What snow/winter tires on your Rogue?

[Msdarkdiva]

I’ve been using the Continentals that came with my Rogue so far this winter, but next winter I want to buy a set of four winter tires. Is it me, or does there seem to be a lack of selection for winter tires available in the stock 225/60/17 size (at least when I look at Tire Rack and 1010Tire)?

So I have 3 questions:What winter tires do you have on your Rogue?What size are they?How is the performance?

I’m looking for a good snow and ice tire. I’ve been considering the Bridgestone Blizzak DM-Z3 because of the reviews (Consumer Reports, APA (in Canada), Consumer Search) but I would have to switch to a 215/70R16 wheel size (which appears to be acceptable according to EddNog’s Aftermarket Wheel & Tire Fitment Chart post zerothread/293478. Please let me know if I’m wrong about the sizing).

Here in Montreal we have received 348.4 cm/137.2 inches of snow for the season and it ain’t over yet- so a good winter tire is a must!

Mother Nature hates us!

[Cristen]

I have Toyo Observe G02 Plus in the stock 17 size on steel wheels. Got them from the Nissan dealer.

I really love these winter tires. Feels like driving on dry pavement in the worst weather - my hubby now says the Rogue "eats snow for breakfast"
Modified by Cristen at 7:47 PM 3/12/2008

[blaruffa]

Dunlap Winter Sports

[philipa_240sx]

IMHO, I would stay away from Bridgestone Blizzak. Here is why:

The Blizzak is made up of 2 rubber compounds: The top multicell layer which has thousands of tiny micropores that help 'grip' the road, snow and ice. The lower layer is a conventional rubber compund and is harder than the top layer. When new, the Blizzak is probably one of the best winter tires. But once the tire is worn past 50%, the mutlicell layer is gone and the remaining tire does not grip anywhere near as good. How fast the tire wears depends on temperature (warmer = faster wear), driving habits, proper wheel alignment, and tire rotataion. I have only used 1 set of Blizzaks, and they were gone within one winter. If you are willing to replace your tires every 1-2 winters to maintain the performance, then go for the Blizzak.

My personal choice is the Nokian Hakkapeliitta.

http://www.nokiantires.com/

They are based in Finland and are the only tire mfg that has a permanant outfoor winter tire testing facility... they are close to the arctic circle after all. Nokian has been manufacturing winter tires since 1936 when the first Hakkapeliitta tire was introduced. I have personally used 3 different sets of Hakkapeliitta's over the years and I typically get 4 winters out of them (November-April). I drive about 20,000km (12,000mi) each winter so each set lasts about 80,000km (48,000mi). Proper alignment, rotation , and tire pressure are key here. The 4th year can be iffy sometimes as the rubber hardens as the tire ages. Nokian has spent alot of time engineering a tire that works well both when new or 75% worn.

As for performance, I feel they are among the best. The Blizzak may have an edge on ice, but the Hakkapeliitta's excel on just about everything else. And when the tire does slip, just let off the gas and it immediately regains grip. It also complements the ABS very well. I imagine the VDC system will work better as well with the extra grip. The only downside (and this is typical of most winter tires) is the very soft tread compounds and tire design make for a 'squirmy' feel. The steering response becomes a bit numb, and the vehicle seems to 'float' like an old car with worn a suspension.

I am already planning for Hakkapeliitta's for the Rogue. The current Hakkapeliitta SUV model is available in the 215/70R16 size only. However I believe it will be replaced by the new new Hakka Sport Utility 5 by next winter. It comes in both 215/70R16 and 225/60R17 which are perfect for the Rogue.

Ok, do I sound like a Nokian Tire rep now? Just kidding!

As for the other models, I have not driven on any of them (except Blizzak) so I have no experience.

[Cristen]

Here in Montreal we have received 348.4 cm/137.2 inches of snow for the season and it ain’t over yet- so a good winter tire is a must!

Mother Nature hates us!

Here in Ottawa we have you beat at over 410cm of snow!

[Msdarkdiva]

Here in Ottawa we have you beat at over 410cm of snow!

You win! Yeah, I've heard you've been breaking records- just don't send any of it here!

[Msdarkdiva]

philipa

I have read that the Nokian Hakkapeliitta is an excellent tire (top rated) for snow conditions but for wet / dry pavement they are not the greatest and should be taken off as soon as it begins to warm up. How do they handle during the spring thaw (or do you take them off by then)?

