VTC.... HOW LOUD DO THESE THINGS GET???

[Oklahoma_Highlander]

Hey everyone. I just bought a 1992 Nissan Maxima SE on Ebay. The seller stated it was "ticking" on the top end. TICKING MY BACKSIDE!! this sucker sounds like a jackhammer is inside the engine trying to get out. The car has 217K miles on it and has been very well maintained. The body and interior are immaculate. You could put this thing back on the show room floor.

The symptoms are:

Extremely loud knocking (sound like it is coming from the top end)Lack of powerErratic idle

There was a stack of reciepts with this car and one dated sometime in '06 said the car had a bad intake cam but one dated in '07 from a Nissan dealer stated they could not duplicate the customer's complaint. ???

The car does not have an oil pressure gauge only a light and it goes off immediately when the car is started.

Someone please help. Where should I start here? I am an accomplished mechanic but not familiar with these twin cam VTC deals.

Thanks,Bryce

[mtcookson]

I'm very sorry for the delayed reply.

The VTC's are a very common problem with the VE30DE. They can get bad enough to where the engine sound exactly like a small diesel (probably already does by the sounds of it).

You have a few options... it may be too late for this but you could "ground" the VTC's which are said to get rid of the noise as this disables them. It may not work being that they sound pretty bad but its pretty much a free modification so worth trying.

Second, you could rebuild the VTC's. If I remember correctly this will cost a few hundred dollars for the parts but should fix the issue.

Lastly, and probably my pick if the grounding doesn't work as your engine has quite a few miles on it, is to get a "JDM" VE30DE from an importer. These generally are low mileage engines in good shape and can usually be bought pretty cheap as there isn't a very large demand for them. You could probably pick one up for slightly more than rebuilding the VTC's. Just be sure to get the engine from a somewhat reputable importer so that you know you're going to get one in good shape.

I know the VTC's are definitely an issue, but you may also check the ignition coils for cracks. As a temporary fix you can tape them up with electrical tape and that generally fixes them for a while. That could be one reason for the lack of power and erratic idle as the VTC's generally don't screw with the power all that much.

Once you get it running correctly though... the VE makes for a very fun car. They are surprisingly quick for their rating of only 190 hp and tq. I absolutely love the 3rd gen Maxima's... used to have two. Still have one of them but its rusted out and not safe to drive due to living in a salt state for a while. It didn't have the VE but I've driven a Maxima with the VE and they're definitely fun.

Does yours have a 5-speed or auto?

[Oklahoma_Highlander]

It is a 5-speed. I had done my research and knew about theiting it off VTCs and figured that was the problem. That's why I bought it. When I first looked at it (after buying it) I thought CRAP!!! because it sounds sooooo loud. I would relate it to a rod knock but many times worse. Someone else has tried grounding the VTCs but as you said, I too think they are well beyond that. I guess I should buy a manual and take a look at what it will take to pull the cam gears. That way if I can't rebuild them myself I can at least save some labor having the dealer rebuilld them. This car is just soooo nice I cannot see just writing it off as scrap. "Showroom" is not an exaggeration with this car. I actually bought it for my daughter after she sold her 1991 Firebird. She is 17 right now but I think this car could conceivably last her through her 20's. Thanks for the help, I greatly appreciate it.

Bryce

[mtcookson]

Check out our FSM section here: http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM (sometimes they don't like opening up when clicking on them but if you save them they will work just fine)

There should be a manual in there for a 94 Maxima which should cover just about everything needed. If you need any other assistance just let me know.

[Chris92SE]

I haven't looked in the engine section in a long time...

If you are an accomplished mechanic, you might consider rebuilding the VTCs if you are up to it.

There are 3 timing chains and two VTCs (front and rear). You would also need to replace the chain tensioners.

The parts, if you can find them (most dealers won't get them anymore) cost like $400.

here is the TSB -- a "how-to" if you will -- for rebuilding the VTCs.

http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/tsb/NTB95-022.pdf

If you go through some stickies and do searches on maxima.org, you can get a lot more info.

[Oklahoma_Highlander]

Well, I think it is worse than first thought. I have finally got a few minutes to look / listen to the motor. I wish I hadn't. There is absolutely no noise from the VTCs. This noise is comint from the top roughly center of the rear head. It also appears that whatever it is is dragging the motor down and causing it to have a loss of power and not idle. If I had to guess without pulling anything apart so far, I would say it had some major problems in the camshaft area. Possibly bearings. I will update as developements occur.

Thanks for all the replies and helpful information.

Bryce

[Chris92SE]

If the car is in as great of condition as you say, you might want to consider rebuilding the engine or installing a JDM engine. If you go the latter route, there are some things you need to do and things you should do, but engines can be found for a reasonable price. IMO, it's easier to swap an engine than to tear one apart and put in new VTCs. haha

[Oklahoma_Highlander]

Well, after pulling the intake and valve covers, I pulled the spark plugs the backside plug on the driver's side looked like it may have been hit ever so lightly and pushed the ground tab into the electrode????? I don't know if this happened outside the car from some wrench monkey or in the cylinder. but that is about the area the knocking was coming from. The engine has 3 brand new timing chains and all new tensioners...... things that make you go hmmmmmmm........ Is this an interference engine? My guess would be yes. I just wonder if they snapped a timing chain and had the chains replaced hoping that nothing had happened. I also found a cracked coil on the front bank. I think there are too many questions with this engine. I have found a VE30DE from Japan with guaranteed less than 40K and tested with a 12 month warr for $850 shipped to my door in OK. Anyone know where there might be a better deal than that?

Thanks for everyone's help

[bimrtech]

"Extremely loud knocking (sound like it is coming from the top end)"+ "Spark plug been hit ever so lightly and pushed the ground tab into the electrode?"= Could be a Spun/shot/bad rod bearing.... Have you checked to see if you have any bearing material in the pan?

You can sometimes check a bad rod bearing early on by killing the spark or fuel (unplug the coil/spark plug wire or injector) for the suspected cylinder. If the noise magically goes away, then you know that rod bearing is close/has failed. If it has gone to far, it will actually allow the piston to come up to far out of the hole and smack the bottom of the head and possibly the spark plug and the above test will not always work. Knowing Nissan and my last engine, it will run great with this condition. I pulled apart my great running but loud vg to find (wow I can't believe this thing runs!!!) I build several SBC's for circle track and know that they would never run in the condition my vg was in.I was a former Nissan Tech several years ago when these things were new, and now wow, I continue to be amazed by them.

[sr20daze]

i had the same problem with mine, sorry i never took it apart to check what was wrong with the motor. i just got a better one in the junk with the 5 speed for 200 bucks. it had 90k miles

[ROSPEEDMAX92]

aww man !?!?!... the ol VTC rattle/knock noise. It`s a sickness w/ the VE30DE. I have`nt done one of those before and I work in a Nissan dealer...lol The ol school techs told me that it was a time consuming task. Some of the guys are right tho.. time and money to fix that ... might as well go JDM. Just remember that there are parts to swap form OEM engine so dont throw nothin out