A little background: I'm not "in the business" (I'm in the technology field actually) so there is that delicate balance that I need to maintain between family (wife and 2 kids), work, and my passion for cars. The negative is that I can't devote all of my time to my hobby, but the possitive is a supportive wife (enjoys kicking the tail out at 45MPH) and a job that can fund all the stuff I need to do to make all of this possible. Much of the hard core fab work (welding, engine building, etc.) I leave to the experts. Anything electrical/electronic, intermediate mechanical, etc. I can do or can learn to do myself. I've done 1 other engine conversion in the past so I have a little experience there. With all that said, here's the plan.

My project is a 93 300ZX Twin-Turbo receving a 94 VH45 motor after a freak catastrophic bottom end failure on the VG30DETT at 76K miles. The project will take a multi-phase approach (like others on NICO) consisting of a base setup and then something more; in my case a twin-turbo setup. The car is intented to be a strong GT street (occasional track) car and I will do everything I can to maintain that balance - I am not looking to build a race only vehicle. The basic idea is:

Phase I - Get the car running normally aspirated
Engine - Purchased - craigztoyz helping me with engine mount and oil pan fab
Transmission - Mazworx Adapter to VG MT - Purchased - Planning on using existing RPS Cyn-R-G lightweight flywheel and RPS clutch.
Fuel - Will use stock TT fuel pump and VH injectors. Sorting out bending fuel lines to the LH side of engine bay to better integrate with Zs setup. Craig excellent suggestion
Electrical - Sorted out and in process of soldering "sister" harness to use z ECCS/EGI, etc. relays, fuel pump controller, etc. into VH EFI harness - posted integration document on forum.
Other - HICAS Delete - Reuse HICAS high-pressure lines along the frame rails as oil feel & return for turbos in Phase 2.

Phase II - Bring on the boost - Goal: Reliable 500-600RWHP (based on initial calculations about 14-18psig)
Engine - Rebuild with 8.5 or 9:1 CR forged ceramic/moly coated pistons and stronger rods
Turbos - TBD - Rear mounted Twin-Turbo intercooled setup; researching turbo sizing based on NICO members experiences, Garrett website as well as Corky Bell's book. Not sure if I will be able to integrate my B&B exhaust after the turbos or if it will restrict airflow.
Intercooler - TBD - Leaning on air to water setup possibly with A/C suction side integration
Oil Cooler - Re integrate Calsonic TT oil cooler (bigger if needed)
Fuel - Have a set of new 555cc NISMO injectors I purchased for the VG30DETT. Will either buy 2 more or if deemed too small (which I think they are) will sell and bump up to higher capacity ones.
Cooling - Install Z1 motorspors ultimate cooling package (Howe Radiator, Flex-a-lite fan, etc.) I purchased for the Z
Engine Management - TBD - Leaning towards factory ECM and adding a romulator
Other - Will need to sort out MAF choking at this level of boost as well as other issues as they come up.

I am trying to break this down to many small projects to make it happen but I still believe phase 2 is still 9 months to a year away from phase 1 completion. The strategy is to design the systems and purchase all the parts (3-6 months) and then take 3-6 months to integrate/install. I'll post pics of the progress soon. For now I've posted some pictures of the car pre-failure at the track.

If there is something you see in my thinking that you believe is unreasonable/unattainable please let me know as my goal/objectives are flexible at this point and easier to adjust at this juncture verus when all the parts are bought and/or fabbed.

Your input as always will be greatly appreciated.

Nick.

Here are some pictures of the car at Texas World Speedway and yes that is my wife in one of the pictures (she wanted to drive as well) - this event was a total blast!:

I'm a believer in the rear mount turbo setup so you have my vote there. Here's a link to my excel spreadsheet for turbo selection, I used the information from the Garret web site tutorials to make it. For twin turbos you just use 1/2 the displacement and HP goal. Sheets 2 and 3 of the spreadsheet also have information on them as well. It gives you a total of 9 horsepower examples when your plug in your data.

