2002 Q45 F50 Project Teaser pics

[marksport]

Some progress on 2008 project for my Q....

Bored and o-ringed block











Venolia low compression pistons and Pauter billet rods







Supercharger manifold with new larger blower compared to the original blower. Larger unit flows 28% more air.

[elwesso]

NICE! what kind of boost are we looking at?

Those pictures make me happy in the pants.

[maxnix]

Me stupid! Where are O rings in block?

Rods forged?

Did you sleeve it also?

Dropped static CR ought to help life and power. Does VK have squirters for bottom of pistons? Changing oil pump, radiator, transmission build?

Good luck!

[jonseyq45]

O rings are a way of providing additional sealing. Grooves are cut in both the head and the block. A ring is made, usually copper, to fit in the groove. As it is both in the head and the block it provides a stronger seal. Used in both turbo and supercharger applications where cylinder pressure is raised.

Jonsey....

[tmorgan4]

Wow.

[marksport]

Me stupid! Where are O rings in block?

Rods forged?

Did you sleeve it also?

Dropped static CR ought to help life and power. Does VK have squirters for bottom of pistons? Changing oil pump, radiator, transmission build?

Good luck!

jonseyq45 nailed the o-ring answer.

Rods are billet steel, factory sleeves bored out 0.5mm/0.020", low compression pistons for higher boost level. I don't think the VK have squirters built in. Oil pump is stock, radiator will be custom made and thicker. Transmission will be rebuilt for the increase in power. Two new B&M oil coolers, one for the transmission and one for the engine oil will be installed behind the fog/driving lamps, each with their own temperature activated electric fan.

[maxnix]

O rings are a way of providing additional sealing. Grooves are cut in both the head and the block. A ring is made, usually copper, to fit in the groove. As it is both in the head and the block it provides a stronger seal. Used in both turbo and supercharger applications where cylinder pressure is raised.

Jonsey....

So basically 4 crush rings in a matrix to keep them located? I was thinking rubber or viton and wondering how that would work.

[maxnix]

I like your approach. So no direct oil cooling of the pistons? It's reputed that the VH45DE has this feature, but never documented that I know.
Modified by maxnix at 12:03 PM 5/12/2008

[jonseyq45]

Ceramic coating??????

[qsiguy]

....Those pictures make me happy in the pants.

Very impressive! Can't wait to see how this project goes. I'm curious how much boost you are planning as well. Any specs/goals?

[jimbyjimb]

Beautiful engine. O-rings a nice touch.

[marksport]

I like your approach. So now cooling of the pistons?

Well I haven't really thought about the piston cooling as I am running an external oil cooler. I was told that I wouldn't need squirters if I have a good cooling system. I will look at the motor again and talk to my machine shop about it.

Very impressive! Can't wait to see how this project goes. I'm curious how much boost you are planning as well. Any specs/goals?

I am planning to run 15psi as my fuel management maxes out at 16psi. Lack of options on fuel management is the limiting factor or I would consider higher boost and twin turbo. No real goals other than making it reliable and quick enough to take on the AMG S65.

[S13Flame]

Hmmmm an S65 will leave you for lunch my friend even with your supercharger. You would need at least 20psi of boost to keep up with that German Monster. Believe me I know....

[sijoko]

Hmmmm an S65 will leave you for lunch my friend even with your supercharger. You would need at least 20psi of boost to keep up with that German Monster. Believe me I know....

What are you basing your statement on? A VK45DE with 15 psi supercharged is going to put out approx. 600 hp. How much power is the S65 pushing and also how much does it weigh?

Anyway, this is an awesome project. Who wants to guess the quarter-mile times? I'm going to say below 12 secs with the full 15 psi and a proper transmission setup.

[konatown]

He'll be sacrificing some torque to the S65 AMG but will also have about 800lbs less to lug around.

I bet at 15PSI this car will be just as fast as the MB.

Awesome project, keep us updated!

[marksport]

Hmmmm an S65 will leave you for lunch my friend even with your supercharger. You would need at least 20psi of boost to keep up with that German Monster. Believe me I know....

I'm counting on the weight difference

AMG S65 est curb weight: 5035 lbInfiniti Q45 est curb weight: 3801 lb

At 8lbs on the smaller supercharger, this car was able to keep up with an 2008 BMW M6.

[SynisterQ]

Totally awesome!! Please keep us posted with more pictures and details as the project progresses. Are those Kenne Bell superchargers? Beautiful!!

[gammer_ghn]

napkins please!!! very nice! you are one of the first to do this!

[auditech10]

I have a video of a stock 2002-04 S600(v12 biturbo, but not the amg) do 11.8 in the quarter. I will bet my next years worth of salary that the AMG s65 will trounce over that, especially the newer one. None the less, for approx 1/3rd of the price of one, it will give it a run for the money!Awesome job, any info on the supercharger kit you are using? Is it the Kueliyan(sp?) setup that you are just making better???Cheers

[sijoko]

I have a video of a stock 2002-04 S600(v12 biturbo, but not the amg) do 11.8 in the quarter. I will bet my next years worth of salary that the AMG s65 will trounce over that, especially the newer one. None the less, for approx 1/3rd of the price of one, it will give it a run for the money!Awesome job, any info on the supercharger kit you are using? Is it the Kueliyan(sp?) setup that you are just making better???Cheers

The S65 does the quarter mile in the low 12 second range. Yes it's a powerful car but it weighs over 5000 lbs whereas the F50 weighs in at ~ 4000 lbs. I don't think a supercharged Q45 with approx. 600 hp will have any problems with it.

