The World of Holset Turbo Charging

[Biggamehit]

Disclaimer: this is info is based of what i have done. im not bringing you ideas from Bobby,Mike and Ricky. im not trying to sway your decisions, this is just useful info for someone looking to get into the Holset arena. if you wanna spend 5 billion dollars on a turbo kit only to be let down go ahead, We all still love you.

Hello

as many of you have come to know, i don't exactly follow the "traditional" methods of modifying a car. I use whats available to me and don't mind getting my hands dirty creating my own parts etc. The reason that I bring you this info is to explain my finding and more importantly my hands on experience with Holset turbo's. i will try to be as brief as possible because the links will provide more pictures and info for you to read and understand.

These turbos simply are great alternatives to the more popular Garrett, Turbonetic's, etc turbo's. what a lot of people don't take into account is, the holset's are made for much much bigger diesel engines. as you will see the HX series turbo has a wide range of turbo's that are matched to the diesel motor in relation to their displacement.

you may ask yourself.. hmmmm a hx30 is made for a 5.0 liter diesel engine and my car only has an 4g63, Sr20, Ca18, B16, B18, Vg30, Rb20 etc etc... you cant really go off of the size of the engine but you also have to use common knowledge. you cant take a Hx40 and put it on a D16 and expect it to spool fully at 2000 rpms lol. Also take into account your application: auto-x, drag, road racing, drifting etc.. they all have different requirements of your car in relation to suspension, wheel and tire choice etc....... whole different world.

ill just quote from Engine Tips.com they said it better than i could. and then ill get on with the write up.Quote »"Just a quickie---We work, on a daily basis, w/ diesels that average 60-70+HP per liter at rated outputs. Turbo charging and low temp aftercooling has played an enormous part in allowing these types of outputs to become realistic and reliable..

As for "low-end" power/torque, again the turbo has been the one of the biggest contributors as to having a power curve with this low end power--With engines rated at 1800 to 3000 RPM max ( 25-30+++ PSI at WOT) , we see boost starting to rise rapidly from 1000 rpm and up with 15-20+ PSI in the 1500-1700 RPM ranges on many engines..

Newer waste gate technology, new or variable shaped air turbo inlets, and new ideas in turbo air mapping has allowed new designs to give this low-end boost while controlling max boost pressures at high speeds---

In a nutshell, turbos do not just engage or "turn on"--They come up to speed based on design and the power that the engine needs to deliver whether that is at a low RPM below peak torque, in mid-RPM's at peak torque, or at WOT..

Tony "

"A diesel engine pumps 100% of it's air capacity 100% of the time while a gasser pumps 100% of its capacity only at wide open throttle. Reason out your question based on that tip.

rmw "

[/quote]Initial Info/facts--------------------------these site were helpful to me when i really got into holset's/turbo systems some years back

1.Cummins.com

2.dodgeram.org

3.Garrett Turbo System 101

quick chart i made so you don't have to link up to the site if you don't want to

Boost levels for respective dodge ram truck years..... use this to somewhat assist you...but note. psi levels are met much faster with diesel motors. You can use the stock wastegate, but i just would not do it on the bigger holset's.. the chances of spiking is much higher. the W in the turbo name stands for "Wastegate"

these turbos are cheap for us because they are for a truck application.... and not really built for after market performance in mind. 4-6 cly Mustang guys have been running holset's for many years now

these turbos are awesome quality... one night while going home after welding up my exhaust..... i noticed my oil pressure was acting up.... so i pull over and wow ..... big hole in my oil pan from a puncture. i was driving at a very high rate of speed... lets just say my turbo spooled for little over a mile with no oil at all... I took it apart and everything was fine.

for smaller applications

the hx30 goes unnoticed and the hx25 is another good one...

here is a picture of the hx25... will bolt right up with T2 flanged manifold





Where to get them?---------------------------i found a H1C on eBay that i was looking for when i built my turbo kit some years back. To my luck not only did i find it, but the shop was located in Rockville MD. I talked with the owner of the company and he allowed me to come check it out before buying. The turbo was as described, " zero shaft play no leaks etc". He also allowed me to browse through his shop freely and was very excited to show me his latest turbos that had Zero miles on them etc.