This is the blank one...
http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...2.xls

This one has the data from my car in it, VH45DE '94 Q45. If you just half the engine displacement to 137 cubic inches and 1/2 the horsepower desired on this one you could use it for your application. Just use two of the turbo's you select and double the horsepower calculation for the end result. Maybe I should make a new page for twin turbo calculation...hmm.
http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...l.xls

For the MAF you have a couple options that come to mind. since you are using twin turbos you could use twin MAFs either blow through or draw through. I've heard of a few people that moved the MAF to the back and did draw through. I don't think I would personally do that. Many people also just use the MAF element and install it in a larger tube making their own larger MAF. The reading will be lower for a larger volume of air. You just have to retune for the change in the load/TP level. I haven't done this with mine yet but it should't be too difficult. The single larger MAF is the way I'd go.

Here's a link to one article I found on this mod.
http://autospeed.com/A_2631/xB....html

Modified by qsiguy at 1:16 PM 5/12/2008

I love your setup. I've been reading about it a lot here on NICO and it was part of the inspiration (the other part is reality of trying to twin-turbo this motor in the Z32 engine bay ) of doing a rear twin-turbo configuration.

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

Here's a link to my excel spreadsheet for turbo selection, I used the information from the Garret web site tutorials to make it. For twin turbos you just use 1/2 the displacement and HP goal. Sheets 2 and 3 of the spreadsheet also have information on them as well. It gives you a total of 9 horsepower examples when your plug in your data. This is the blank one... http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...2.xls This one has the data from my car in it, VH45DE '94 Q45. If you just half the engine displacement to 137 cubic inches and 1/2 the horsepower desired on this one you could use it for your application. Just use two of the turbo's you select and double the horsepower calculation for the end result. Maybe I should make a new page for twin turbo calculation...hmm. http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...l.xls

This is a fantastic spreadsheet I recommend it to all! - I downloaded it a few days ago I just hadn't connected Shane with your screen name - I too went through the calculations at the Garrett website and your spreadsheet was a Godsend. As far as a TT section, you could do it, but the alternative (halfing the displacement) works just as well considering your audience (people that have a pretty good understanding to begin with) and the fact that your reader is now going down the path of treating the motor as two 2.25 liter motors.

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

For the MAF you have a couple options that come to mind. since you are using twin turbos you could use twin MAFs either blow through or draw through. I've heard of a few people that moved the MAF to the back and did draw through. I don't think I would personally do that. Many people also just use the MAF element and install it in a larger tube making their own larger MAF. The reading will be lower for a larger volume of air. You just have to retune for the change in the load/TP level. I haven't done this with mine yet but it should't be too difficult. The single larger MAF is the way I'd go. Here's a link to one article I found on this mod. http://autospeed.com/A_2631/xB....html

I think I will probably go the route of dual MAF (though the mod is pretty trick). Would you go for A) dual TT MAFs rewired (different connector), B) use stocker Q45 ones, or a variation of the mod above (frequently done on Z32 TTs) whereby you fab up a Y pipe with [2] 2.5 intake tubes merging to a single 90mm tube which would go to the VH throttle body; one part of the Y would house the Z32 MAF and the other would be a flow through?

Thanks again for your feedback - I'll probably be "tapping" you for info when I get into phase 2. Do you believe the HP goal is attainable with what I'm looking at doing? It is in theory based on the spreadsheet I'm just not sure what else could go at this level (I had heard something about the oiling system not being up to snuff for really high HP)

Best regards,
Nick.

I'm not exactly sure how the dual MAFs are installed/wired. I've heard of having a "dummy" MAF but if it's a dummy I'm not sure why it's even there. Seems like if you just put one MAF (any type TT or OEM VH) on one of the turbo compressor outlets so you were just measuring 1/2 the air flow, you could just tune for that. In theory that's about the same thing as putting the MAF in a larger tube. Someone correct me if I am way off base on this one. From what I've seen tuning mine, if you know the TP, whatever it is, you can tune for that. So as long as the flows remain pretty much equal between the two turbos you should be able to tune with one MAF(?).. [This is me thinking out loud.]