I mean this winter has been hell, but last winter, we didn't get our first serious snowfall until the first weeks of January. Do they still perform well when it's cold but road conditions are dry?

Oh and thanks for the post philipa- it was very thorough (as always)!
Modified by Msdarkdiva at 10:00 PM 3/12/2008

[2cv]

toyo observe here too in 16 .very happy in our snowy winter.

[Msdarkdiva]

Hey! Another Montreal Rogue owner! Cool- I've seen a few of us around town, what color is yours?

...I'll gladly give you my share of snow each winter if you'd like!

Like Cristen, do you find your Rogue "eats snow for breakfast" in the Toyos? How is the noise level in them? How do they handle?

[2cv]

yeah , i ve seen several rogue toothe rogue is black .the ride is smooth and quiet with the toyo tires. they are doing pretty good in the snow .as cristen wrote it s like driving on a dry pavement .even if we feel confident the most important is to drive safely. i confirm the rogue eats the snow . i ve heard it thinking : " please another snow storm i m starving "

[bkhann]

I beg to differ on the Blizzak studless snow/ice tires not being durable.

I just purchased a set of P215/65R-17 Blizzak WS-60 UNI-T snow/ice tires. We went with a slightly narrower and taller (same height as 225x60x17) tire. The narrower tire does a little better job of going through the snow without plowing over the snow.

As far as tire life is concerned: the key to long winter tire life is to put them on late, and take them off early. Here in Michigan we typically put the tires on in Mid December and remove them early in March. This probably gets us through 90% of the winter driving. On my last set of Blizzaks I found that after 8 seasons (yes 8!) there was still 70% of the tread remaining. We also feel that snow/ice tires are cost effective because we are comfortable running our summer tires all the way down to 2/32's of tread. There is no fear of running low tread tires into the winter as we have the Blizzaks to switch over to.

Hope this is helpful.

BD

[Cristen]

Mine go on in early November and come off mid April, generally speaking - although this winter has been a bit of an anomoly with so much so, so they might be on later than mid april.

[philipa_240sx]

Mine go on in early November and come off mid April, generally speaking - although this winter has been a bit of an anomoly with so much so, so they might be on later than mid april.

Same here. Winter tires are only used during cold winter months. Not year round. You will need to swp them every spring and fall. If you were to run them year round, the only issue is they won't last very long. Otherwise they will drive and handle just fine.

To save yourself some trouble, get some steel rims for your winter tires. Not only will it save your alloys, the cost of mounting/dismounting tires twice a year adds up.

RE: Blizzaks

I did not have good experience with them. Others may have fared better. Keep in mind I put 20,000km (12,000mi) on my tires each winter... that is several winters worth of driving for some.

[Cristen]

To save yourself some trouble, get some steel rims for your winter tires. Not only will it save your alloys, the cost of mounting/dismounting tires twice a year adds up.

They are on steel rims.

[philipa_240sx]

Hint: the S model Rogue uses the same steel wheels as the late model Altima: 16x6.5

Start searching auto recyclers for these wheels for next winter. New they cost $50ea (CDN).

[RogueGirl]

For my part, I am looking at the new michelin X-Ice Xi2 as I drive mainly on highways (first to be cleaned and often dry between snowfalls) and its seems to be the best for these conditions (not too much driving on small roads up north).

I got free 16 inches rims with the car and I have a hard time understanding something: Costco told me the 215/70R16 in Xi2 is $188/tire ($11 for installation included), $213 for the 225/60R17 but when I look in the michelin website, this size is not listed How much for the winter tires from the dealer?

Interesting to know that even the snow tires are cheaper in the US. If you do buy them, could you share your experience with us? Where did you buy them? At what price?

Thanks.

Hi again Pescakl1

So the Michelin X-Ice Xi2 is available at Costco. For my BabyRogue, which is a SL AWD the price is 215$ per tire (not installed, no rim). I have seen this same tire on Costco.com (US) and they are 155$. not too shabby of a discount and they say you can save 60$ on a set of 4 purchase (not sure how this is applicable). Since I'm going to Boston in 2 weeks, I might do that. Costco card owner can buy to any stores in the world (at least that's what they say on their website)

At the dealer, I have asked about their offers. They have 3 types of snow tires that fits my Rogue, varying from 135$ to 165$ per tire. Wayyyyy cheaper but I'm not sure they are as good as Michelin ICE. I don't have the brand names with me but I think I remember Toyo being the middle quality at 150$.