This shop houses EVERY holset ever made (H1C,H1E,H2C,H2D,H2E,HX30,HX35,HX40,HX50,HX55,HX60,WHX80,HX82........... SOURCE) and many OEM Garrett chargers. some are rebuilds/parts only. some are in fair to new shape. many of the BIG ones power Detroit trucks, Earth Movers, Marine equipment etc.

they are great project turbos for DIY guys/gals and cost way less then the leading brands and are the same quality and better in some aspects. many of them that you see in the pictures that can actually fit in our cars without major modification are mainly T2,T3 and T4 flanged with either 4/5 bolt and v-band exhaust outlets. for the most part you can use standard feed and return oil flanges. some are threaded for use with banjo bolts. It takes minor modification ( drilling, tapping, converters etc) to make them work

GoldFarbinc ebay storeGoldFarbinc Main site

More Images

Whats needed to Install the Turbo?-----------------------------------------------

As with all turbo setup's a few things will be the same universal and those things are:

Turboexhaust manifoldoil linesfittingsIntercooler and pippingWastegate ( internal or external )

I initially thought that getting this revhard manifold would free up the space i needed, but for my application, the turbo was to close to the master cylinder. I had to create my own manifold. Some of you guys will luck up and have a manifold design that allows you to run the holset of your choice with little or no modification

in this picture i still have three other important parts that led to an quick fabrications of parts for my turbo set which are the turbo, v-band kit and the 180deg mandrel bend for my downpipe.



however you must make sure you have the correct flange type.. common holset flange types are T2, T3 and T4 just like the popular Garrett etc turbos

this is the manifold kit that i got. the reason it worked so good for me was, i was able to mount the turbo where i wanted. there is nothing at all wrong with pre-made manifolds. but when you get into modification, nothing goes as planned, so it would have sucked to spend more money on another manifolds and not get the fitments i needed. there are Log manifolds available that could have fit my H1C, but they were like 400 dollars+ and i had the means to make my own.

Jgstools.com

where turbo is placed ( ill see if i can find a picture of the finished product)

Oil inlet and outlet

this is what holset's commonly look like in this department.. as you can see, the outlet has standard 12mm bolt threads and you can mate the T3 oil outlet flange to it. the inlet however has a Banjo style fitting.... you could fit a T3 inlet flange on there, but you would have to drill and tap it



Fittings

all you have to do is get a 12mmX1.5 to 1/8thnpt reducer fitting. these are commonly found in plumbing stores, you can get it at home depot and it will not break. or you can get a fitting from auto stores that go from 12mmX1.5 to -3an or -4an

looks like this somewhat with smaller inlet of course.

look at the oil feed location of my turbo you will see it installed with the 1/8thnpt fitting screwed into it

Oil lines

standard -3an or -4an feed and -10an return which you can get from summit or eBay pre-made, or you can make them yourself like i did... i also have a oil jet kit that allows me to adjust oil pressure.

Jgstools.com

Turbo exhaust modification

with the holset's you will find out that they are v-band style for the most part, it will vary. this is the way i had to attack my setup.my v-band idea didn't work as planed because my turbo has an 3in outlet and a 2.5in indentation that made it impossible to clamp and join my downpipe.........sooo........ i had to weld the flange onto the turbo like so. the pictures will explain the rest.











dump/Downpipe

Now we all know when you work on cars for a long time.. sometimes things will fall into place, but that only happens when mars aligns with the earth and all that jazz.

more than likely you will have to create your own dump/downpipe and or tweak what you have. this is what i did with the help of a buddy and a cool *** tig welder. i didn't make a divorced downpipe, its all one piece





(the oil is gone.... had a nasty oil leak) Had to bang on frame rail a bit to clear space for the exhaust

Final Product





NOTE:

time to gather parts 2 weeksdowntime: 2-3 hours

If you have question about anything ill try my best to answer it..

later

Carry on
Modified by Biggamehit at 9:31 PM 5/13/2009

[C-Kwik]

While a diesel turbo can work perfectly fine on a gas motor, the same rules apply. That is, it should be matched to the motor to provide good efficiency where it is needed. I would have to see compressor maps of these turbos, but I would question how well these turbos might match up against a KA, particularly in low to moderate boost levels. The Ram Diesel specs indicate that it makes the power a KA might at as low as 7 psi while reaching boost levels of up to 20+ psi. In other words, these turbos may have their peak efficiency islands at low airflow rates for a given pressure ratio. Which makes sense as truck motors typically make better use of having lots of torque at low-rpm's, providing relatively low HP-to-displacement numbers. I'm no expert on diesels, but I'd imagine there is some difference in energy output compared to gasoline as well, which could require much different air/fuel ratios between the two. Of course if Direct Injection Gasoline engines are any indication, diesels may be able to run quite lean as well. It's probably quite a complicated comparison. And I'm not saying a turbo that is primarily used for diesel motors can't be used in a gas motor, it's still important to map out the motor on the turbo's compressor map to get a good grasp on how well it might work.

