Fabricated oil pan interest

[tmorgan4]

After seeing the fiasco Nick is going through with his oil pan, and the fact that both Ben (T45) and my own modified factory VH oil pans leak slightly, I'm toying with the idea of designing some completely fabricated oil pans.

The oil pan setup used on the Q45s was obviously designed around the chassis and doesn't seem to work well in most of the cars people are putting them in now whether it's a 300zx, S13/S14, Pathfinder, or whatever other car you choose. Whether it means modifying the front sump for more clearence, taking off the bulge on the driver's side (what I did), or making it a rear sump it seems like it may be easier to start off from scratch. Seems one of the biggest issues here is the flange is SO thin that much of any welding wants to warp it. It's really too thin to be resurfaced after the welding.

Another member on here already went through the work of designing the oil pan flange, so all that needs to be done is to design the new pan. I need a new pan on mine, and I'm toying with the idea of going to a rear sump. It fits my chassis perfectly with the front sump, but I'm scared to death of oil starvation issues.

Would it be worth designing these pans for other people? The possibilities would be endless. Even the drain plug could be put where ever the heck you want it.

[Chrispy300]

I'd pay for GOOD plans to make one for a 450ZX (private use only). Cad drawing would be nice. I can get it made here, not much point getting it shipped over.

[tmorgan4]

That is very true. I tried to open my copy of Solidworks but it looks like my 2-year student license just expired. If I can't figure out Autodesk Inventor I'll have to get another Solidworks license.

What kind of sump does a 450Z require?

[T45]

It has been done both front and rear. I like the rear just because it fits perfectly. I'm not sure you could design a one-fits-all rear sump but it would be really nice. I wouldn't worry about the rear sump and starvation, I believe my issues were not in the rear pickup at all.

[Bart]

You could get the sump flange laser cut out of quarter inch steel or aluminium plate. That’s what I should have done but I used the original flange and cut the rest off.To minimize warping you should talk to a good fabricator, there are welding techniques which will minimize warping, but you must bolt the flange/pan on an engine block.

[Chrispy300]

What kind of sump does a 450Z require?

Rear sump for the 450.

[Bart]

Rear sump for the 450.

Rear pan but how deap and how wide, you have to consider deep because if its too deep you will struggle getting the engine in, (when the engine goes in on an angle the sump if too deep will hit the cross member and the top of the motor, the intake manifold will hit the firewall) so you wont go in any further, this is the problem i had.

[npez]

After seeing the fiasco Nick is going through with his oil pan, and the fact that both Ben (T45) and my own modified factory VH oil pans leak slightly, I'm toying with the idea of designing some completely fabricated oil pans.

I'm in depending on how you price them. The rear sump would be great, I'm just concerned with the clearance requirement between the pan and the crossmember. I have my engine in pretty low so the pickup tube would need to be pretty "snug" to maintain my engine height. I can give you dimensions for mine if you need them. PM me and let me know if you want to do one for me and what you think you'll want to make it happen - also let me know if you'd be going aluminum or steel. I'm kinda pressed for time as with the situation I'm in now I can't move on (and I really-really want to) without the pan.

Thanks,Nick.

[tmorgan4]

For some reason I hadn't even considered aluminum since the factory one is steel. Why is the factory pan steel and not aluminum?

The only issue is that I have never in my life welded aluminum. I'm picking up this TIG pretty quickly though...just need some seat time to practice. Even if we got these designed and cut then someone with a little experience could weld them.

If you have some dimensions on hand I'd love to get my hands on them and try and get a model laid out.

[npez]

For some reason I hadn't even considered aluminum since the factory one is steel. Why is the factory pan steel and not aluminum?

The only issue is that I have never in my life welded aluminum. I'm picking up this TIG pretty quickly though...just need some seat time to practice. Even if we got these designed and cut then someone with a little experience could weld them.

If you have some dimensions on hand I'd love to get my hands on them and try and get a model laid out.

