Thoughts on staggered wheels

[dangeris]

Okay, Here's a question to all of the wheel guru's out there. Since our cars our front wheel drive, I've been hearing that a staggered rim setup is not recommended. But why is that? Can anyone out there explain why it shouldn't be done as well as the ramifications. Thanks in advance guys!

[generic808]

There are many opinions on this matter, but let me give you mine. Go ahead and do it if you want to. If you like how it looks, by all means, buy a set. You're going to hear people saying "but it's a FWD and not a RWD". So what, who cares? We all do things to our cars that some may think is "ugly". Personally, I hate cars with bras on them, but there are those who absolutely need them on their cars. Why? Personal preference.

If you look at VW's for example, many of them with FWD's use the staggered set-up. I think it looks a little odd when you see a FWD vehicle with a giant 3" lip on the back and 1" lip up front. But again, that's just me.

Staggered wheels on a FWD vehicle will have no performance benefits whatsoever, unless you're reverse-staggering (wider tire in front) to better your grip at the dragstrip. I know of some who reverse-stagger on FWD cars with the wider tire up front for better traction, but again, that's only helpful on a straight. Reverse-staggering also leans your car toward oversteer. In my opinion, a FWD should stick with matching front and back. It'll also save you money because the wider the tire, the more expensive it is. Not to mention, you can't rotate front to back.

[dangeris]

Thanks generic808, I was hoping that you would see this post and chime in. I understand that it is all about personal preference. My brother owns a VW and he told me that a lot of the VWers out there put staggered wheel setup with no problems or impact. I agree that it does look odd when you see a tuner out there that is front wheel drive with a 3" lip in the back and 1" lip in the front. The wheels that I was looking at are setup in this fashion:18X7.5 FRONT AND 18X8.5 REAR WITH 225/40R18 AND 265/35R18 TIRES. They come with a 5X114.3 BOLT PATTERN WITH 38MM OFFSET FRONT AND 35MM REAR. Do you see a problem putting these wheels on, keeping in mind that I will be installing a Eibach Pro Kit in the near future... Thanks again Generic for your input!

[generic808]

The 18x7.5 will definitely clear. I know 18x8.5's will clear on 245/40/18 with a +45 with a lot of room to spare. I don't know for sure if +35 at 265 will fit, but I would think it would. Why do you want to go 265 on a 8.5? I'd just go with 245/40/18 because they're cheaper

[dangeris]

The 18x7.5 will definitely clear. I know 18x8.5's will clear on 245/40/18 with a +45 with a lot of room to spare. I don't know for sure if +35 at 265 will fit, but I would think it would. Why do you want to go 265 on a 8.5? I'd just go with 245/40/18 because they're cheaper

Because that's what the package entails. But they said that they can make up a package for me if needed. What do you suggest? I would like to get the wheel out to the wheelwell but without any rubbing during full turn. What off set should I be looking for? I understand the basic concept off offset.( centerline of the rim difference to the mounting hub). but what makes the rim stick out further?..+45 or +35?

[Darius]

There are quite a few things here to tackle from a performance standpoint.

First, a staggered setup on a FWD car is a no-no simply because it will further set the car up to understeer. IF you ever decide to do some spirited curvey driving, the car will not handle as well as the stock setup did. Cars come from the factory setup for understeer to keep people who can't drive from panicking during an oversteer situation. There are ways to stiffen up the rear to make it want to come around better (like a stiffer rear sway bar), but it is something that will only return the car to its previous handling characteristics.

Now you could argue that it is only an inch wider in the rear yada yada yada. Yeah it probably won't make any difference in your daily driving but I'm just looking at it from a performance perspective. Personally, I think it is ricey for a FWD car to put wider wheels on the non-drive tires, and just because ricey VW owners do it doesn't mean you should too. VW owners know the least about performance or they would know better than to be driving a VW.

Second, as far as your wheel/tire selection goes, 265 on an 8.5 inch wheel will look like crap. Not trying to be offensive, but it will look like a fat lady trying to fit into a girdle. I have 265 on my 10 inch wheels (240sx) and they are only a tiny bit stretched. I'd knock it back to 245 MAX and would probably go narrower than that. Why don't you just go equally wider all the way around? And go for a slightly lower offset to kick the wheels out a titch so they're flush with the fender.

[dangeris]

There are quite a few things here to tackle from a performance standpoint.