[Biggamehit]

great additional info bro

yea there are maps available but i didn't want to add them..

for compressor maps just Google it key word

Holset HXxx+compressor maps

yea the h1c was picked because after viewing maps i knew it would work good with my motor. and its awesome power in all ranges. also the way i built my manifold compliments it. however im starting to wonder how much better or worst it would respond if i had added the twin scroll flange..

[480sx]

Gotta love the DIY ! Nice writeup

Man that strut bar is sweet ^^.

[Reno]

I'm Really Digging This Write-up I demand a Sticky... Seriously!

Man i see it now a FCW crank, built block ,crower v3 cams and a tasty Holset Hx40 xD please sticky?

[Biggamehit]

Gotta love the DIY ! Nice writeup

Man that strut bar is sweet ^^.

hahaha man thats a bubble gum machine strut bar..... ill pick up some real stuff when i get back from iraq.

thanks for viewing guys, this is more information to add to the database so when people search they have something to see. I mean there is already tons of holset info here but its spread across about 30 threads lol.

[nelson8708]

While a diesel turbo can work perfectly fine on a gas motor, the same rules apply. That is, it should be matched to the motor to provide good efficiency where it is needed. I would have to see compressor maps of these turbos, but I would question how well these turbos might match up against a KA, particularly in low to moderate boost levels. The Ram Diesel specs indicate that it makes the power a KA might at as low as 7 psi while reaching boost levels of up to 20+ psi. In other words, these turbos may have their peak efficiency islands at low airflow rates for a given pressure ratio. Which makes sense as truck motors typically make better use of having lots of torque at low-rpm's, providing relatively low HP-to-displacement numbers. I'm no expert on diesels, but I'd imagine there is some difference in energy output compared to gasoline as well, which could require much different air/fuel ratios between the two. Of course if Direct Injection Gasoline engines are any indication, diesels may be able to run quite lean as well. It's probably quite a complicated comparison. And I'm not saying a turbo that is primarily used for diesel motors can't be used in a gas motor, it's still important to map out the motor on the turbo's compressor map to get a good grasp on how well it might work.

I am in the 77% island from 7psi up to 25psi. After about 30psi you hit the surge line. You are defintally correct. For my turbo i cant get into the 78% island becase the motor just doesnt flow enough cfm. Just do a little research and you can get a great turbo. If i switch turbo's i am thinking a HX40 or HX52 for power or a HY35 if i want quick boost. The HX turbos are more efficent so you can reach a higher island with the same cfm as a H series.

[WDRacing]

I edited and rehosted the graph so it's alot easier to read. I'll be adding this to the FAQ, well done

[Reno]

I am in the 77% island from 7psi up to 25psi. After about 30psi you hit the surge line. You are defintally correct. For my turbo i cant get into the 78% island becase the motor just doesnt flow enough cfm. Just do a little research and you can get a great turbo. If i switch turbo's i am thinking a HX40 or HX52 for power or a HY35 if i want quick boost. The HX turbos are more efficent so you can reach a higher island with the same cfm as a H series.

HX52 on ka??

[nelson8708]

HX52 on ka??

One of my buddies here in indy had a hx35 setup on his gsr hatch but he is now switching to a HX52 and switching from gas to E85. That thing is going to be a beast. I figure is the 1.8 can spool it then a 2.4 can. He will probably have to switch the exhaust housing to a smaller cm one off a hx40 or hx35.

[Biggamehit]

I edited and rehosted the graph so it's alot easier to read. I'll be adding this to the FAQ, well done

hey man just doing my community service.. i have a ton more of these.. ill go thru the FAQ section and if i see something that i have thats not covered..........which from off top of my head, everything is covered in the Faq section here lol.... ill pm external links so you can check them out.

also i seen more and more holset questions popping up Forum World wide.

[Ken Park]

This is great info. I have recently been analyzing the compressor maps for different Garrett turbos. Right now I run a GT28R. I have found that it is more effiecient at 9 psi where I have it now than anything higher. I wonder how the HX25 compares to the Garrett T2 turbos.

[BoostFab]

good job consolidating the information about the infamous, you should add more info on higher range hx series, not stop at the hx35.

[boker240]

man, Biggamehit u are one dedicated mofo!! i told a couple poeple u know ur **** .ive got the jgs top mount on the way .still not turboed from the time i was talkin to u bout the oil feed , i got that figured out ,summit.when i get the mani it should b 2 days after and ill b boostin , ill have to mock up the dump and thats it, a little welding and thats it .ill post some pics as soon as i get it done ,. maybe itll help som one out .peace !!!

