Versa vs Smart

[MinisterofDOOM]

The Smart is finally here in the US. I've read several reviews and even seen a few on the road.

Funny thing is, I keep running across the same comments in the reviews. Generally reviewers like the compact convenience of the car, HATE the transmission, and admire the amount of cargo space in such a small package.They also almost universally mention that they'd rather have a Versa instead.Almost every review of the Smart I've read makes a comment about the Versa offering the same milage in a more practical package and without the Smart's horrendous SMG--all for the same price as a Smart.

Says a lot for the Versa, I think, that it can be so much larger and offer equivalent fuel milage for the same price.

Personally, I think the US market is going to force a design change in the Smart. US buyers aren't going to put up with the harsh, clunky, noisy transmission that the car is currently cursed with. If they don't come up with a better option, the car is going to flop.

[Sure_Shot]

I have both a Versa and a Smart, and both are great. My Smart is a diesel, though. Aren't the US ones gas? My smart certainly gets better mileage than the versa, and any "noisiness" I just chalk up to having a diesel engine sitting behind the seats. I've never driven a US spec Smart, but if it doesn't offer better mileage than the Versa, I don't see there being too much appeal in owning it.

[srellim234]

I think the main competition to the hatchback Versa in the US market is the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe wagon. The fold flat seats don't take too much legroom away in the back, the front passenger seat folds flat forward to reveal a platform for your laptop and there is a two-prong household plug power converter in the dash. Bigger, more powerful engine delivering the same to 1 mpg better than the Versa. A Vibe loaded all the way to the sunroof like a loaded Versa will run at least $2-4k more, though.

[Vahagn23]

In my opinion I think the smart is a peace of ****. The thing is too small to be driven and very unsafe on highways.

[pfc369]

,we have the gas version only. it is about 40mpg average for us version due to smog. they have altered the engine for us. i am thinking to get one but have a 8 months waiting list. they are a lot of car for sale in craiglist's asking for 20,000us$.

[daggonit]

Unfortunately the Smart FourTwo is being offered to America as more of a novelty car and not the true urban commuter that it truly is. I personally have a great respect for the car because it's steering away from the typical American attitude of "bigger is better" and moving to a "smarter is better" (no pun intended) attitude. This is the same respect I give to all of the small cars on the market right now and that includes the Versa. Maybe one day large, useless, gas guzzling vehicles (Hummer) will fall into the same category as the Mullet...you'll see one occasionally and have to fight the urge to snicker as you pass it by...maybe take a picture of it with your camera phone to show all your friends at a later date.


Modified by daggonit at 3:09 PM 5/9/2008

[Versagirlie]

I was on my way home last night had had really bad traffic...usual for west los angeles...but at the corner of wilshire and bundy...there was a smart car vs a H2....the smart car was gone and the driver...I dont think he made it. I dont understand why someone would want a smart car in areas where SUV's rule...its sad...I'd never own one

[keanucosmo]

Smart requires premium instead of regular. Gas cost difference using EPA estimates is only 2 cents per mile. With my mileage better than EPA, I doubt there would be enough savings to make it worth it.

[Ever Victorious]

Just because a car is small doesn't mean it's un-crashworthy. Nor does it mean a large car IS crash worthy.

http://bridger.us/2002/12/16/C...F150/

Such an attitude actually LEADS us partially to our demand for large vehicles like SUV, because they give the illusion of control and safety. Now, if the Smart got hit hard by an H2, yeah it's possible the driver didn't survive. An H2 is what, 6000+ pounds? And has a solid ladder frame.

But bear this in mind... my 2700 pound Versa, at a dead stop, got nailed squarely in the rear by a 5300 pound Ford F150 that was still doing approximately 25 MPH, and shoved into a 6000+ pound Suburban.

And I walked away unscratched.

It's all about how you design the car for safety. Once the IIHS and NHTSA give ratings to the Smart, you'll have a better idea of how it will actually fare.

That said... thing's too bloody small. I can't even sit comfortably in a Kia Rio. That would be an absolute clown car by comparison.

[daggonit]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/..._test/

[Ever Victorious]

Yeah, that doesn't make me want it any more than before.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Unfortunately the Smart FourTwo is being offered to America as more of a novelty car and not the true urban commuter that it truly is. I personally have a great respect for the car because it's steering away from the typical American attitude of "bigger is better" and moving to a "smarter is better" (no pun intended) attitude. This is the same respect I give to all of the small cars on the market right now and that includes the Versa.

