leaving me at around 200 HP probably a little bit less is this correct? I don't know much so just let me know.

Thank you

Basically that 200hp goal you were talking about.....maybe, maybe at the crank if youre lucky. But with just those simple little bolt-ons (I/H/E/ECU).....
i'd say arund 160 to the wheels.

I never had my car dynoed yet, but if i had to venture a guess....id say i have around 165-175 whp.

Hope that helps!

I remember a thread on another forum of dyno proof of 200 crank hp. that basically centered around letting the ka breath, intake header exhaust and dyno tunning with a "chip" and timing changes

WTB: convertible with swap.

If your motor is in good shape, you can get a t3/t4 turbo and get around 230whp on a stock motor at 8 lbs.

Greaser on Freshalloy made a 210whp on a All motor KA, so it can be done.

Your entitled to my opionion!

link? does he have a dyno? what sort of engine management?

but why would you want 210whp when you can have 400whp?

And to the OP I have intake/header(straight pipe)/exhaust, underdrive pulley, lightweight flywheel, cold air intake, BC stage 2 cams, tuned SAFC(for what thats worth) also running z32 fuel filter with advanced timing. I am pushing right about 160whp on an s13, with the torque numbers just a pinch higher.

Yeah, he had a Dyno. It was about 207whp and 200+wtq. Awesome. Check Freshalloy for "greaser" in the KA forums.

From what I remember, it was SOHC pistons, Intake, Custom header, Exhaust, BC v3's, And AEM EMS. He also had ITB, but tested a intake manifold with good results.

Xcessive offers a KA manifold that will wake up the top end, though you will lose low end.

He also droped like 5 grand+ doing it. AEM EMS, race gas, ITB's, just a stupid amount of work and money for... 200 hp..... You can do a 1500 dollar budget turbo build and hit 250ish hp with no problems.

N/A ka is a waist unless your doing a FCW crank build. The ka doesnt want to make power up top because of its half weighted crank.

Is There A Brain Tumor Virus?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/178660

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

I am being honest here dude. You DO have to drop that kind of money. A KA with bolt ons isnt going to get you even 170 hp.

What you guys dont understand is this is NOT a freaken honda. The motor was not built to rev high. It was not designed with a fully counterweighted crank. It has a half counterweighted crank. Basically, what this means is that when the engine is at high rpm operation, crank vibrations and harmonics are really harsh. This eats your power up exponentially as you go up the RPM range. On every Ka dyno you can see this. Your TQ starts to take a serious dive after 5500 rpms, and your hp doesnt climb anywhere nearly as sharply as it would on a FCW motor. (honda, DSM, w/e)

Out of the 100's of Ka24De N/A builds, this is ONE GUY thats got over 200 hp. Everyone else has fallen far short of the 200 hp goal. The idea that your going to be able to duplicate his results without spending as much money as he has is absurd.

If you want to go for a N/A build, i would suggest a SOHC as it has much more room for a more aggressive cam.

Or, get a 1600+ dollar FCW crank for a Ka24de and rock on with your bad N/A self. Build a 10k rev limit head, and hit 300 hp with race gas and high comp pistons.

Completely false. Greaser Made this mch power on 3 things.
Manifold: he used ITB
Cams: More aggressive than JWT and V2's
Tuning: The EMS, and tuning time is what made this cost a lot.

He also had a mild porting job, SOHC pistons (Which he changed to 10.5:1 forged, because the SOHC ones had blowby issues)

You could duplicate his build, and get close with Half the money he spent, and for the Record, my Jwt powered KA redlined at 7000rpm, the same as Greaser's build. No issues. I agree though, a FCW crank would make a world of difference.

Im no expert on his build either, dont get me wrong. Find his build thread and link it so i can take a look again. IIRC, he had a fully built race head. He also had to try time and time again to break the 200 HP mark.

Almost every ka redlines at 7000, i never said there would be any problems. If you dyno it though, you will see what im talking about. TQ takes a hard dive after 5500 RPMs, and HP doesnt climb nearly as quick as it would with a honda. This is your crank vibrations/harmonics robbing power from the engine.

Also, were talking about Dyno HP which is kinda just an abstract number. Every dyno measures hp differently, and is really just a tuning tool. Real HP is measured by trap times+weight of the car at the strip.

Please find these other 200 hp N/A ka build threads and link them to this thread.