First, a staggered setup on a FWD car is a no-no simply because it will further set the car up to understeer. IF you ever decide to do some spirited curvey driving, the car will not handle as well as the stock setup did. Cars come from the factory setup for understeer to keep people who can't drive from panicking during an oversteer situation. There are ways to stiffen up the rear to make it want to come around better (like a stiffer rear sway bar), but it is something that will only return the car to its previous handling characteristics.

Now you could argue that it is only an inch wider in the rear yada yada yada. Yeah it probably won't make any difference in your daily driving but I'm just looking at it from a performance perspective. Personally, I think it is ricey for a FWD car to put wider wheels on the non-drive tires, and just because ricey VW owners do it doesn't mean you should too. VW owners know the least about performance or they would know better than to be driving a VW.

Second, as far as your wheel/tire selection goes, 265 on an 8.5 inch wheel will look like crap. Not trying to be offensive, but it will look like a fat lady trying to fit into a girdle. I have 265 on my 10 inch wheels (240sx) and they are only a tiny bit stretched. I'd knock it back to 245 MAX and would probably go narrower than that. Why don't you just go equally wider all the way around? And go for a slightly lower offset to kick the wheels out a titch so they're flush with the fender.

Thanks for your input Darius. I was just toying with the idea of staggered rims. Believe me, I haven't made a decision yet but it looks like I'm just going to go with the same rime tire setup all around. If I decide to go with a 18x8 rim with 245/40/18 tires, will a +35 offset take it out to the fender edge or would a +45 do it. Looking at your last sentence, I would say +35 offset would take it out to the fender. I'm just making sure I'm understanding what your saying. Thanks

[Darius]

I think what will really help here is

1) Knowing the exact offset and width of the stock wheel.2) Knowing how much room you have between your stock wheel/tire and the strut.3) Knowing how far out you want the wheel/tire to sit.

I say wheel/tire because if you get higher aspect ratio tires, they will typically bulge out wider than the wheel. If your tire is a lower profile, there isn't so much bulging and the wheel will be the element of concern.

You really have to get under there with a tape measure, preferrably with the car on the ground, to see approximately how far in each direction you can go. Leave about 10mm between the tire and shock tower.

THEN, after you do these two things and take your measurements twice to verify, go to an online wheel offset calculator and play around with different offsets to see how wide of a wheel will fit and how low of an offset you can go. Lower offset for the same width wheel translates into a deeper lip.

If you do your due diligence, your setup will fit great. I measured several times and knew that I could fit 10.5" in the back, but couldn't afford it this year. (Turbo upgrades, etc.) I settled for 10s but here's a teaser. I have other pics, just not on this computer or online yet.



As far as tires go, I still think 245s are way too wide for an 8 inch wheel. Wider tires do not necessarily translate into better traction or even a wider looking setup. It is all in the wheel width.

[generic808]

On a 8.5" 245 is perfect in my opinion. I'm on 8" and running 225/45 and it looks great! If you're going with 8" up front and 8.5" in the rear, I'd go 225/45/18 and 245/40/18 respectively.

At +35 on the 8" with 225's, you'll clear with no probs whatsoever; however, I'm not too sure about the 8.5" at +35. I know it easily clears easily at +45 with 245/40.

Like Darius said, it would be best to actually measure. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it'll clear with no rubbing and will sit exactly flush with the fender. But, your best bet would be to measure. Let us know how things turn out and I hope you got the answer you were looking for

[Darius]

Here's a thread with a pic of a 240 on 9s with 255s. IMO this is as wide of tire as you would really want to go on that wheel. If you go 1 inch narrower on the wheel (8) and 10mm narrower on the tire, you have 15mm of additional tire width that is not "under" the wheel.

Either way, just make sure you get the wheels right. You can always change tire sizes the next time you need a set.

[generic808]

Come to think of it, I believe the 07-08 G35 sedan with factory 18's are running the same set-up I suggested.

Rear: 18x8.5" 245/40/18Front: 18x8" 225/45/18

Any G35 owners care to chime in and reconfirm this?

[rjdmmfl1]

Perhaps generic, but the G35 is RWD with a lower offset, thus you could probably put 9" on there with 245's and still clear...not a good comarison

It seems like you're asking alot of theoretical questions... we can give you all the rim width/offset theory in the world, but once you start getting into these wierd numbers, the only way you'll know for sure is by trying a few sets on your car yourself.