I'm not planning on dual throttle bodies. I'm planning on a 2-in 1-out intercooler unless I have space issues running that big a pipe from the FMIC to the throttle body (don't want to hack up the car too much). Worse case scenario I'll run 2-in 2-out then a Y that will merge the flow into a 90mm pipe to the single Q throtle body. Going the latter route I could mount a Z MAF on one of the legs of the Y and a dummy one on the other (similar result to the MAF in a larger pipe).

As far as the dumy MAF I'm under the impression that the doolz systems that are used on the Zs basically are done to split the air in half (and allow for even more airflow x2). Of course the Z has dual throttle bodies and is more analogous to having [2] 1.5L motors versus the Q. The dummy MAF sensor is used to allow for the same restrictions (read wire mesh in the MAF) as the real MAF on the other side. The fundamental principle for this system to work is that the unmetered air is equal to the metered airflow. So the doolz system will allow for more air while allowing the MAF on the one side to measure half the air (with proper tuning) and still max out at 500HP but being that's only half the airflow it would be 500HP x 2.

The most straight-forward solution would be to get a MAF that can handle the higher HP, and plumb it before the throttle body but after the BOV as you've done but I read somewhere that you loose resolution with larger MAFs which may affect streetability at lower RPM.

Not sure if you or anyone has heard anything to that effect.

Thanks,
Nick.

I also wanted to add, that I have all the factory IC and plumbing that I took off my car, so dual IC with a merge would be possible but I would then need to go air-to-air intercooling. Not sure how well this would work though..... versus the alternative.

Nick.

What are you planning for your P.S.?

Thanks for the feedback. For the P/S I'm planning on using the stock Q pump (hopefully everything will clear - I'll know for sure when Craig comes down so we can weld the mounts). The plan is to take the Q high pressure hose from the pump to the rack and lengthen it by about 2-3 inches and add a fitting for the P/S pressure sensor. For the return line from the rack I'm going to use the factory hardline that crosses through the front of the car and used to return to the HICAS solenoid. I will lengthen the hose on the end of that line and go to a NA Z's reservoir (just picked one up on ebay). For the fill line I'm going to have a 1/2" line fabbed (same bends as the factory line) and siamezed (attached) to the existing return line so this will allow me to have all factory bracketry securing those lines. A side benefit is that this allows me to leave the P/S reservoir in the Z's factory location.

I'm doing something similar with the A/C (gotta have A/C in Houston) - I may reuse the factory Q's suction side (directly from the evap core) but will have a new high side line made that will go from one side of the condenser to where the drier currently is and have a hose attached to the end of it with the Q fittings for the compressor.

I found a place here locally that will do all the lines for a couple of hundred dollars, I'll see what they say when I bring them the stuff.

My goal is to retain all the creature comforts while keeping everything stock looking (nothing seeming out of place except the motor)

Thanks again for your feedback.

Nick.


Modified by npez at 7:20 PM 5/12/2008

You really could do pretty well with the OEM IC's since the intake temps will be cooler already since you have rear mounted turbos. Are you planning any methanol or water injection? That would help as well. I just ordered an intercooler. I had planned to leave it out and just let the methanol injection handle it but I'm addicted and if I can get 20-30 or more hp by installing an intercooler then I'm sold. Also, for the time being I'm pretty much limited to about 8-9 psi max with these 370cc injectors and stock MAF so I want to get the most power I can from my 8 psi. Of course when I cool the intake charge down I may find I just max out the MAF and injectors sooner. Oh well, cross that bridge when I get there.

I was looking at the snow system from Z1 Motorsports for the VG30DETT; I may consider that for the VH as well. The beauty about it is it's engineered for the Z so they provide a NA Z windshield washer tank that fits neatly on the RH side of the car and all the plumbing fits the Z. On the TT the windshield washer fluid is on the LH side back. Like you I'm thinking running cheap windhield washer fluid. I suppose I can get the generic kit and do it myself - I'll see what the price difference is.