well, I hope this helps you make your choice I know I'm still looking and I'll write back if I find anything interesting

[philipa_240sx]

Nokian has just released thier a new Hakkapeliitta for 2008/09: The R series. Nokian is claiming improved dry/wet weather perfromance over the previous RSi model:

THE NEW, STUDLESS ALTERNATIVE FOR NORDIC WINTER DRIVING: NOKIAN HAKKAPELIITTA REfficient yet safe rolling on ice, snow or wet surfaces

The new Nordic studless winter tyre Nokian Hakkapeliitta R takes on the challenges of winter driving with a firm grip. Stable and precise, it rolls lightly and saves fuel. The new tyre’s wet grip properties showcase a long leap in development. In terms of grip in extreme conditions, the new tyre is even better than its predecessor, the widely praised test topper Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSi. The new studless alternative is a genuine member of the Hakkapeliitta family, designed to function in all winter conditions and extreme weather.

High grip – low emissions

The sidewall of the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is labelled with the promising words ultra low rolling resistance. This means that the friction tyre rolls very efficiently without wasting energy. From the driver’s perspective, this translates into economic and environmentally friendly driving with up to half a litre lower fuel consumption per hundred kilometres. Consequently, traffic-related harmful emissions are reduced.

The low rolling resistance of the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R has not been achieved by compromising on grip properties. Notwithstanding the excellent rolling properties, the tyre surpasses its predecessor’s braking ability on icy, snowy and, especially, wet surfaces.

The grip holds in freezing temperatures and rain

Consumers expect good winter tyres to hold their grip, even in demanding conditions. Grip in extreme conditions and reliable behaviour in any weather and on any surface were key focus areas in the development of the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R.

The climate change is making winters more and more unpredictable. Extreme phenomena are becoming more common and sudden changes in weather and temperature are frequent. Freezing, drizzling rain and temperatures bouncing up and down around zero degrees celcius make roads very slippery. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is a friction tyre that masters the whole range of winter weathers, from relatively warm and rainy to freezing frost.

The improved grip properties are the result of a new, Nordic winter compound. The new-generation tread rubber compound features a number of new technical elements. The combination of silica and canola oil enhances wet and ice grip and improves tear resistance.

New dimension in wet grip: siping that pumps water away

Nokian Tyres’ studless winter tyres have received excellent ratings for ice and snow grip in car magazines’ comparison tests for years. When developing the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R, wet grip was chosen as a key focus area, and significant improvement was achieved.

The patented pump siping enhances wet and ice grip. The tread blocks of the tyre shoulder have pocket-like sipes that remove – pump – water from the road surface and ensure firm contact.

The directional tread pattern is covered by a dense net of sipes, which further enhances the grip abilities. Efficient braking grip is achieved thanks to the brake boosters that proved to be effective in the previous studless Hakkapeliitta model, for which they were developed. The same technical solution has been implemented in the new tyre.

Predictability and safety, even in sudden situations

Nordic friction tyres have sometimes been criticised for poor driving properties; they have been called imprecise and numb. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R wants to change these opinions.

“We have developed a studless tyre for Nordic winter driving with predictable and logical steering on snow, ice and sludge alike. The tyre must function precisely and predictably when changing lanes, passing cars and taking curves,” says Product Development Manager Teppo Huovila.

Good driving response from the surface is one of the properties of a reliable and safe winter tyre. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R offers a precise steering response that helps the driver detect changes in the friction level. The grip range is wide, which helps the driver react to grip changes in time.

The structural and tread pattern solutions of the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R guarantee excellent dodging and steering properties and good driving stability. Designed especially for friction tyres, the multi-layer surface structure and tread compound take driving stability to a unique level: the tyre remains stable regardless of the varying winter conditions. The tread block geometry improves steering, even on grooved roads.

This new tyre belongs to the speed category R (170 km/h), which is higher than in most competing products.

The widest size range on the market next autumn

One novelty in the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is the ultra low rolling resistance lable on the sidewall. The Driving Safety Indicator and placement memory developed by Nokian Tyres are standard features that facilitate tyre maintenance.

The Driving Safety Indicator (DSI) indicates the number of millimetres left on the tread. The placement memory is for marking the tyre mounting location under the car, which is helpful when changing tyres for the winter season.

The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is manufactured using non-toxic chemicals and harmless, purified oils.

