Buying a Vert next weekend, where should I look for rust?

[twistedsymphony]

ok so now that I've sold my spare S14 I'm considering buying an S13 convertible.

I found a nice looking one, and I've set up an appointment to look at it next Saturday (since it's a 3 hour drive from where I am) it's got fresh paint but that has me somewhat worried about why It needed fresh paint.

This will be my first S13 so I'm not too familiar with where S13s typically rust. I've heard people mention to look for the "typical rust spots" but no where have I found where those spots are...

So when looking at an S13 where should I look to ensure that the whole car is as clean as the paint?

places I'm already planning on checking closely:-rocker panels-wheel wells/inside fenders-frame rails-windshield channel-strut towers-under the back seat

anywhere else?

FWIW this is the car:

it's freshly painted and while it looks fantastic it's got 160K miles and I just want to make sure it's not a polished turd...

Bad Things I noticed from the pictures-wires under the passengers floormat = really poorly installed stereo-lid on the center console painted blue???-sliding latch on radiator support looks like it doesn't belong + it's rusted pretty bad-headers have oodles of surface rust.-not sure if the seat covers were pre-emptive protection against wear or used to cover up excessive wear

Thanks
Modified by twistedsymphony at 5:12 PM 6/2/2008

[DeXteR]

In addition to those places, check the lip of the trunk where it sits above the lights. Also, look down where the hydraulic rams are for the top operation - just behind the door. You should be able to get a decent look down into the rear fenders/rockers with a flashlight to see if there's any rust in there. That's typically why the rockers rust out at the back. Try to get a look at some of the suspension as well. It's hard to cover up the corrosion of original suspension parts.

Header looks like crap because it's probably old mild steel. Exhaust gases are extremely corrosive and extremely hot - not kind to thin-walled, mild steel headers.

[twistedsymphony]

thanks for the tip...

what's your impression of the car from what you see? anything that worries you?

what would you think this car is worth if it's as clean as it looks?

[Hijacker]

I can't view the pics you linked,

but you seem to have most of the usual rust spots zoned in already. Another area I like to look at is the rear of the rear wheel wells. Sometimes they hold water in the fender lip and start to form rust bubbles under the paint. It's an easy fix if you tackle it when it's surface rust. If you wait it out, it'll turn into a replacement project easily

S13 frame rails on the undercarriage seem to take a beating. In the past 5 years, I've worked on one S13 that had perfect frame rails. A lot of times, water collects in the frame rail, especially if it the drain holes were clogged with debris, and moisture seeps in between the rail layers (they're double walled). Then the frame rail starts to rust up completely. The best solution is to cut it out and replace with good old fashioned 1/4" steel.

One other place I tend to see rust accumulate is the unibody part of the front wheel wells. The front of the fender liners come loose and get torn up by the tires. Then water/leaves/debris/etc get packed into the rear of the fender liner and start to rust out the bottom of the unibody behind the wheel.

For some reason, I always see that last one happen on the passenger side. Rarely the driver side.

If teh top on the car is original, expect to see some moldy buildup around the rear window. Only garage kept, low mileage verts seem to avoid that particular problem. Also, at this age, either the rear window is completely yellowed out or it's been replaced

Don't be surprised if the interior trim on the top of the windsheild frame is sagging/broken. They seem to go bad and start to crack and fall apart.

Same thing about the door panels. Crappy plastic doesn't hold up well to vibrations and they break off. Also, the door clips aren't standard nissan, so if they're broken (which they probably are) expect the door to be held in with screws.

The doors are extremely heavy due to the seatbelts and bracing. I've seen plenty of verts with shot door hinge bushings and pins because of this. So don't be surprised if the door has some play in it. Also, the latch anchor on the unibody tends to loose its nylon bushing quickly, which leads to play when closed and the interior lights may flicker when you go over bumps.

[twistedsymphony]

too bad you can't see the pics... the top was replaced completely a year or two ago according to the seller and it looks it, the back window is crystal clear. I also don't detect any cracking or sagging on the plastic at the top of the window from the pictures, but there are no close up shots so we'll see when I get there.

The interior looks to be in fantastic shape, even the door inserts look clean and solidly attached to the doors. there isn't even any scuff marks on the lower front of the door panels where they usually get kicked (heck even I accidentally scuff mine up getting in and out of my S14) ... I just realized that I didn't post any of the pictures that show the door panels. I got 3 times as many pictures as I posted, but only posted what I felt to be the most relevant ones.

it's also got factory mud flaps so hopefully that has kept the inside fender liners from pulling up and rotting from the inside out.