It's good to hear that you picked up an intercooler - that will help a bit. The methanol injection will help a lot! I know what you mean by addiction. It seems you tell someone you're putting 400+ to the wheels and the thrill is amazing - for about a month. Then you don't "feel" it anymore and want more.

I look forward to hearing how the cooler air is working out - very curious on the MAF sensor....

Nick.

I got a new appreciation for the speed of my car during a recent business trip while in my rental car...a Chevy Cobalt Kinda cool looking with the wing and all but you put your foot down and I was sure there was something keeping the pedal from going all the way down At that moment I said to myself, wow, my car is really fast!

Can't wait to see your build get started. I really love watching builds materialize. Make sure you document it well and take lots of photos. Others like them and I have referenced my install photos many many times figuring out how to do something.

and sweeeeet! I can't wait...... I got most of the garage picked up after the ceiling renovation for the lift - and all the "extra" parts I've taken out of the Z are finally in the attic versus the floor.....

I'll post some pictures of the car in it's current state and then take some photos of the "sister" harness and labeling as I do the soldering work.....

Thanks,
Nick.

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

I got a new appreciation for the speed of my car during a recent business trip while in my rental car...a Chevy Cobalt Kinda cool looking with the wing and all but you put your foot down and I was sure there was something keeping the pedal from going all the way down At that moment I said to myself, wow, my car is really fast!

That's funny with the cobalt. When you think that you're probably putting down 3-4x the horsepower it all starts to make sense.....

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

Can't wait to see your build get started. I really love watching builds materialize. Make sure you document it well and take lots of photos. Others like them and I have referenced my install photos many many times figuring out how to do something.

I'm pretty excited about it. I've already started taking pictures and will post the "current state" as soon as I download them off the camera and resize them. The car is a shell at the moment as far as the powertrain but when Craig comes down from Austin, I'll put the car on the lift and make sure I take photos from many different angles...

Take care,
Nick.

-engine/trans/driveshaft
-Midpipes (Random Technology High Flow Cats) and X pipe
-EFI harness
-HICAS engine bay hydraulic lines and HICAS solenoids
-Radiator/AC Condenser/AC Drier
-A/C Line from cross-member and nose of the car.
-Bumper Cover & Bumper supports
-All turbo plumbing, recirculating valves, intercoolers, etc.

In the pictures you'll see some of the items I'm referencing in the thread such as the power steering return hard line on the LH frame rail as well as the HICAS hardlines that go from the LH engine bay to the back of the car. I'm going to be using these as oil feed/return lines with an electric oil pump for scavenging in the rear of the car.

When Craig comes down for us to weld up the mounts and put the engine in, I'll take lots of pictures for an update.

Nick.

The Z Disassembled

RH Side of Engine Bay - HICAS Solenoid + Lines Removed as well as EFI Harnes

LH Side of Engine Bay - You can see the P/S Return Line on the frame Rail. I'm going to have a 1/2" line made and siamezed to this one for the feed line to the pump.

A closeup of the HICAS Lines. These will be used as oil feed/return lines as the twin-turbo setup will be rear-mounted.

A couple of pictures of the 1994 VH45DE motor that will be going in

That's all I've got until I take pictures of the harness work.

Nick.

Some suggestions if I may. You have an excellent looking engine. If it were me I would leave it alone until the turbo build. I wouldn't pull anything off of it at all, just the exhaust mani's and drop it in.

You'll also have to modify the coolant neck where the fill cap is on the engine. It sticks up too far and interferes with the Z hood a lot more than the plenum.

Also, what are your plans for your plumbing to the intercooler(s) from the turbo's? Once the VH is in there is very very little room to route plumbing around it. Just curious.

I'll pop up with random memories and suggestions as your build progresses. It just comes to me in flashes, must be menopause...

Shane,

Yeah I started about 6 months ago when I took the Z motor out de-torqued the heads and then disassembled the rest of the motor to make an assessment of what kind of damage I had. The bulge around the flange and the tear in the metal of the oil pan weren't good signs. When I finally assessed I found out the #6 rod had snapped on the big end and went flying down, broke the girddle and then all that went flying around hitting the crank and tearing everything up.

