maybe you will be in a position to speak with authority. Until then, do yourself a favor and keep your obnoxious teenage behavior to yourself. Your little buddies probably think you are cute. We don't. And FWIW, kissing up to Q45Tech won't get you anywhere. You'll learn that soon enough.
I posted a serious issue. Q45Tech came back with one of his usual non sequiturs, and proceeded to take me to task, completely overlooking what I posted. His obnoxious attitude deserved my response to him, and it was on point. Sometimes in his efforts to appear as the only one who knows anything on this forum, he hoists himself on his own petard. Ths happens to be one of those occasions.
In case your own inadequate education has failed you, there ARE times when run-on sentences are appropriate. Maybe you need remedial reading comprehension yourself.
I originated a thread about Infiniti's quality control (to which you admitted yourself), and how I was treated by their Customer Service. Q45Tech responded with insults and irrelevant castigation. When I replied in kind, you jumped in with your own insults and name-calling, listing obvious issues known to most, and in the process, forever leaving your image as one of inanity.
In short, little boy, don't interfere with disputes between your betters. You are neither old enough nor smart enough.
Seems like this energy should be expended on the Infiniti Customer Service Department.
No one else can make this right.
Great idea, except I already thought of that. I DID call them. The woman I spoke with was snotty and rude. she told me I was NOT going to get a long block no matter what I said or did.
I called the dealership. THEY called Infiniti customer Service on my behalf also, and were told the same thing. Funny part is that the woman at Infiniti Customer Service that I talked to insisted that the dealership was the only one that could determine what it needed, that Infiniti couldn't override the dealership.
The fact is my Senior technician requested and recommended a long block in the first place. That was after he had done a compression and leakdown test and examined the combustion chambers (not sure how, probably fiber-optics). He was denied by Infiniti. My Service writer also called and intervened for me. She was turned down too.
The short block is in and completed and the tech is finishing up on the work right now.
Nothing either myself or the dealership said or did had any effect whatsoever. We were both completely blown off by Infiniti, and Infintiti's Customer Service Department wasn't cooperative in the least. In fact, they were obnoxious, and not in the least bit hesitant about letting me know they didn't care what I thought.
At this point, lets just hope the techs installed everything back to the way it was assembled at the factory, without failing to pay attention to the little details of reinstalling all the screws, clips, and fasteners for everything they had to dis-assemble- and didnt scratch/ding fenders, etc.....and that the new short block doesnt end up being a oil burner like the original- a tall order
I would be pissed at the whole ordeal- everytime they touch the car, it seems that some small detail is overlooked or shortcuts have been taken.I absolutly hate taking my car in for service, even simple oil changes provide opportunities for screwups with bellypans,stripped/ missing bolts and such.
At this point, lets just hope the techs installed everything back to the way it was assembled at the factory, without failing to pay attention to the little details of reinstalling all the screws, clips, and fasteners for everything they had to dis-assemble- and didnt scratch/ding fenders, etc.....and that the new short block doesnt end up being a oil burner like the original- a tall order
I would be pissed at the whole ordeal- everytime they touch the car, it seems that some small detail is overlooked or shortcuts have been taken.I absolutly hate taking my car in for service, even simple oil changes provide opportunities for screwups with bellypans,stripped/ missing bolts and such.
Yup, I have my fingers crossed. My tech is a Senior Infiniti tech though, and in fact was a service supervisor before he got tired of telling others to do things right, and went back to wrenching. He knows how fussy I am, and I won't let anyone else touch my car. Still, considering the amount and depth of work involved, there's many a slip that could occur, even with the best of technicians. One thing about him, he never BS's me. He tells me straight, and I trust him. He's been working on my cars for 12 years now, and has always done right by me. Too bad Infiniti doesn't have the same attitude and integrity.
Well, I would write a letter to Infiniti recounting that Service representative's attitude and ask for an appointment with the regional service representative if anything is not perfect.
Time for another road trip after this baby is broken in.
Keep going back if it's not. Keep us posted, I may pass this on to some folks I know (if you don't mind).
Yes, I'll try to do that, but often no matter how hard one looks and checks, problems don't show up right away. I WILL be relentless if problems occur, but it might take a while to know that.
I will keep you all posted. Yes, you may share this with whomever you like. Be my guest, and thanks. Looks like I'm screwed and can't do much about it now, but maybe we can keep others from getting the same treatment. Infiniti needs to get seriously raked over the coals over this to adjust their attitude, if that's even possible. Based on the response I got from Infiniti Customer Service, that may be a fruitless exercise.