Oh yeah,. and +35 will make you car stick out further. WHat I would suggest is getting a measurement (like Darius said) and find out how much room you have to play with. Once of the first folks on the forum to put large wheels on it was LBC, I believe, and I recall that he has 20 x 8.5 rims, at +35 offset with 245's and I believe his wheels are about a flush as you can get without rubbing... of course as you go up in offset (+35 > +45) you will have even more room
Modified by rjdmmfl1 at 2:26 PM 11/14/2007

[generic808]

Oh, I'm not comparing the two vehicle's drivetrains, I used the G35 as an example of how to stagger a 8" and 8.5".

dangeris originally asked about a 225/45/18 and 265/35/18 stagger and I just suggested a 225/40 over the 265/35 because that is a bit wide.

Ultimately, he is asking if a 265/35 will fit, and I suggested a 245/40 because he will have a better chance of not rubbing. That is all.

[rjdmmfl1]

I feel you Eric, I personally think there is no way in hell 265 tires are gonna fit into that wheel well, even with a +45 offset. 265 if just too wide for this car. 265's on a lower offset vehicle woould give the rear a very aggresive and wide stance from the back, on this vehicle, it's just gonna look like those bow leg tires use to look...remember those from the 80's???

Also, generic, if I recall correctly from an earlier forum, you're running 225's, but you also added (7-10mm) spacers to your car, effectively lowering your apparent wheel offset. Thus your look is a bit different from the other 225's out there.

[generic808]

Yeah, I have 8mm and they did help with the look. But even at 8" +45, the wheels looked okay. I may jump up to 10mm or maybe even 12mm. Don't know how safe it would be, but at least it will look good

rjdmmfl1, what do you think about 12mm on my car? I haven't dropped yet, so I'm sure I'll clear without any issues. Just wondering if I'd have to get longer studs. And I'm also wondering about the added stress placed on the lugs. Do you think it'll be safe to go that far out? Some say 5mm max, but I see guys going 1"-1.5" out without any issues

[Darius]

If you're gonna go more than 10mm, I would be surprised that your lug nuts have anything to grab onto. Anything bigger than that and you'll want to get a good set of bolt-on spacers due to the difficulty of trying to get a large spacer like that to balance on the hub. If you want that much of an offset, just buy wider wheels with an according offset.

Just for conversation, here is how my 235/40's looks on a 9-inch wheel.

[generic808]

Yeah, I thought about going deeper offset, but I love my wheels!

Wow, the 235's on 9" looks better than I thought it would. I expected to see more strecting than that. Watch out for them curbs

[Darius]

hahaha you should see the rears. On my next set, I think I might get 275s on the rears.

[generic808]

275's on an S14!! I'm assuming your fenders are rolled?

*sigh* Oh how I miss my S13 And my SE-R

[rjdmmfl1]

yeah, w/ 12mm, i think you'll need longer studs. you can do more with your setup due to the +45 offset on your wheels...

I was going to ask why you didn't go with a lower offset wheel to begin with, but you were probably specific about the exact wheel you wanted, and my guess is it only came in +45. (can't beat the light weight forged alloys

I don't know what the long term ramifications are of adding the thicker spacers... immediately, maybe nothing, 2-3 years from now, my guess is something will be slightly out of wack... your wheels look great now, why change them????

[generic808]

Yup, they're only made in +45. I wish it was a +38 or +35

I just wanted to get my wheels flush-flush with the lip. I'm a little sunken in still, but a few more mm would do me good. I'll probably just stick to how it is for now. I'm thinking about picking up the G35 Ray's wheels. A dude is selling them with almost new tires for $1200. I think that's an awesome deal, but I don't have any more space in my garage for another set of wheels

[dangeris]

Thanks for all of the replies guys! You guys have been a real help and I have a better understanding of how offsets work and how they affect the geometry of the car. So, with that said, I'm going to play it safe and stick with a wheel that I know would fit. The wheel's dimensions are as follows: 18x7.5 with a +38 offset. According to the online wheel offset calculator, with that rim width and off set I just mentioned, compare to the stock rim width and offset (7.5 & +45), The clearance from strut housing to the inside of the wheel will be 7mm MORE The outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 7mm. As for tires, I would like to stick with a tire that is very close to the circumference of the original tire. Stock tire is 215/55/17. A 235/45/18 will get me REALLY close to that and my speedo will only be off .1 % meaning 60mph on the speedo will be 60mph on the speedo. What do you guys think?
Modified by dangeris at 4:03 AM 11/16/2007

[generic808]

You're correct with the tire sizing. My OEM wheels/tires are 215/55/17 and the closest tire would be a 235/45/18. Unfortunately, that's a very odd size and the tire selection is very limited and pricey. That's how I ended up on 225/45/18. It's .3 inches off from stock specs; good enough for me.