[Hijacker]

The problem with the fender liners is that the front of them come loose at some point. Then the debris can move over the top and get lodged in the rear of the wheel well. The mudflaps do nothing to prevent that unfortunately.

One last place I forgot to mention to expect some rust is the brace behind the rear seat. For some reason or another, I see a lot of verts have that get some surface rust on it. It's easily fixable with a wire wheel and some rustoleum.

[DeXteR]

The front of the rocker panels (behind the front wheel) also tend to get the junk and moisture trapped behind the liner. I'm not sure if Bart mentioned that or not.

[twistedsymphony]

oh I understand now...

I'm not sure how acceptable it is to go tearing apart a car, pulling up the rear seat a bit is ok I think but pulling of the fender liners would be a bit much.

[Hijacker]

That's what I'm talking about. I call it the wheel well since the rocker panel ends about 3 inches before where the junk builds up.

[DeXteR]

One other place if you're going to be super picky - inside the fender below the antenna. Moisture accumulates in there from the antenna and the drain hose. You might want to pull the trunk liner on that side (also where the emergency jack is stored) and reach down the fender to see if there's any moisture, corrosion, or debris built up in there.

Isn't there a sticky with this stuff in it? I'm getting deja vu here...

[twistedsymphony]

the sticky in this forum on buying advice just says "typical s13 spots" which doesn't really help me.

if there is a sticky in another forum I didn't see it.

[krash]

Isn't there a sticky with this stuff in it? I'm getting deja vu here...

Yea dex, you should shove this stuff in the sticky. I didnt know enough about the rust to write about it.

[jspec603]

Wow, that looks like a really clean vert! Glad to see another person from NH gettin into the vert scene. If you do end up getting this car this weekend, you should def come to our group drive/meet on the 28th of this month. The details are linked in my sig. My buddy DJButton claims about 25 cars thus far. Good luck with your purchase! Hope to see you on the 28th!

[twistedsymphony]

oh wow... I had no idea there was a meet this month. I was at the swap/BBQ meet at DJButton's house a few months back... that was a good time.

even if I don't pick up this vert I'll be sure to clear my schedule for that meet and cruise along in my s14...

I've got pictures of that car here: http://solid-orange.com/cars/1995-nissan-240sx-se

[jrb240]

seems to me like the car may have been hit in the front. The rusty hood latch and chalk markings on the air intake tube look to be from a junkyard. Typically they mark their parts with these kinds of random letter number combinations to keep up with them in their computer.

[DeXteR]

Yea dex, you should shove this stuff in the sticky. I didnt know enough about the rust to write about it.

I don't have that kind of authorization...

[jspec603]

seems to me like the car may have been hit in the front. The rusty hood latch and chalk markings on the air intake tube look to be from a junkyard. Typically they mark their parts with these kinds of random letter number combinations to keep up with them in their computer.

I'll have to disagree. If you look closer at the marks on the intake tube, it says -52* on 10/98. That looks more like a coolant test done back in 98. As for the rusty hood latch, thats not the latch. The latch is on the front the the rad. support. That looks more like a rusty dead bolt for a door in a house or garage. Why it would be under the hood? Dunno. lol

Also looks like that car has some sketchy wiring under the hood too. Hope that it does not have andy battery drains froma crappy alarm or what not. Mine did, was annoying as hell.

[twistedsymphony]

yeah I think that wiring under the hood is part of an alarm... I think that's also what the door latch thing is... it looks like a hood sensor.

sketchy wiring doesn't bother me... I do wiring in my sleep all day long and I do it RIGHT to the point that would make a pro audio installer look like a hack.... shady frames and engine problems DO bother me though.

[Topless_92]

Sweet seat covers

[Harman850T5]

I don't know if this was said yet, but the battery tray may have some rust too. That's the only rust spot on mine, which will be solved by a battery relocation and some cutting.

[jspec603]

I don't know if this was said yet, but the battery tray may have some rust too. That's the only rust spot on mine, which will be solved by a battery relocation and some cutting.

Sorry to thread jack. If your gonna take out the batt tray, get yourself a spot weld cutter. They work great and you don't end up destroying the sheetmetal.