[qsiguy]

Lofty goal to beat a 6.0 liter V12 twin turbo 604 hp/738 lb torque supercar. But...if we don't make goals that push the limits we wouldn't make much progress would we?

It's probably safe to say you won't encounter too many of those cars and fewer still that will be willing to race you. Might have to go by the numbers, hp / 0-60 (have to beat 4.2 sec) / quarter mile (12.4 @118 mph according to C&D), etc.

Good luck!

[maxnix]

Well, if he doesn't get him on the straightaway, there is always the next corner.

[sijoko]

The S65 does 0-100 mph in 9.2 seconds. My car hits 100 mph in a tad bit over 10 seconds. So I can definitely see a supercharged F50 with 15 psi being faster than the S65.

Here's the performance stats for the S65:

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan

PRICE AS TESTED: $191,215 (base price: $184,875)

ENGINE TYPE: twin-turbocharged and intercooled SOHC 36-valve V-12, aluminum block and heads, port fuel injectionDisplacement: 365 cu in, 5980ccPower (SAE net): 604 bhp @ 4800 rpmTorque (SAE net): 738 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm

TRANSMISSION: 5-speed automatic with manumatic shifting

DIMENSIONS:Wheelbase: 124.6 in Length: 205.0 in Width: 73.7 in Height: 58.0 inCurb weight: 5081 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:Zero to 60 mph: 4.2 secZero to 100 mph: 9.2 secZero to 150 mph: 21.4 secStreet start, 5-60 mph: 4.4 secStanding ¼-mile: 12.4 sec @ 118 mphTop speed (governor limited): 158 mphBraking, 70-0 mph: 154 ftRoadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.90 g

FUEL ECONOMY:EPA city driving: 13 mpgC/D-observed: 12 mpg

http://www.caranddriver.com/re...html

[gammer_ghn]

am i the only one here that knows the Q will demolish that piece of crap MBZ come on now where is the Q love?? A F50 with 475hp will get 8.0021 pounds per HP where the S65 will only get 8.322. Yes i know torque is high on the S65amg but if he can achieve 500 hp he will get 7.602 and i think that is more than enough to wipe his *** with the S class! Dont forget a 4.5L V8 VS 6.0L I12 TT. Makes me chuckle when i look at these numbers and your paying the fraction of the price of the MBZ. Look at the link i provided and you will see that in 2005 if you were to buy a flagship car in around the same price as the F50 you would have won in every aspect. Just look at the weight difference and power since we do have the good toys that are easier to use than the Idrive.

EDIT: The links might look the same but they are not check all of them out.

http://autos.msn.com/research/...99706

http://autos.msn.com/research/...99706

http://autos.msn.com/research/...99706

[konatown]

At 15 PSI he should be making about 620-650 HP. He'll be wiping the road off with that Teutonic yacht.

[gammer_ghn]

that is true. Well i demand more pix!!! dont leave us hanging here!!!

[impreziv]

where are you guys getting these "15psi = 650hp" figures from?

psi doesnt mean jack, unless you know how much air mass is moved by the compressor at that pressure.

if the compressor he is using is only capable of pushing 30% more air than the engine normally consumes, its only going to make 30% more power.

to make 600hp, its going to need to flow more than twice the air.

most of the 600hp capable superchargers i'm familiar with are a fair bit larger than this one, judging by those pics of the blower.

i dont mean to rain on anyones parade, but seriously, 650hp from a blower that small?

[konatown]

I was hypothetically speaking, of course.

[impreziv]

yeh i understand this is hypothetical numbers. but hp is impossible to determine unless you know the specs of the compressor. i can't say anything for sure based on only looking at pictures, but that blower looks about the same size as something like what comes on a Pontiac GTP or a smaller Benz motor.

look at the blower on the 2009 Vette ZR1. that motor makes 630hp at 10.5psi, and that blower is significantly larger than this one, and it is intercooled.

edit:

if you want an expample of a blower from a smaller benz motor, look at the M111 engine. it has a supercharger, and at 10psi, most people cant get too much more than 200whp from the motor.

nevermind the fact that it is a smaller motor compaired to a V8, but at 10psi, the blower pushed enough air to make 200whp. if someone put that supercharger on a 4.5 V8, they would surely loose power, as the blower wouldnt be able to push more air than the engine normally breaths.


Modified by impreziv at 11:19 PM 5/14/2008

[sijoko]

Since we don't know the flow numbers on the compressor, we can't know for sure but as a rule if you double the atmospheric pressure going into an engine you will approximately double the horsepower. That means if you take a 340 hp engine and run 14.7 psi of boost with a properly sized supercharger you can expect 680 hp minus the power to run the supercharger. So, I think a guesstimate of 600 hp is not too far off the mark unless the supercharger he is going to use is flow limited.