Nokian Tyres offers the widest range of winter tyre sizes on the market: 44 sizes ranging from 14” to 20”. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R will be available in tyre outlets in the autumn of 2008. The key market areas for the tyre are the Nordic countries and Russia.

R SUV Press Release:

NOKIAN HAKKAPELIITTA R SUV - NEW FRICTION TYRE FOR SAFE AND ENJOYABLE SUV DRIVING IN THE WINTER

Nordic SUV drivers have been expecting a reliable studless winter tyre for their vehicles. An expert in winter conditions, Nokian Tyres has developed the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R SUV, a tyre with the right character for demanding winter conditions. The novelty in the SUV offering relies on the same innovations as in the passenger car friction tyres. The Hakkapeliitta R SUV is a top product tailored for sports utility vehicles that guarantees pleasant driving all winter.

Managed balance of sturdiness and safety

Thanks to the tread pattern and compound innovations, the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R SUV surpasses the standard level of friction tyres’ ice and wet grip. The all-new Nordic rubber compound features a combination of silica and canola oil in addition to natural rubber. This compound improves the tyre’s grip on ice and snow and enhances its tear resistance.

In addition to the winter grip properties, the tyre development efforts focused on driving stability and wet grip. A sturdy and stable driving response is particularly important when driving a big and heavy SUV. An easily detectable grip threshold and an easy-to-feel, precise steering response from the tyres improve control over the car, especially in slippery winter conditions.

The SUV tyres also need durable sidewalls. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R SUV features a strong double-carcass construction tailored for SUV use in all sizes. The tyre sidewalls are made using an extra durable rubber compound with high cut resistance.

The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R SUV delivers the basic promise of the Hakkapeliitta tyre family: it is a genuine winter tyre for northern conditions. The new SUV Hakkapeliitta functions very well on snow and bare roads. It also has excellent grip in icy and wet conditions.

Low rolling resistance reduces fuel consumption

Nordic friction tyres usually score the lowest ratings in rolling resistance comparisons between tyre types. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R SUV rolls easily, i.e. it has a very low rolling resistance. This reduces fuel consumption and carbon dioxide emissions.

Like all Nokian Tyres’ products, the new SUV tyre is manufactured with respect for the environment, with no harmful, carcinogenic oils. All plasticiser oils used in the manufacture are purified and harmless.

Size range covers the SUV fleet

Thanks to the most extensive and versatile size offering, the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R SUV fits almost all SUVs. There are 17 sizes ranging from 16” to 20”, and most of them are XL-labelled, which means they have sufficient load-bearing capacity, even for heavier SUV models.

The new SUV friction tyre belongs to the speed category R (max 170 km/h). The corresponding competing products are usually rated in the lower Q (max 160 km/h).

Retail sales of Nokian Hakkapeliitta R SUV tyres will begin in the Nordic countries, Russia and other major market regions of Nokian Tyres in the spring of 2008.

I am waiting for the local Nokian dealer to get thier stock in and I will be placing my order. They have quoted me $205/tire (215/70R16) including install and balancing, taxes are extra.

I will post a review of the tires once I have them installed. Once we get a good snowfall, I will update with snow/ice performance.

[Pescakl1]

Since I'm going to Boston in 2 weeks, I might do that. Costco card owner can buy to any stores in the world (at least that's what they say on their website)

Thanks for all the information and please tell us how that works out.I may go to New York mid October, so I may do the same.

the S model Rogue uses the same steel wheels as the late model Altima: 16x6.5

I suppose there are the rims I got with the car.Rocket J Dawg found a nice website, http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html, and I found out that 225/65R16 tires are closer in dimension to the 225/60R17 tires than the S model 215/70R16 (0.4% difference instead of 0.8%).

Do you think there is enough tolerance to install 225/65R16 tires on these 16x6.5 rims?

[Rocket J Dawg]

Thanks for all the information and please tell us how that works out.I may go to New York mid October, so I may do the same.

I suppose there are the rims I got with the car.Rocket J Dawg found a nice website, http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html, and I found out that 225/65R16 tires are closer in dimension to the 225/60R17 tires than the S model 215/70R16 (0.4% difference instead of 0.8%).

Do you think there is enough tolerance to install 225/65R16 tires on these 16x6.5 rims?

I found another link for you Pescakl1. This one will help you determine the correct rim width for specific tires.http://www.yokohamatire.com/cu....aspx

[Pescakl1]

This one will help you determine the correct rim width for specific tires.http://www.yokohamatire.com/cu....aspx

You are good!