About 3 months ago I started researching different motor options and decided on the VH, picked up the parts and began work on this project.

The hydraulic lift was a present from my wife. It makes it much easier to work on the car.

Thanks.
Nick.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

What a terrible father. Your kid has a bone stock pink corvette while daddy is busy hopping up his Z. Show the kid some love and put in a couple more batteries in series will ya?

I suck don't I? Believe it or not the little mustang is pretty fast to begin with but I had looked into some motors that are a little higher voltage and faster. I guess she'll have to wait until she's 6 or 7 for that! Confusius said "too much power bad for little 4 year old girls"

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Some suggestions if I may. You have an excellent looking engine. If it were me I would leave it alone until the turbo build. I wouldn't pull anything off of it at all, just the exhaust mani's and drop it in. You'll also have to modify the coolant neck where the fill cap is on the engine. It sticks up too far and interferes with the Z hood a lot more than the plenum.

Thanks for the compliment I will probably be coating some of the parts later (when it's in the machine shop) to make it pretty. What type of modification is done (i.e. do people just hack a part off)? There's the ECT and Engine Temp for the temp gauge on this pipe. Please advise if you remember off the top of your head - or if you have a picture that would be great too....

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Also, what are your plans for your plumbing to the intercooler(s) from the turbo's? Once the VH is in there is very very little room to route plumbing around it. Just curious.

I was thinking along side the frame rails but I won't know exactly how until I see the motor in there and I start looking around..... It also depends if I'm going to use the factory ICs as the pipes would then need to go to the nose of the car. Once there the plumbing routing should become a little more straight-forward.

Thanks again for all your feedback.....

Nick.

Goal 600HP (Crank) approx 500RWHP
Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC): .625 (turbocharged)
Injector Duty Cycle: 85% (a little higher than the typical 80%)
Fuel Pressure: 47PSI (a little higher than stock)

So if I increase the fuel pressure and don't beat the snot out of the car the 555cc injectors should work. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

If I keep the fuel pressure at stock the injectors would be marginally too small. Is the best bet to go to 720cc NISMOs to get more upside or stick with what I have? My understanding is that going way big may introduce other issues like low RPM atomization, etc. so if anyone has any experience/constructuve criticism on this I would appreciate your feedback.

Also I've been tinkering with the idea of braking Phase 2 into a 2A and 2B to help expedite things and have tangible results faster.

2A would incorporate the turbo's at 7-8PSI (maybe more) with stock internals, the TT factory ICs, the 555cc injectors, TT oil cooler integration, water/alcohol injection, and ECU tuning.

2B would go further with having the engine rebuilt low compression, stronger internals, turning up the boost, MAF work, and additional ECU tuning.

Doing it this way divides the cost to maybe $2-3K USD for 2A as I have most of the stuff already, and another $3-4K USD for phase 2B. The benefit is that for relatively small dollars I can have a car that's pretty darn quick after 2A. Also I don't have to explain $7K all at once to my wife . Judging by Shane's video and my previous setup (about 380RWHP) I think the bulk of my problem will be traction anyway (which can be addressed after 2A).

Does this sound reasonable or will I have challenges finding a turbo that will be flexible enough (lag, flow, etc.) at 7-8psig as well as 16psig in phase 2B (I obviously don't want to buy turbos twice). I know the GT25s that the VG30DETT came with had an operating range of 9psig stock and could go to 18psig after which they were just blowing hot air. I know the GT25's would be way small; I'm using that as an example.

A side benefit will be that I can then set my Greddy Profec B later to have a low setting of 7-8psig (for when my wife drives the car) and 15-16psig (for hauling butt)

Thanks,
Nick.

Along the frame rails... well there is about 0 room along the frame rails after the engine and mani's are in. I believe the best option is to do a TT setup using forward facing mani's, ditching the a/c and p/s pumps, and using similar routing to the stock Z intake piping. There really isn't any room...at all. lol

I'll keep looking at my build and see what I can come up with.

