my vh45 s13 project!

[Carl H]

well some of you know me as the rb forum mod here on nico and while i do have an s14 with a highly modded rb20 in it i decided that i needed a summer project as well as a car that would get better gas mileage than my current car does (20 city, 25 highway 720cc injectors pwnzed).so here she is not much but definately on a budget...plan to have it all said and done for less than 2k$

so heres what I've done thus far to the car/engine.engine:1990 vh45de unknown mileage new timing chain guides (bank one was in the pan)new gasketsspray bombed valve coversjust general clean up

chassis:1991 240sx se coupe w/ working hudawesome faded to hell maaco paint job (with paint chipping action when heat is applied!)decent interior but gross carpet

I'll post up a running tally on parts and total cost but the chassis was 500$ and the engine and all accessories needed to make it run was 250$.

[Yellow4g63]

Sweet I want to see this!

[npez]

Looking forward to see how it turns out - Good Luck with the project!

Nick.

[Mettler]

Awesome! This thread is relevant to my interests :p

[mott6904]

Awesome project. How difficult is doing the swap? What kind of power will it make? Make kind of transmission? I cant wait to see this thing up and going.

[craigztoyz]

I had a silver one like that 3 years ago I wanted to put this motor in, but thought it was too tight. Wish I had done it, Looks like a good project, enjoy..

[Florida240sx]

Carl you got my number? I'm looking for the vh45de right now to start my swap. And waiting on wes with the adapter plate.You going z32 5spd?I just got my truck as a daily and parts getter

[Carl H]

actually im going hybrid bellhousing and using the ka trans...no sense in spending 500-800$ on a z32 trans setup if the ka box can hold 300ftlbs of torque just fine and it comes with the car, also like i said the target of this car is budget (but not ghetto).

shoot me an email w/ your number.

[SuperHatch]

Very Cool... I've had 2 S13 coupes in my past, still wish I had one of them. This'll be a great project, can't wait to see the results...

[Neejay]

Niiiice. Subscribed for updates. This should be interesting.

[Jeff Taylor]

Nice paint scheme!

You can still get good gas mileage on 720cc injectors if it's tuned well.

[Carl H]

yeah i know i was getting 30mpg with the 550s i had in the car before i jumped to 720s...I sat down and did the math...660's would support 22psi/450hp just fine and should get better mileage.even at 14:1 afr on the highway it still sucks down gas.

Nice paint scheme!You can still get good gas mileage on 720cc injectors if it's tuned well.

[Carl H]

a bit more progress with the engine...bout to bolt the intake mani on for good and then refit the accessories, will be retaining the q45 alternator as it is 110a vs the std s13 80a terrible.



also began to convert to 5 lug, fitted my hybrid hubs and j30/q45 front brakes to stop this thing...everyone knows std brakes are terrible on the s13.check out this link zerothread/346514 for info on the hybrid front hubs.will be fitting q45 5lug rear/lsd soon as i have time to go back to the junkyard and pull them.

[hannibal]

actually im going hybrid bellhousing and using the ka trans...

More info on this please...

[Carl H]

aaaaaaaannnnnndddd back from the dead!after a 4 week wait for a clutch and flywheel that never materialized I decided to reorder a different clutch kit and flywheel set for the car.Got this kit off of ebay for 320 shipped, appears to be good quality and decent stuff:Note baggie of arp bolts not included with auction.clutch kit is for a z32 na and is rated at 390ft/lbs torque, more than enough headroom for the vh's rated 280 ft/lbs.

So came time to test fit the flywheel, and to my suprise worked quite well dispite the center hole bore being the same size as the vh's crank...nothing a quick hit with a sanding drum couldnt fix and it cleaned up bore nicely with still proper clearance.



what i had feared would happen did, and this is because i am choosing to use the ka trans and the block mounted starter, the flywheel is spaced too far out for the starter teeth to engage due to the z32 trans having a trans mounted starter.



after taking a break and looking at several different sr flywheels i came to the conclusion that about 5mm of material needed to be removed from the machined spacer of the flywheel...nothing a machine shop cant fix, decided to keep a 1mm 'step' to keep crank mounting directly in line with the flywheel ring gear.I suspect that an sr20det kit will bolt right on with no issues but most sr kits are not capable of holding the vh's torque output, i also suspect that the z32 pp and clutch disc can be used on an sr flywheel but i have no way of verifiying this.