Not sure why they were steel .vs. aluminum could be tooling or 1000 other things. I believe the VH41s had an aluminum pan though. When I get the car back in the air I'll take some measurements and post them up here. BTW - I don't care either way on the steel .vs. aluminum, I just need to get a pan made that will clear everything, not leak and allow me to continue with the build.

Thanks,Nick.

[Bart]

Dont forget it must be TIG welded or Oxy Accetalene, but preferably TIG

[tmorgan4]

I just picked up a very very nice TIG. Just need to learn how to use it.

Just waiting for the last 3 gigs of Autodesk Inventor to finish downloading and I will start playing with designs.

[Mettler]

The VH41 sump is aluminium, and really damn thick/strong. Wouldn't be surprise if it offered a tiny bit of additional structural strength to the motor... but I'm also concerned about the cracking risk with having the motor mounted quite low. The sump on mine for example, sits slightly lower than the crossmember. Will prob have to reinforce it. Otherwise, it's a nicely designed sump!

[tmorgan4]

Interesting...I wonder why they decided to make the sumps out of different materials? Do the 41s also use a front sump similar to the 45?

[Bart]

I just picked up a very very nice TIG. Just need to learn how to use it.

Just waiting for the last 3 gigs of Autodesk Inventor to finish downloading and I will start playing with designs.

What sort of TIG did you get, im hunting for one at the moment and want to get a good one, preferably 3 phase

[tmorgan4]

I got a Miller Dynasty 200dx. I ended up going with a water cooled torch setup since I'd heard it's the way to go. This machine is pretty amazing so far. The guy at the race shop across the street has the same machine and cooler setup (Weldtec torch and water cooler) and talked me into it by saying how far superior it is to the Syncrowave they also have.

This machine is so small that it's perfect and you can plug it into anything from 110V-460V. I haven't had a chance to play with it using 220V yet so it blows the breaker on anything over 110 or so amps.

These inverter machines are so far ahead in technology. I haven't even played with half the settings on it yet but it seems to be infinitely adjustable in just about every way. It would be nice to have more than 200 amps at times, but I figured if the pro fabricator at a race shop gets away with this machine, so can I.

If you have any questions I'd be happy to help. I was very confused on TIG setups since there is a lot more parts than a MIG but it all makes sense once you have everything in your hands.

[Bart]

CoolI was going to go for a single phase 200 amp setup but im thinking now i should get a 3 phase 315 amp, the 200 amp has a bit of trouble with half inch aluminium but great with 2 or 3mm

[tmorgan4]

Made a little progress designing a rear sump pan to fit my Pathfinder but I'm struggling a little on getting the ideas out of my mind and into my CAD program. I seem to get further every day though....

Nick if you happen to come up with any dimensions I would like to see how they compare to mine.

[npez]

Nick if you happen to come up with any dimensions I would like to see how they compare to mine.

I've got some dimensions written down, but I'm not sure if they will help you or not. I've got to go with a front-sump arrangement on mine as I don't believe I have enough clearance (<3/4") between my rack and the windage tray to run the pickup tube, without sitting the motor higher. I picked up a non-VH oilpan to steal it's side kickout but still clear the Q p/s pump (this replaces the existing small kickout). Doing this I can keep all the baffling of the Q pan and with a near vertical (90*) drop from the rear of the pan (to clear the crossmember) to the front sump, it will make it very difficult for the oil to move back off the oil pickup during acceleration.

According to my calculations this arrangement with the modified kick-out yields approximately 360 cubic inches (6.2 quart) capacity. I can still post the dimensions here but I wanted you to be aware that all the clearances are specific to my Z setup with the engine sitting as low as it can go.

My two cents is that if you're willing to sit the motor higher (at least on a Z) you will be able to do larger kick-outs in a rear-sump arrangement and will have approximately 1.25" more room behind the crossmember than you do in the front. In this arrangement you can yield closer to 7-7.5 quart capacity.

Thanks,Nick.