Oh, I agree. BUT, I think the FourTwo (at least in the US) has missed the mark. It SHOULD be better. Should get better milage. Should be more driver-friendly. And it should be cheaper.

I'm actually pretty disappointed with the "fuel efficient" car movement. I mean, think about it...In the early 90s, we had compacts that got 30-40mpg. Now we're FIGHTING to re-attain those numbers. The problem is that compacts to day are NOT compact. The Smart models are.

It should be noted that I'm not a fan of small cars for myself. I'm a tall guy and I'm a sucker for noisy V8s. I'd rather drive my loud, heavy, fuel-gulping Q45 than an efficient econocar any day. But that doesn't mean I don't see the point of little cars like the Smart and Versa.

I also hadn't really considered how different the North American FourTwo was until this discussion. It really is too bad.

I will offer one more counterpoint to the Smart, though:I think it, like a lot of other efficient "solution" cars on the market, are not ideal for North American driving conditions. They're all from places like Japan or Europe where driving is primarily slow, heavy-traffic or local commuting. That's not how it works here. A 300+hp V6 is going to be just as efficient at 75mph as a hybrid or tiny 4 (or less) cylinder, if not moreso.

[jmaclean]

. . . .In the early 90s, we had compacts that got 30-40mpg. Now we're FIGHTING to re-attain those numbers. . . .

I wish I still had my 1977 Datsun B210 hatchback. It was a rated for 50 mpg and I routinely got high-40s. Granted it didn't have air bags or any other safety features except a padded dashboard (my parent's had a Rambler in the 60's with a push-button transmission, steel dash and no seat belts), but the Feds should have pushed the industry a long time ago. We've had fuel crisis' before - early 70s. (for the younger readers, Datsun was renamed Nissan)

[daggonit]

When all the pros and cons are added up...the Versa is a lot more car for the money when held against the Smart FourTwo. I still like the FourTwo but I wouldn't spend $15,000 on one. Also, there is just too much novelty involved with the US version of the Smart FourTwo. Hopefully it won't turn into a cliche like the VW New Beetle.

I test drove a LOT of cars before buying the Versa...I even owned a Honda Fit before the Versa (don't get me started on the Fit). It's hard to find a fully loaded, fuel efficient, comfortable vehicle for under $20,000 in the US. Fortunately the Versa is out there and meets all of those points very nicely.

[bikeman]

I think the main competition to the hatchback Versa in the US market is the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe wagon. The fold flat seats don't take too much legroom away in the back, the front passenger seat folds flat forward to reveal a platform for your laptop and there is a two-prong household plug power converter in the dash. Bigger, more powerful engine delivering the same to 1 mpg better than the Versa. A Vibe loaded all the way to the sunroof like a loaded Versa will run at least $2-4k more, though.

Hate to hijack this thread but I'd like to agree that the Matrix/Vibe is vehicle that the Versa should compared to. The Matrix does have a bigger, more powerful and NOISIER engine. It needs it. I just read Consumer Reports write-up on the new Matrix. It doesn't appear that Toyota addressed any of the drawbacks of the original Matrix in the new version. Also, for a comparable vehicle, the best price we were quoted last year was $4,000. more for either the Vibe or the Matrix. My wife and I made a list of what we liked and didn't like about both vehicles. The Matrix won on storage which was a major plus for me and not relevant to her. Pretty much everything else we both liked on the Versa SL. And we saved four grand.Now back to the topic at hand.

David

[marleyfan]

The Smart car has been available in Canada for several years now and is slowly increasing in popularity. I see 4 or 5 every day. They are not marketed to the same demographic as the Versa. The smart car is an urban commuter car that seats only 2 people. It is specifically designed for inner city use although it performs fine on the the highway. The Versa on the other hand loves the highway and gets lousy mileage as a commuter in heavy stop and go traffic. I have no idea why a thread comparing the two was even started. As for the safety aspect of the Smart car, it has a very protective cage and is as safe or safer than many cars twice it's size. And its small size and distinctive design actually make it more visible than many cars. You almost can't help but notice it.