Thanks for the feedback.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

On my coolant neck I just cut it off to where I could plumb a rubber hose to it. I'll post pics when I get a chance.

That will be great - it sure will make it easier - did you have to weld a bead on the end so you could clamp the hose, or does the hose hold pretty well with just the clamp on the pipe?

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Along the frame rails... well there is about 0 room along the frame rails after the engine and mani's are in. I believe the best option is to do a TT setup using forward facing mani's, ditching the a/c and p/s pumps, and using similar routing to the stock Z intake piping. There really isn't any room...at all. lol

Man that's a buzz kill. If there isn't any room removing a/c and p/s wont be an option - I need to retain the creature comforts that's one of the project givens. When you mentioned the lack of room I started staring at the car this evening and was trying to think a little out of the box.

This idea may sound crazy but bear with me. What would prevent me from running 2-1/2" plumbing through the fenderwell? If you look underneath that's where the body harnesses are run. There's actually a channel of sorts under there. So with some heatshielding/wrap around the electrical harnesses, there may be enough room to tuck the plumbing underneath. This would make the plumbing end up covered by the underfender splash shields. The front of the pipe would also end up right where the factory intercoolers are. I will have to lift the car up and pull the wheels off to confirm, but it may be plausible, though unorthodox somewhat.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

I'll keep looking at my build and see what I can come up with.

That will be great - keep in mind when you're looking that I don't want to sacrifice the creature comforts.....

Thanks again for your feedback and I'll let you know (maybe take some pics as well) once I have the car up in the air....

Thanks,
Nick.

The pics are of the RH fender (wing for our international readers) - Based on what I see I seriously think this may be a do-able option if there simply is no other logical way to route through the engine bay. I am aware that the LH side has the vacuum tank for the PRVR but that's going away anyway. The only other thing that *may* get in the way is the overflow tank, but I think we still have about 3 inches to route the pipe. The 9 o clock position may be a little tight as well but I didn't take a good picture of it. Fabbing the bend on the aluminum pipe may cost a little bit but to me at least it would be worth it to keep a/c and p/s.

A benefit with this routing is that the pipe while a little longer then a straight shot through the engine will be away from engine heat and therefore a little cooler. So here are the pics.

The channel I mentioned in an earlier post between the fender and inner fender support. This is at the 12 o clock position

Front of the fender around 4 o clock position - the black thing in the picture is just a piece of plastic that is trimmable if need be

12 o clock again with measurement to the underfender splashield mounting tab

10 o clock with measurement to the splashield mounting tab

Crazy idea or worth exploring further? Comments/feedback as always is appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick.

The fenderwell is the other option I researched. It would work perfectly for the front half of the car. Once you're under the car it gets tight again. I brainstormed of running a single rear mount, hooking the mani's together near the trans and using one of the stock exhaust pipes to feed and one for return, kinda like your hicas oil feed idea.

I didn't break out a tape measure or anything, just eyeballed. That's so far off in the future it's not worth getting my hopes up for. I can barely afford to get it on the road as it is, having to shadetree a lot just so I can drive it and work out some bugs.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

As for the coolant neck it has a textured surface and I think just a clamp will suffice, but if you're got the resources it wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'll call a friend of mine that TIG welds and see if he can do a bead otherwise I'll run it as is like you did.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

The fenderwell is the other option I researched. It would work perfectly for the front half of the car. Once you're under the car it gets tight again. I brainstormed of running a single rear mount, hooking the mani's together near the trans and using one of the stock exhaust pipes to feed and one for return, kinda like your hicas oil feed idea.

Since I' have the car up in the air, I may investigate this a little more while I wait for Craig to wrap up and come down. The exhaust mani with single turbo setup is trully out of the box thinking - very impressed. I'll keep hammering at this to see where it takes me. I'll post some more pics from underneath if I see something workable. Once I get it all figured out, and I will as I'm pretty tenacious with these types of issues, and we have a workable solution, I'll post it so you can reference it later when you're ready and if you choose to go down this path.....