Well, I would write a letter to Infiniti recounting that Service representative's attitude and ask for an appointment with the regional service representative if anything is not perfect.
Time for another road trip after this baby is broken in.
Actually, based on the response and attitude I got from the Customer Service rep, she sounded pretty confident that no one was going to override her or do anything about it. Still, it sure won't hurt to send Infiniti a letter recounting what happened. Problem is if I get a personal meeting with a Regional Service rep and he gives me the same attitude I got from the CS rep, despite my recent triple bypass, I might just knock him out. I won't do very well in jail, but I'm hot enough over this that I won't take any more lip without reacting.
Hmmm, break-in. That's an interesting issue considering the circumstances. Not sure how to go about that in this case. I'm used to putting about 500 miles on keeping revs below 4,000 RPM but alternating loading the engine hard then backing off constantly within the rev limits. Then after about 500 miles, Take it out and redline it through the gears at least 5 times in a row, then drive it hard for another 1,000 miles. change oil and then drive it normally.
I'll ask my tech what he thinks unless someone has an informed opinion.
I would also write up a brief synopsis of your entire experience and shop it with your local media.......they are hungry for stories and like to get involved, especially in tough economic times....it gives them a chance to look like heros in their viewers eyes. Television/ Newsprint/ radio...hit them all up with story ideas.
I would be pissed at the whole ordeal- everytime they touch the car, it seems that some small detail is overlooked or shortcuts have been taken.I absolutly hate taking my car in for service, even simple oil changes provide opportunities for screwups with bellypans,stripped/ missing bolts and such.
Everyone here is always telling us to go to the dealer. Are you saying the dealer is NOT good? I'm confused?? I thought these cars were to complicated for the average joe monkey? Or maybe the dealer is really no different except at a few locations around the country they have a decent tech?
Everyone here is always telling us to go to the dealer. Are you saying the dealer is NOT good? I'm confused?? I thought these cars were to complicated for the average joe monkey? Or maybe the dealer is really no different except at a few locations around the country they have a decent tech?
In order, not necessarily, it depends; sometimes yes, sometimes no; yes it seems so; usually true on systems specific to the Q45; correct!
There are only 4 shops that are worthy of even touching a Q45 that is T-3, Jerry Tucker, Keith Vanmeter and Qships96's new shop that he suggested but I forget the name of it.
The only dealers you should trust are the ones with a senior Infiniti technician that's been there since 1989 and was obviously trained at the factory to work on the G50, FGY33 and the F50.
Paul 1993 Q45 Green 11/92 Hybrid of 1990 and 1994 Q45, Soon to be Nissan President Mods done: 1994 auto dimming mirror, 1994 Q45 tweeters, 1994 Q45 trunk net, 1990 Q45 Seat controls and more to come.
Bet there are fewer than 25 remaining Senior Techs who were trained on the G50 back in 1989 in the business still.
Why the conscientious owner will read every post on this site, study the FSM, and monitor any work done on his car. It is required the owner know more than the technician, if possible.
The only dealers you should trust are the ones with a senior Infiniti technician that's been there since 1989 and was obviously trained at the factory to work on the G50, FGY33 and the F50.
So if the senior tech is in his 30's has most likely not been properly trained?
Damn. Truly sorry for your ordeal. The more stories I read like this, the more I contemplate buying a new car. I have the same cursed powerplant in my car. Oil consumption has been less than a quart per thousand miles. Still, even with the Infiniti Elite warranty, it seems if something catastrophic happens a proper repair is not guaranteed. ML
I would also write up a brief synopsis of your entire experience and shop it with your local media.......they are hungry for stories and like to get involved, especially in tough economic times....it gives them a chance to look like heros in their viewers eyes. Television/ Newsprint/ radio...hit them all up with story ideas.
I'd agree with you except for one thing - I don't think many common Americans are too interested in reading a (albeit legitimate) sob story about a gentleman who's 50,000 Infiniti v8 isn't functioning as designed. I can just hear the thousands of "aawwwwwwwwwww, poor guy" now....
Anyway, sorry to hear about it Star. I don't trust new vehicles anymore. I think I'm going to stick with the supras, q45's, preludes, 300z...y'know, the GOOD cars they don't make anymore?
Best of luck man.
PERFECT '00 Anniversary edition Q45 -182k but feels like new. Constantly restoring this car to OEM, with only OEM parts. '99 5.9L Dodge Durango SLT - THE BEAST -Money pit but pulls like no other (from 0-30)
'90 Honda Prelude S, last carb'd honda ever! -still have car after 13 years, but doesn't move (RIP)
"Good judgment comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgment." -Mulla Nasrudin
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