On your 18x7.5 I'd go with a 225/45/18 which would only be .3 inches shorter than stock, and you'd have tons of tires to choose from.

BTW any particular reason you decided on 18x7.5"? If you're going to get bigger wheels, you might as well go wider.

[dangeris]

Yeah I know but in the wheels I want to get, the wider the wheel, the smaller the lip. It's kinda odd since one would think the wider the wheel the wider the lip. Here's the link to the wheels I was looking at.

http://www.sportmaxwheel.com/sportmax_962.shtml

I'm leaning towards the Gunmetal but I know if you get the buy Nismo wheels you can get them in either bronze/gold or Gunmetal...Both would look really good against Code Red
Modified by dangeris at 2:02 PM 11/16/2007

[nsrZ32]

I will attempt to be a voice of reason in this thread, even though you will undoubtedly do what YOU want in the end.

Staggered wheels on a FWD car is plain silly. There is no performance benefit and it is merely for asthetic purposes. You know what mods are that don't serve a purpose? RICE Hate to burst your bubble but spend your money on something useful to make your car faster or perform better.

[generic808]

My thoughts exactly. I think it's odd, but like I said earlier, people have their own preferences.

Darius, there's no way you can get the wheels in a set of four in the same size? If you got four of the 18x8.5, that would be tight. I think that's the perfect set-up to run on the Altima. Just slap some 245/40/18 or 245/45/18 and you're good to go.

[dangeris]

Darius, there's no way you can get the wheels in a set of four in the same size? If you got four of the 18x8.5, that would be tight. I think that's the perfect set-up to run on the Altima. Just slap some 245/40/18 or 245/45/18 and you're good to go.

Hey generic, when you say tight, ...are you referring that it would look really good or are you referring to as "physically tight" I was thinking of what you were saying about going wider in your earlier post. After looking at the wheel on the online offset calculator, if I went 18x8.5 +35 offset instead, the distance from the strut housing and the inside of the wheel would actually be 3mm less but the outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 23mm from stock. I believe that extra 23mm will bring the rim out to the edge of the fender. What are your thoughts? I agree with the tires though, I think I'm going to go with 245/45 or 225/45s...

I will attempt to be a voice of reason in this thread, even though you will undoubtedly do what YOU want in the end.

Staggered wheels on a FWD car is plain silly. There is no performance benefit and it is merely for asthetic purposes. You know what mods are that don't serve a purpose? RICE Hate to burst your bubble but spend your money on something useful to make your car faster or perform better.

I hate to burst your bubble nsrZ32 but I know there is no performance benefits of staggered wheels on a FWD car. I wasn't asking if it'll make it go fast..duh!!! All I was asking is what are the pros and cons...meaning will it damage components in the long run or not, stress parts, etc.. I've had my share of fast cars in my life...and and at my age, I don't need to go fast but spending money on real components that makes a difference is different but on the same note spending lots of money on minimal gains is just stupid! ie..NISMO cat-back exhaust...

[Darius]

LOL I tought we already covered the staggered on FWD topic a week ago.

generic, I'm not sure what your last post meant. What were you talking about again?

dangeris, 18x8.5 +35 would stick out an inch further and would probably match the fender well. I think we have a winner!
Modified by Darius at 9:05 AM 11/19/2007

[dangeris]

LoL...Yes we did cover this Darius. Just measuring twice and cutting once!...as the old adage goes.

[generic808]

Hey generic, when you say tight, ...are you referring that it would look really good or are you referring to as "physically tight" I was thinking of what you were saying about going wider in your earlier post. After looking at the wheel on the online offset calculator, if I went 18x8.5 +35 offset instead, the distance from the strut housing and the inside of the wheel would actually be 3mm less but the outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 23mm from stock. I believe that extra 23mm will bring the rim out to the edge of the fender. What are your thoughts? I agree with the tires though, I think I'm going to go with 245/45 or 225/45s...

By "tight", I meant it'll look hot! I really think 18x8.5 +38 would be THE perfect set-up for the Altima. I'm 8" wide, but wish I had that extra half-inch That 23mm would bring you out almost an inch, basically almost flush with the fender.

Just a side note: the Nismo Altima 18's are 18x8.5 +45 I believe. I know there is room outward with those on the Altima. I'm sure +38 or +35 would sit flush with the fender. I would personally go +38 on an 8.5" just to be safe and just in case the car gets slammed