Thanks,
Nick.

Yea, the othr day on the phone I realize that Nick has a LIFT IN HIS GARAGE!!!!!!! 21 years building cars, and i don't even have a lift. We need more wives like her.

Nick, I just cut the neck leaving enough to clamp hose onto it without interfering with the outlet side right beside it. Look at some of the pics I sent you.
There is NO engine bay room for plumbing. But trust me I am looking into it too. Not to worry, one step at a time.
engine is sitting in bay right now, all wired in, testing everything, and then as soon as i get these darn bolts to hold flywheel to crank and p/p, then should be good to go. trying to tye up work here, to gt out asap.
Pan fits Great!, mani's, well I beat the crap out of them, and they need more. Resting on mani's and frame, and have a 1/8 between pan/ rack. Getting there.

here are a few pics.....you should be able to see my waterneck.

and here is one for all the haters who thought the pan would sit too low or in the way.

Great update! your car looks great! Everything seems to be coming together very nicely. I'm going to lift the car all the way up and start peeking underneath to see the different ways plumbing could be run. More academic at this point then actually doing it, but I want to see what all the different options are.

I'll let you know what else I come up with. Great pic of the filler neck as well - I'll cut mine there too

Thanks,
Nick.

The more and more I think about it, your idea of a single turbo may be way more straight-forward than twins. But I'll keep looking to see if I can find any other options.

Thanks,
Nick.

npez, I'm jealous of your car lift >_< It's exactly what I need right now!

Have you thought about building forward facing manifolds, but having them squeeze out and up past cylinders 1 & 2 on each side at rocker cover level, then forwards before flanging for the turbos? That'd let you miss the P/S and A/C pumps, and mount the turbos behind the headlights in a similar fashion to canadiandrifter240sx's setup.

I reckon that'd work, judging vaguely by the pics craigztoyz posted of his engine mounted in place.

Quote, originally posted by Mettler »

Have you thought about building forward facing manifolds, but having them squeeze out and up past cylinders 1 & 2 on each side at rocker cover level, then forwards before flanging for the turbos? That'd let you miss the P/S and A/C pumps, and mount the turbos behind the headlights in a similar fashion to canadiandrifter240sx's setup. I reckon that'd work, judging vaguely by the pics craigztoyz posted of his engine mounted in place.

I had thought about it but I didn't think I could squeeze the turbos behind the headlights - now you have me thinking. Another option would be to take the front facing pipe and routing it to the nose (under the front panel where the airbox used to be) and mounting 2 turbos in there.

I asked Craig if he can send me some eye level photos of the LH and RH side manifolds in his engine bay to see how much room is actually there.

I am really wanting a twin-turbo setup so we'll have to see if the turbo will fit behind the headlights or the alternative of running it under the nose. There has to be room somewhere to fit the twins in there.

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions,
Nick.

I see what you're saying though. In my last reply I thought the turbo would be more forward than that. I will have to see what would need to happen with the main electrical box on the LH side though. I think a turbo that close even with heatshields will melt that thing....

I'll go look......

Thanks,
Nick.

I pulled the LH manifold off the motor and tried something funky for kicks. I flipped the manifold over (clocked it 180 degrees) and other than some interference from the downpipe and the first tube with the head around cylinder 1(? forward most cylinder on the LH side) - it fits!

I'm thinking that if the downpipe was cut including the O2 bong, etc., possibly the first tube as well, and cleaned up it may set the tube in a position where the flange can be mounted on. This would minimize the amount of work needed on the manifold to just minor welding and would get us to the endpoint you suggested in your illustration.

Doing it this way also opens up enough space on the side of the motor (as the individual header pipes are now angled up) to run the exhaust from the wastegate and tie it into the exhaust system.

Have you heard of anyone flipping the manifold over like this?

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.

That's interesting that you can flip the manifold just like that, and it goes a long way to illustrating what's possible. Personally, I'd be inclined to fabricate new manifolds from scratch, as I'm not sure how durable the stock header manifolds would be if modified for twinturbo application... and they aren't all that nice quality inside either. Though they are fairly thick walled I guess... but how prone would they be to cracking etc?