a common problem among nissan auto to manual swaps is the fact that some people overlook the fact that the autotrans converter bearing must be removed in order for a proper manual box bearing to be fitted, unfortunately i do not have a pic of this but it can be clearly seen in the crank pictures of the flywheel.

here is a picture of the manual pilot bearing and the auto converter bearing side by side:

here is the crank with the auto converter bearing removed:

and here is a picture of the crank with the manual bearing fitted:

as you can see there are differences in the diamaters of the bearings the auto one is slightly smaller than the manual's outer, so you need to remove this regardless, no need to grind down the manual pilot bushing to fit the auto bearing just remove the auto bearing.

thats it for now while the flywheel is turned, engine and trans will be comming out of teh s13 this weekend so look for an update then.

[midnightsliding]

nice updates. cant wait to get to this part of my build.

[tmorgan4]

I tried to line up the Q45 starter with my Z32 flywheel and ran into the same issue! That was frustrating. I just assumed they would be spaced out the same distance.

[Carl H]

a bit more progress today, even tho the weather was terrible (100% humidity and 90* heat with drizzles off and on) we were able to pull the ka (bleh) out of the shell...closer inspection only further proves previous owner was quite possibly mentaly retarded; im not sure how he broke some stuff that was in there, but luckily it wasnt stuff i needed.

fruits of my labour thus far:

fellow nico fourm member and good friend Bronze MFP showing us whats up:

next step was to refit the dust sheild for the time being to make sure that everything was kosher and to give an accurate measurement for spacing of the trans to block...easy here.

We also made sure that the engine was as level as possible to ensure good mock fitment, i ASSUME that in the q45 that the engine sits level but some clarification would be great so i dont cut and weld only to find out that its wrong...we also test fitted the trans and low and behold it slid right on with very little effort or issue.



After fitting the trans i realized that it wasnt being driven home all the way, after much inspection it appeared that the vh crank while drilled for a manual pilot bushing was not drilled deep enough for the ka input shaft, measuring the gap between the trans and the dust sheild yeiled a measurement of approx .14". i then measured out .16" on the dial caliper and proceded to cut and grind down the appropriate ammount of material adding a taper for guidance when done; came out nicely and trans slides home with no effort now.

gap between bellhousing and trans:

modifying the input shaft:

modified input shaft, fits perfectly!

fitment against block, spot on...



the final task at hand is to figure out how to level the trans, i had guessed that the trans was tilted approx 5* and measurement showed it was tilted 6*, damn im good.also dont mind the fisher-price protractor, my good one seems to have gone missing...drilling a new 'pilot' hole allows for the trans to be leveled but will be cut out when i begin to section the trans...that is currently in planning stages.

backside shot of the assembly:

enjoy hopefuly i'll have an update monday on the flywheel and clutch install then its engine mount time!

[Bronze MFP]

I just want to clarify, I do like the KA... in boosted form. the one carl pulled today that im giving the big ol thumbs down too was crusty, rusted out, and had things growing on and nesting in it. I jokingly said we should turbo it and throw it in my z31. I was half serious. But honestly if this vh swap turns out good... the z might see one as well. vg30et, ka24det, or vh45de. all can make good power. the vh just does it well out of the box. add boost and OMGWTFBBQ?!!!!!!

[koukicody]

subscribed. great work as always Carl!

[Carl H]

a bit more progress...perhaps finalized transmission stuff tommorow!picked up the flywheel from the machine shop with the 'spacer' ground off of it...50$ .

after bolting the flywheel up and finding that it was fouling on the oilpan i realized that i ether a) had to buy a new flywheel or b) reuse the vh spacer from the flexplate...i chose 'b' as im a bit broke at this point; ended up working out ok tho with just the right clearance for decent starter engagement of the ringgear as well as clearance from the back of the block.