What?
Dyno is the basic measuring tool for hp and torque. Times and speeds at the strip are affected by too many variables such as tires and gearing, wind, elevation, driver experience (or lack thereof). Not that they don't have value, mind you, but its just not a good way to judge the quality of an engine by itself. Some dynos measure differently than others, yes, but there are only a few types and they generally will give similar results between same models- Most dynojets will be comparable to each other. Clayton is the only one I can think of that gives statistically different numbers
Yes Greaser spent a lot of time on the dyno and went through several iterations of intake setups (I really just skimmed the thread- he used ITBs and 100 octane) and tuning
http://forums.nicoclub.com/showthread.php?t=186114
I'm looking for the other thread I read yesterday.
There it is:
http://forums.nicoclub.com/sho...24190
I obviously should have stayed out of this whole thing; I see that now.

Here, I'll type it:
http://formus.nicoclub.com/sho...24190

Nope it did it again. well I'm at a loss.
I found the thread by googling "greaser_ ka"
then went to the boardtracker link, and clicked on 200rwhp na ka- that should get you an 8page thread.

Last I heard, without tuning the cams, he was at 187whp. When he gets the cam timing dailed in, expect over 200whp easy.

And greaser didn't even have a race head port job. I kept up with his project, every thread of it.

Iceman makes a point...as far as cheep..its not gona happen..im trying a ka24de N/A build myself...its been nothing but an adventure in finding deals..it can be done thou.....there is an article about a ka24de that was 190ish at the wheels..and then converted to turbo with over 700+ whp..scary....before you turbo man..think about your gaol for the car...are you a drag racer?...then just get headstuds and spray!..cheep hsp!...are you a drifter..you dont need super hps for drifting..just a love for it...or do you touge?..you might want a turbo there for straits and after the corrner..there is alot to think about...allso tuning a cars motor you have to consider what rpm range your tuning for?...low..low to mid..mid to high..high end?..the possibilitys are endless...stay N/A for now..figure out what style you prefer..then upgrade for power later.

thats my advice. Liquid_cool
http://www.myspace.com/liquid_cool_ka24de

If you ask me Greaser was into boosting engines and his concept of head porting was a bit on the excessive side for intake velocity. His engine would of probably made better numbers with just a slight 1 mm port increase to the head. Instead of porting and extruding the crap out of it.
(My Personal Opinion)

You don't need an AEM EMS to make that kind of power, you also don't need race gas. It won't cost $5000. You could probably get away with a 200WHP set up for roughly 3 grand and very little head work needed.

Quote, originally posted by 480sx »

N/A ka is a waist unless your doing a FCW crank build. The ka doesnt want to make power up top because of its half weighted crank.

The KA engine does O.K though. I've made my stock block rev happy to 6500RPM peak power rather than the stock peak power of 5800 rpm just by changing to the N60 MAF and changing the K value that the ecu will think it responds to under load.
Sure a lighter fully counter weighted crank would be better harmonically for that happy rev place and additional HP to about 7000 maybe 8000peak, but me like most people that do NA KA's are just frugal, cheap SOB's .

Dyno tuning isn't abstract .
Dyno tuning machines use an equation to give a statistical average that is based off the 5200/5200 RPM cross over. In reality does any engine truely make a torque and HP crossover at exactly 5200/5200 RPM... NO but it is a guidline to put an engine measurement within the realm to satifactory tune an engine and show comparisons from losses and gains.
If it was abstract there simply wouldn't be any type of mathmatical equation to follow, it would just be all over ther place, well like an abstract painting....

The only variable that I could see as being abstract is drive train degredation losses which are in accurate from car to car.

Greaser ported his head a little more than he needed to which probably cut down on power. With out proper velocity to the cylinders the engine only starves itself as it consumes more fuel on larger injectors, causing more of a choking effect to the cylinder chambers. He could of left the head alone used larger lift and duration cams, possibly even larger valves and would of had better results than that port work he did...

High compression doesn't mean that you should increase port sizes further than what OEM stock sizes has to offer. The design was meant to take care of 2.4 liter displacement, not compression. Velocity flow rates barely change under high compression, infact there less velocity if the cams remain in stock OEM placement because higher compression decreases cc's, so to port the crap out of a head makes no sence to me.. In all; this would mean just more retard to cams where stock placement would be rather than modify and porting a head more than it should be. Since now you need to increase volumetric cylinder efficiency to the highest point of the cam lift and it's duration. Alot of people think that higher compression equals more power with porting wich is just blatant and false information.... Now if his KA could have reved to 10,000 RPM, then I would see why it would be important to port and extrude more than what stock diameter sizes have to offer because then you are multiplying RPM to liter displacement which is what is required for larger diameter port and extruded sizes from stock.