Anyway, that's just speculation... it shows you that such a manifold style would fit... you're probably not the first to think of that Would be keen to read other people's opinions about recycling the stock manifolds... it's a pretty good idea as long as they're made well enough for the purpose.

And it should leave room for a 3" exhaust system on either side that as you said, you could plumb the external wastegate back into.

Another thing to consider would be that your turbos won't actually need to be all that huge. You only need an average sized (good quality) turbo to get 400HP out of an SR20DET... and considering the VH head design flows better, two medium sized turbos like GT3076Rs would undoubtedly be sufficient to achieve 800HP or so (flywheel), and could be small enough not to interfere with anything when mounted as discussed.

I've always felt this is how you'd ideally want to mount the turbos in a V8 twinturbo setup to keep the plumbing as short as you can, because while rear mounting is possible, you'd need a whole lot more pipe... and then your system is also at greater risk of damage from road hazards under the car. I dunno about you, but I've smashed bits off cars before from hitting possums and rabbits on the road... lol

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...age=3

Quote, originally posted by Mettler »

That's interesting that you can flip the manifold just like that, and it goes a long way to illustrating what's possible. Personally, I'd be inclined to fabricate new manifolds from scratch, as I'm not sure how durable the stock header manifolds would be if modified for twinturbo application... and they aren't all that nice quality inside either. Though they are fairly thick walled I guess... but how prone would they be to cracking etc? Anyway, that's just speculation... it shows you that such a manifold style would fit... you're probably not the first to think of that Would be keen to read other people's opinions about recycling the stock manifolds... it's a pretty good idea as long as they're made well enough for the purpose. And it should leave room for a 3" exhaust system on either side that as you said, you could plumb the external wastegate back into.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say as well. I think if gussetted properly they'll be pretty strong - the stock manis don't look too bad from what I've seen - look like stainless steel oval tubes and the flange is actually angled for better flow. I know a guy that TIGs very well so I can ask him about strength, etc. and see what his thoughts are as well and I can keep everything stainless steel.

Quote, originally posted by Mettler »

Another thing to consider would be that your turbos won't actually need to be all that huge. You only need an average sized (good quality) turbo to get 400HP out of an SR20DET... and considering the VH head design flows better, two medium sized turbos like GT3076Rs would undoubtedly be sufficient to achieve 800HP or so (flywheel), and could be small enough not to interfere with anything when mounted as discussed. I've always felt this is how you'd ideally want to mount the turbos in a V8 twinturbo setup to keep the plumbing as short as you can, because while rear mounting is possible, you'd need a whole lot more pipe... and then your system is also at greater risk of damage from road hazards under the car. I dunno about you, but I've smashed bits off cars before from hitting possums and rabbits on the road... lol

That's the turbo I was looking at over at the garrett website I'll have to get some dimensions and see how everything can fit. I liked the rear mount as the intercooling effect on the charge pipes is a good thing as well as the turbos being away from all the heat. But looking at what would be involved is a different story.... Front mount may be the only feasible way to go but this way I'll have oil and water to go ball bearing on the turbos..... I'm also going to call a bud that has a junkyard (he has a Q45 motor with a knock) and get the manifolds from that one (I believe 91-94 should be the same) - this way I can hack one set up as turbo manifolds while having my originals to complete phase 1.

This is getting more interesting by the day.....

Thanks,
Nick.

Thanks for your input.

Nick.

I'm in the same boat as you though, I want to keep ps and a/c, make a nice sports car with great touring assets as well. What fun is a car that has 5 more hp, 15 less lbs of weight and no a/c?

Even though you'll be hacking up the manifolds it might be easier to start with a set off a JDM imported engine since they don't have the bulky pre-cats all the US engines do.

Who completed a TT VH45 Z?

EDIT:
I take that back, Perana said he had one. He's across the big puddle and gets JDM spec parts but still had one running.