As for the Vibe/Matrix, Versa comparison, I have both a Vibe and a Versa (there's something about cars that start with "V") and I like both cars. The Vibe handles well and has tons of room. I prefer the handling and styling of the Versa tho. On the other hand my son prefers to drive the Vibe.

[frankoV]

You got it, MarleyMan.

Lots of SmartCars around here -- most I've seen are used by businesses as advertisements and local transportation. Not sure that I would take one on the 401 but I've seen them there too (mind you, the first time I drove on the 401 was in the middle of an amazing downpour/thunderstorm; I drove with the wipers on "fast" and they barely kept up with the rain; I was going 130 km/hr in the slow lane, being passed by semis and motorcycles. I've since adapted).

[Rockhound]

...A 300+hp V6 is going to be just as efficient at 75mph as a hybrid or tiny 4 (or less) cylinder, if not moreso.

Say what? Do you really believe this?

I understand what you mean about cars like the ForTwo being more suited toward both European driving style and driving conditions.

But I'd sure like to know what 300+hp V6 powered car gets "tiny 4-cylinder" highway gas mileage...

Here are the highway EPA ratings for several common 300+hp V6s:

Infiniti G35: 23 to 25 MPG depending on trim, 3.5L V6 - 306hp Infiniti G37: 24 to 26 MPG depending on trim, 3.7L V6 - 330hpLexus IS350: 25 MPG, 3.5L V6 - 306hpBMW 335i: 26 MPG, 3.0L I6 - 300hpBMW 535i: 26 MPG, 3.0L I6 - 300hpCadillac CTS: 26 MPG, 3.6L Direct Injection V6 - 304 hpCadillac STS: 26 MPG, 3.6L VVT V6 - 302 hp

You can even throw in many sub-300hp V6s for kicks:

Nissan Altima: 26 to 27 MPG manual/auto, 3.5L V6 - 270hpNissan Maxima: 25 MPG, 3.5L V6 - 255hpHonda Accord: 29 MPG, 3.5L V6 - 268hp

You apparently haven't spent much time in any I4 powered cars for the past 15 (or more) years. The Versa pulls a mere 2600 RPM @ 75 mph - the engine is all but hushed and gas mileage is in the low-to-mid 30s.

My old G20 was at slightly higher RPMs @ 75 mph with it's 145hp 2.0L I4, but still returned 32+MPG at highway speeds.

Here are some other "tiny 4-cylinder" cars' EPA highway ratings:

Toyota Corolla: 35 MPG, 1.8L I4 - 132hpToyota Yaris: 36 MPG, 1.5L I4 - 106hpNissan Sentra: 33 MPG (CVT), 2.0L I4 - 140hpHonda Civic: 36 MPG (auto), 1.8L I4 - 140 hp

Heck, my '93 Sentra XE (1.6L I4, 110hp) achieved 40 MPG, even with the cruise set at 80 mph. Of course, that was when gas mileage wasn't a primary concern for most folks.

All I'm saying, though, is that acting as if a 300+hp V6 will get the same gas mileage as a 4-cylinder on the highway is preposterous. It kind of reminds me of one of my coworkers that is apparently stuck in 1975. He's afraid of getting his wife a 4-cyl powered car, because he wasn't sure how good they'd be for long trips (?).
Modified by Rockhound at 11:22 PM 5/9/2008

[illf8ed]

I wish I still had my 1977 Datsun B210 hatchback. It was a rated for 50 mpg and I routinely got high-40s. Granted it didn't have air bags or any other safety features except a padded dashboard (my parent's had a Rambler in the 60's with a push-button transmission, steel dash and no seat belts), but the Feds should have pushed the industry a long time ago. We've had fuel crisis' before - early 70s. (for the younger readers, Datsun was renamed Nissan)

I own a '77 B210 HB. It sat in my dads garage for about 15 years so it's not roadworthy yet but it should be by the end of the year.

[Ever Victorious]

You apparently haven't spent much time in any I4 powered cars for the past 15 (or more) years. The Versa pulls a mere 2600 RPM @ 75 mph - the engine is all but hushed and gas mileage is in the low-to-mid 30s.

To clarify, that's only the CVT version of the Versa. a 6MT will be running closer to 3250 RPM @ 75 MPH, and the fuel economy will be below peak. The Manual's fuel economy drops off pretty fast after 70 MPH.