Now what sucks about using arp hardware is it might be fine if you're using a stock flywheel or otherwise un modified but since i decided to go with the arp honda clutch cover bolts as well as the pinto flywheel bolts i had to grind down the flywheel bolts since they were now too long and tap all the way thru the back of the flywheel...either way it sucked to the nth due to the flywheel being 'chrome moly' and the arp bolts being chrome moly 4rlz, gotta love metals that work harden.

about 3 threads removed:

used some brakeclean to clean all the bolts of grease and dirt and installed the flywheel with some locktite blue, torqued flywheel to 69ft/lbs and the clutch cover to 33ft/lbs.flywheel bolted on:

final assembly:

the z32 flywheel is significantly larger than the stock ka, which doesnt make too much sense since the z32 clutch fits on the rb20/25 flywheel wich will bolt to the ka...no idea why but it is what it is, so the inner bellhousing required some clearancing to refit to the engine, however i dont have pictures of that as i called it a night.stay tuned for tommorows update and with any luck a completed hybrid bell housing!

[elwesso]

Nice Carl, really coming together, frankly a lot quicker than I expected... Good luck, and I think once you get past this hybrid transmissions stuff the rest is going to be ""simple"" engine swap.

[Neejay]

I really wish I had the means to do custom jobs like this.

Good job man.

[SuperHatch]

after bolting the flywheel up and finding that it was fouling on the oilpan i realized that i ether a) had to buy a new flywheel or b) reuse the vh spacer from the flexplate...i chose 'b' as im a bit broke at this point; ended up working out ok tho with just the right clearance for decent starter engagement of the ringgear as well as clearance from the back of the block.

It's funny carl. I had the exact same issue with my custom flexplate. The flexplate itself fit great, but the torque conveter bolt heads were catching the corners of the oil pan. I ended up ordering new ARP hardware with low profile bolt heads. I'll still need to do some grinding on the block (maybe 0.100") to get sufficient clearance, but I guess this is the price we pay for going custom.

Either way, looks great, can't wait to see the finished product.

[maxnix]

actually im going hybrid bellhousing and using the ka trans...no sense in spending 500-800$ on a z32 trans setup if the ka box can hold 300ftlbs of torque just fine and it comes with the car

A properly tuned VH45DE with a JWT or NICO ECU will produce about 330 ft. lbs. at the flywheel.

[craigztoyz]

I had same problem with my flywheel, and with the clutch. The Honda DOHC clutch bolts are 3 threads too long so put a nut on and got out the cutoff wheel.

I like how it's coming along. Keep us updated.

[l0nestar]

I can only assume that you removed the last bit of threads sticking up, didn't you? Good work man!

... And what is with you NC guys and wearing sandals while working on cars? wear some shoes or work boots!!! Geeze!

[Carl H]

lawlz, i have a year round flop tan from wearing flipflops everywhere...only time i don shoes is when its 30* outside or raining or both!so i started sectioning the bellhousing yesterday and got two of the 3 sections done today, comming along quite nicely if i may say so.as far as the welding goes, yes the welds are kinda messy and gross but they were done as right as you can with a mig welder using argon gas and with the voltage and wire speed cranked; even with immaculate cleaning i was still getting nasty splatter and erratic arc on some welds.name of the game i suppose, i'll proly have a friend go over the welds with his tigwelder before it gets bolted on for good, welds are strong and holding so i should be good on that front.the z32 flywheel BARELY clears the inside of the bellhousing, there are some high spots that i need to shave down more material but that will be done before i button up the trans for good.some pics of the current progress thus far, 3rd and final section should go on tommorow with any luck.

first section of the bellhousing, most important as it will locate the trans for the rest of the mouting...

trans bolted on awaiting second section, alignment is still good.

second section and modified bellhousing, notice large gaps from differences in bellhousing diamaters.

quick shot of the ringgear and one spot on the trans that needs more grinding for good clearance.

second section welded along with first section:

trans bolted to engine, she's quite snug and fits well...

all welds were reinforced from the back as well, so dont worry there.did i mention that i hate welding aluminum?on a side note i also got this awesome sunburn from welding, for those who dont know when you weld it generates a shistload of uv radiation, its akin to having your arm 6 inches from the corona of the sun...

thats it for now, hopefuly final section will go on tommorow and testfitting will begin this weekend.

[Jeff Williams]

Looks good!

Welding aluminum is not so bad, but the gaps you are filling are huge!

[elwesso]

holy crap carl thats intense, good work!