[Reno]

One of my buddies here in indy had a hx35 setup on his gsr hatch but he is now switching to a HX52 and switching from gas to E85. That thing is going to be a beast. I figure is the 1.8 can spool it then a 2.4 can. He will probably have to switch the exhaust housing to a smaller cm one off a hx40 or hx35.

hmmm i heard there was a hx35 with the same exhaust housing as the hx52

how much power your looking for? cause i wanna go the same route.

prolly 580 rwhp

[Biggamehit]

man, Biggamehit u are one dedicated mofo!! i told a couple poeple u know ur **** .ive got the jgs top mount on the way .still not turboed from the time i was talkin to u bout the oil feed , i got that figured out ,summit.when i get the mani it should b 2 days after and ill b boostin , ill have to mock up the dump and thats it, a little welding and thats it .ill post some pics as soon as i get it done ,. maybe itll help som one out .peace !!!

haha good stuff bro..... make sure you pick up the mounting studs also... they are heat treated and awesome... everytime i need to get the turbo off. they come off very easy



boostfed: yea man i kinda didn't add any because i didn't have much knowledge beyond the hx/hy35. i mean i can link to all that stuff, but i wouldn't feel good about it lol because i have no personal experience with it.. if you have some info bro you free to add it will make this thread even better. Rb30 with HX52.... hmmmmm is that running yet... sounds tasty lol

im off to iraq again... ill be back ( live in Kuwait, works in Iraq.........lame)

[nelson8708]

hmmm i heard there was a hx35 with the same exhaust housing as the hx52

how much power your looking for? cause i wanna go the same route.

prolly 580 rwhp

It varies from the different versions of the hx35. Some of the hx35 turbos have a 9cm or 12cm housing while the h1e i have has a 14cm or 18cm housing ( i cant remember which). A lot of the housings are interchange able. If i want a smaller housing i can get a 12cm housing from a h1c turbo. The holsets are big in the turbo mustang and turbo bmw forums.

[BoostFab]

boostfed: yea man i kinda didn't add any because i didn't have much knowledge beyond the hx/hy35. i mean i can link to all that stuff, but i wouldn't feel good about it lol because i have no personal experience with it.. if you have some info bro you free to add it will make this thread even better. Rb30 with HX52.... hmmmmm is that running yet... sounds tasty lol

im off to iraq again... ill be back ( live in Kuwait, works in Iraq.........lame)

i'll add more information on the larger turbos. about the 30, it's at building stage now. i'll take some pics of the hx52, that is relative to the gt42 in size; it'll eat an infant whole.be safe and good luck oversea man.

[Reno]

rumor has it the hx52 tends to break blades in the compressor housing....

what happens when you put to much nitrous in too soon! it coughs with 50#s of boost and BOOM!

[BoostFab]

hahahaha ouch... it may have been off ballance and grenaded at that shot of instant 50#

[driftjunke]

I used to run a HX35W on my KA-T, loved it, spooled nice, and hit hard, 369 at 12 psi.



E

[Reno]

you have the stock wastegate? how did you manage to get it @ 12lbs?

[FUNGC]

I used to run a HX35W on my KA-T, loved it, spooled nice, and hit hard, 369 at 12 psi.



E

got more pictures and info on this setup? im interested to build a HX35w KAT too.

[480sx]

I used to run a HX35W on my KA-T, loved it, spooled nice, and hit hard, 369 at 12 psi.

Thats a lot of HP for 12 psi, im not really believing that.On most setups you dont cross 300 hp with 12 psi, even with a big turbo. The holset is no magic +70 hp turbo.

What kind of supporting mods do you have to support your claim? I see a stock intake manifold..

[nelson8708]

Thats a lot of HP for 12 psi, im not really believing that.On most setups you dont cross 300 hp with 12 psi, even with a big turbo. The holset is no magic +70 hp turbo.

What kind of supporting mods do you have to support your claim? I see a stock intake manifold..

+1

i could believe 300 but for 370whp i need some proof.

[sunnys14]

cmon guys, well all know he has 50 degrees advanced timing and 180 octane race gas

[Biggamehit]

Nice looking setup FunGC.

i just need to pick up a new Wastegate when i get back and ill put mine on the dyno... im very pressed to see what kinda power im making.. although im not in it for Extream! power lol..

i just know that with my T3 setup, i ran 13.7 @ 104mph at only 6-8psi and this setup feels much stronger by far.

[480sx]

cmon guys, well all know he has 50 degrees advanced timing and 180 octane race gas

He was also probably using that two ear dyno i keep hearing about, high tech stuff right there!

[Reno]

Granulated Sugar......................

omg?

- - - - Cheeze....

? huh? leather



Biggamehit you stock block ??

[PantherRacer]

Now I don't have to go making a new thread or searching for hours, because this is exactly what I came into the KA-T forum for today Thanks a million!