I've helped on a few builds that were just minor.... Let me say this to make it clear MINOR port and polish within 1mm increments and made better numbers on less compression than greasers build...

Forums are all hype man........

Modified by Bigvinnie at 11:17 PM 9/9/2008

I wouldn't use it at all, the design of that manifold is for manifold pressure.
Runners are also to short which would effect high end power and disrupt intake manifold flow.

Personally when the manifold first came out I thought it would be great for an NA application. After further review and insight on reading some books on fluid dynamics my whole reasoning changed from liking it to not liking it..

If the KA had larger displacement and was less rev happy from Bore X stroke, then maybe I would think or consider, it could possibly work better with something like a brian crower 2.6liter stroker kit, but I don't see it working well with stock displacement or higher compression.

I think because the TB and plenum are so large on that excessive manifold you would probably spend months trying to retune your cas and K values, it just seems as if it would actually slow down velocity as it passes through the MAF. Now if you were to use a MAP, I think you could run into problems with calculating manifold pressure if there would even be any, using such a large plenum to it's displacement.

Modified by Bigvinnie at 8:49 PM 9/10/2008

Its a well known fact that dyno hp is not a true reading of HP, and is not set in stone. Each dyno measures HP differently. Sure, comparing one car on a dyno jet to another car on a dyno jet is a good comparison. However, these numbers are not written in stone true hp. A dynos primary purpose is to be a tuning device to let you dial in more power from your engine. The real standard of HP is measured at a track by figuring out what your trap times are compared to the weight of your vehicle. That is the universal standard for measuring hp.

You guys are making it sound like 200 hp is an easy feat with a Ka, when its not at all. Out of EVERYONE who has done a N/A Ka build you'v got one guy whos broken 200 hp, on a dynojet. Dyno jets give you those feel good numbers, put the same car on a mustang dyno and you probably wont be over 200. Seriously, a dyno jet reads way to high for everything. Once again, dyno measured hps are nearly meaningless without a trap time/weight measurement to back them up.

Boost pwns you... 1500 dollar turbo setup for 250 hp or '3000'(id love to see a 3000 dollar 200 n/a build) for 200 hp.

You got a link to your build thread? Id love to read about your FCW crank build. How about a dyno sheet? The only N/A fcw crank build i read about was in a mag, i bet its a blast to drive. Whats your redline?

I know what kit you have. IMO you need to rev that thing out to at least 8500 to get your moneys worth. Most people assume that because its a 'stroker' kit that it will lower the rev limit, however this isnt exactly true. With the beefy rods and only slight increase in stroke, the FCW crank almost demands that you rev it out. N/A power is all about revs.

Depends on the dyno.....
I like to use the mustang dyno with the newest eddy program. Personally I find it to be pretty accurate and when you look at the cross over, it will try to calculate and more accurately detail where the true engine cross over should be at boreX stroke of an engine, (all engines rotate at different rates of speed so there is no way an engine truely has a cross over at 5200/5200 RPM).

Like I said 5200/5200 is a mathmatical formula but no engine do to engine displacement, BORE X STROKE will always fall at 5200/5200 cross over, all engines are different.

Now most dynos take a torque factor and multiply by it's RPM at 5200...
My Torque numbers seem pretty realistic for how pig rich my engine was at it's given RPM, which ius less than a stock KA, changing K value with a 12:6.1 A/F ratio put my KA at peek power at a higher RPM, it's really a simple calculation. Changing K value using an N60 for an N62 MAF plug in showed my relative torque numbers....
A KA can make peek power past 6000RPM, and I'm proof of it.

Theoretically dyno jets are over rated and inflate HP numbers, so do dyno paks. I like mustang dyno's because those systems inflate a larger degredation loss which would make it more realistic for real time driving conditions. Mustangs also use braking resistance to calculate those degredation losses.
I find any other dyno on the market to be over rated, and for years the people that sell the hype that dyno jets and dynopaks are accurate are selling the use of this equipment themselves.

Sure there could be an over inflation of dyno numbers from dynop to dyno like at about 3% but how much does that really matter to call it abstract. BTW these A/Fr's are pretty accurate, I used an LM-1..

I will once I get everything squared away. First it still needs to be tuned to Minnesota's 92 octane (currently tuned on Chicago 93 and using octane booster with every tank- its not a dd anyway now, so its not too expensive), but I figured why bother doing that before getting an intake manifold to really take advantage of the higher revs. Currently, the power still drops after 6500rpm or so- therefore not worth revving past it.