[Rocket J Dawg]

Now I have a quick question. Does anyone know what the bolt pattern is for the 17" wheels (5/110, 5/112, 5/114.3)? I swung by my dealer today and asked the service advisor and he looked at me like I had two heads I swear this guy is only 16.

Thanks

[Pescakl1]

My turn to help :

In this thread, zerothread/293478, the first two posts say that the pattern is 5/114.3, offset of +40mm.

[Rocket J Dawg]

Many thanks my friend. It would appear that we both jump between the two forums

[burglekutt]

Nokian has just released thier a new Hakkapeliitta for 2008/09: The R series. Nokian is claiming improved dry/wet weather perfromance over the previous RSi model:

I am waiting for the local Nokian dealer to get thier stock in and I will be placing my order. They have quoted me $205/tire (215/70R16) including install and balancing, taxes are extra.

Hey philipa_240sx, I have some buddies in Canada and they make trips just across the border to pick up Nokians. We deal with Josh at tiresbyweb and he takes care of us. Thought I would pass it along since it looks like you are paying alot more up there for the best tires. It may be well worth a drive:

http://www.tiresbyweb.com/p-71....aspx

I didn't realize how sweet the Hakkapeliitta R is until I read the press release. Thank you for the info.

[philipa_240sx]

Hey philipa_240sx, I have some buddies in Canada and they make trips just across the border to pick up Nokians. We deal with Josh at tiresbyweb and he takes care of us. Thought I would pass it along since it looks like you are paying alot more up there for the best tires. It may be well worth a drive:

http://www.tiresbyweb.com/p-71....aspx

I didn't realize how sweet the Hakkapeliitta R is until I read the press release. Thank you for the info.

Thanks for the info.

By the time you add installation & balancing ($15/tire) plus our exchange rate ($0.96CDN = $1USD), it works out to $175/tire. I would save about $30/tire as compared to the $205 I was quoted (includes installation & balancing). Problem is I live about 2 hours from the US border... so I have to factor in gas and my time. It's just not worth the time and effort for $120 in savings. Thanks for the tip anyway.

[Msdarkdiva]

We deal with Josh at tiresbyweb and he takes care of us. Thought I would pass it along since it looks like you are paying alot more up there for the best tires. It may be well worth a drive:

http://www.tiresbyweb.com/p-71....aspx

That is a good tip! I live a little closer to the border so this may be well worth my while, even with our weakening dollar!

...And yes thanks philipa_240sx for the info. I didn't bother buying mine last season. Now it looks like it's a good thing that I waited!

[mstrmstr]

I agree with Phillipa..Nokia Haps are the way on snow.Blizzaks are best here though since we have a frozen mix with slush and the Haps will skid a lot more.. we live with short tire life for a longer REAL life!

I spent a fair amount of time doing real life checking and observing tire effect.. The haps will throw more snow from the tire even at low speed to clear the tread..I did not want a tire that collected snow like rolling a snowman..

Check snowtire.info for real life reviews
Modified by mstrmstr at 8:47 AM 9/22/2008

[philipa_240sx]

snowtire.info has some information although it's somewhat dated.

I am still wating for stock on the Nokian Hakka R SUV. Should be in very soon.

BTW, the stock Conti's are getting worse as they wear. I only have 28,000km on them and they are wearing fast. Traction on wet roads seems to be suffering now as the VDC light flashes quite frequently during moderate acceleration. I am not impressed! Last winter, I was running a full tread depth on the Conti's and was having traction issues. I won't chance it this winter... it's too dangerous now that more than 1/3 of the tread is gone.

[burglekutt]

Thanks for the info.

By the time you add installation & balancing ($15/tire) plus our exchange rate ($0.96CDN = $1USD), it works out to $175/tire. I would save about $30/tire as compared to the $205 I was quoted (includes installation & balancing). Problem is I live about 2 hours from the US border... so I have to factor in gas and my time. It's just not worth the time and effort for $120 in savings. Thanks for the tip anyway.

$120 is $120. I see your point on the factor of gas and time. Does not take long to add up to $120 in gas these days. I checked the snowtire.info and it has some good info!

[Pescakl1]

I spent a fair amount of time doing real life checking and observing tire effect..

Did you have the opportunity to check the Michelin X-Ice? Not necessarily the Xi2 as it is so new.

Do you have an opinion on them? I am looking for a quiet tire on dry pavement giving good fuel mileage. Any recommendations?