MoD - In outright fuel efficiency, large powerful engines will not beat a 4-cylinder. You have to use more fuel to move the larger mass. However, there is something to be said for having power in certain vehicles, at least to a balancing point. I've run across a couple models that have two engine choices... a 4 cylinder that is too underpowered, and a 6 cylinder that is well balanced. As a result, the 6 cylinder version gets the same fuel economy as the 4 cylinder in real-world situations.

[srellim234]

Another negative about the Smart is the worst factory warranty in the industry. It only comes with a 2 year/24,000 mile warranty. Extended warranties are available if you're willing to pay, but 2/24 is a pretty good indication that the manufacturer doesn't have a lot of faith in the long term reliability of the car.

[fjwagner]

I wish I still had my 1977 Datsun B210 hatchback.

That was my first car in 1976 or maybe 1977. Anyway, I had it for three months before someone pulled out in front of me and totaled the car. I walked away, so the safety was excellent even then. I paid for it myself and remember something on the order of $3000 or so. Stick shift, rather basic but a good car. Fred

[XterraVersa]

The Smart is finally here in the US. I've read several reviews and even seen a few on the road.

What do you mean finally? It has been avaliable for 3-4 years, but not from Mercedes. There was a dealer just up the street from where I used to work that turned to a used car place after Mercedes decided to sell them directly in the US.

I have seen maybe 10 of the clown cars driving around in the past 3-4 years.

When I 1st saw them, It was sweat, a 50-60 mpg car. That is worth $30k, fuel savings alone would have made the monthly payments. But when I really looked, I was very disapointed with the mileage. It would save money, but not offset the higher payment.

I wish car makers would bring a few more Euro cars here. I am glad VW is bringing the 75mpg Gulf in 2010.

The Versa could have better mpg if they would have spaced the gearing in the 6mt better. The geared it like a racer, not an econobox.

I can't wait for the plug-in hybrids with 100+ mile range / full charge. I would never buy another gallon of gas to go to work.

[Rockhound]

It was sweat, a 50-60 mpg car.

It's EPA combined rating is 36 MPG. And it can be had for well under $20k.

[XterraVersa]

The $30k was from the dealers in Denver before Mercedes decided to direct market the car. I was hoping 50-60 mpg based on the size of the car. The disappointing 36mpg combined is lower than what I get with my Versa.

[IMHungry]

Cost of service on a Smart is prohibitive. (big time!) Resale value sucks. Though it's touted as very safe, I 've seen what happens in an accident with one of these and it's not pretty. Great for europe. Not so great for North America. IMHO it's a novelty car only and caters to a very small segment of the population.

[MinisterofDOOM]

What do you mean finally? It has been avaliable for 3-4 years, but not from Mercedes. There was a dealer just up the street from where I used to work that turned to a used car place after Mercedes decided to sell them directly in the US.

Right, but now they're actually here. They're being manufactured and sold to federal standards (which have, apparently, destroyed the car's appeal--time to re-evaluate your standards, NHTSA!).

[XterraVersa]

It is not just NHTSA that is keeping us from getting European cars. The EPA also has its road blocks. There are cars across the pond that get 50-80 mpg on diesel but they are not allowed in the US. They meet all the NHTSA standards because their gas power brothers are sold here. The problem is how the EPA measures pollution. They measure it per gallon of fuel, not per mile traveled.

These banned diesels pollute about half the ppm/mile than the Prius (which is the cleanest EPA rated fuel burning car/gallon).

It is time for real leadership to shake things up at the EPA for the benefit of everyone (except the guys selling fuel).

[Bubs daddy]

What European car gets 80 mpg or even 70?

[Great White Versa]

What European car gets 80 mpg or even 70?

A quick search of various UK car sites found these:

Merceds C-Class (not 70s, but significantly higher than the same engine here) select the C230

us - http://www.carsdirect.com/2007/mercedesbenz/c230

uk - http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.u....html

Peugeot

206 - http://ww3.peugeot.co.uk/ppp/P...b.pdf (73)107 - http://ww3.peugeot.co.uk/ppp/P...t.pdf (68)

Fiat 500 http://www.fiat.co.uk/WorkArea...10689

Ford - yeah, they can actually make a decent car, just not here:

http://www.ford.co.uk/safari/a...iesel/ ... el/-/-/-/-