62-1

[turbo2nr]

getting a good deal on a 62-1 turbonetics turbo

specs 62-1 : 2.441 3.000 ind\exd p trim wheel on the back .69 a/r turbine housing t series comp housing ball bearing big shaft option.. 700 used..

anyone use this turbo or will it be too big.. came off a turbo maxima 3.0l motor.. car did low 13 on 15psi making 360whp..

any help will be appericatedthanks

[eazye2000]

That's a straight T4 isn't it? I have no idea. I know the 60-1 is a t4.

I'm going for the T3/60-1 myself. I was hoping that wasn't too big.

In my head I'm picturing a 62-1 as a child eating monster.. ..

[turbo2nr]

yup straight t4 i look at the comprosser map that turbo wakes up around 16psi and is in the efficency range when making 450whp.. has the potential to make 600hp..

but im not sure if its too big or not?

[C-Kwik]

It's likely too big. From my quick estimation, the KA will see the peak efficiency island near redline. Couple that with a rather large turbine trim, and you end up with a peaky turbo. I would only consider such a turbo for a race only vehicle with a higher redline than a stock KA.

Frankly speaking a 360 whp maxima should be doing much better than 13 seconds in a quarter. My speculation is that it had a weak low and midrange with a surge of power at the top. It may have even dropped out of the powerband slightly when shifting. With the KA being down .6L over the 3.0L, it would likely be even worse.

[turbo2nr]

when i mapped it ouy it looks like it would work. for a ka24de making around 350whp the pressure ratio i came up with is 2.30 and the air flow/min is 51.75.

for 450hp i caculated 2.96/51.75.. so it seems like the 62-1 would work fine but im not sure..

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/....html

used caculations form there..
Modified by turbo2nr at 12:25 PM 7/13/2007

[turbo2nr]

bummpity bump bump... anyone

[WDRacing]

Slightly bigger compressor then my T4, but I have a .81 AR hotside...I saw boost at full boost at 5K. You'll get full boost slightly quicker. I made 7 psi or so by 3700 but nothing good until 5K.

[eazye2000]

I'll trade you my GT28RS with an .86 hotside on it.

I get 12psi by 2600.

....falls off after 6k though.. lol

[turbo2nr]

wd if you dont mind me asking what turbo did you have and what specs? are you still running that tubro? or was it to laggy for you?

based on the compressor map it seems like tis would good for the ka..

[C-Kwik]

when i mapped it ouy it looks like it would work. for a ka24de making around 350whp the pressure ratio i came up with is 2.30 and the air flow/min is 51.75.

for 450hp i caculated 2.96/51.75.. so it seems like the 62-1 would work fine but im not sure.Modified by turbo2nr at 12:25 PM 7/13/2007

Something is seriously wrong with your calculation. You have 51.75 lbs/min for your airflow at both projected HP results. Airflow through a motor is proportional to the pressure in the manifold. Higher HP levels and boost should both result in higher airflow numbers. Perhaps you posted the wrong numbers.

Regardless, it's not a matter of if it will work. It's how well it works that matters. Other than sizing so big that you get surge or no boost at all, any turbo will work to some extent. Getting a good turbo match is about optimizing the turbo's efficiency to the engine and the area you want the most power. Unless you have the ability to change your gear ratios around in your transmission, this generally means that you should have good efficiency across at least the range from the lowest RPM you see when shifting to redline. It is desirable to have good efficiency lower than that for most street cars as well. If you have a turbo with good efficiency at high revs you may feel like you're bogging each time you shift.

[turbo2nr]

yea my caculations were wrong..

it turnes out to be around 31.xx for 16psi and like 24.xx for 12psi or some thing like that i dont have the paper next to me..

i understand its about being efficent.. i know it will spool. its a matter how how long will it take...

it doesnt seem to be near the surge limit. so i should be ok on that limit and on 15psi @5500rpms im at the middle pleatue im about 75% efficency and the turbo is spinning around 90k... which doesnt seem bad..

down low it not that good.. but it seems like it work ok..

so overall will this turbo be a efficent choice or just overkill?

[S13FX]

wd if you dont mind me asking what turbo did you have and what specs? are you still running that tubro? or was it to laggy for you?

based on the compressor map it seems like tis would good for the ka..

HAHA To Laggy for WDRacing, I don't think I have ever seen a turbo too laggy for that crazy *** bastard.

[C-Kwik]

yea my caculations were wrong..

it turnes out to be around 31.xx for 16psi and like 24.xx for 12psi or some thing like that i dont have the paper next to me..

i understand its about being efficent.. i know it will spool. its a matter how how long will it take...

it doesnt seem to be near the surge limit. so i should be ok on that limit and on 15psi @5500rpms im at the middle pleatue im about 75% efficency and the turbo is spinning around 90k... which doesnt seem bad..

down low it not that good.. but it seems like it work ok..

so overall will this turbo be a efficent choice or just overkill?

I'm not sure how you're reading this compressor map, but 15 psi is essentially a 2.0 pressure ratio. If you draw a line across the map at 2.0 and then a line up from 31 lbs/min, then you'll probably be around 70% efficiency at best. I'm assuming the 31 lbs/min is the calculation at redline so that would mean any turbo operation between the boost threshold and redline will be below about 70%. Not ideal by any means. I wouldn't touch this turbo by any means without a significant bump in redline and better Engine VE at the higher RPM's...

Bear in mind that spool-up is also affected by efficiency to a small degree as well. Any resistance to spool requires more turbine power to overcome it. The better the efficiency at any given time, the better.

$700 could be better spent on a new turbo that is better matched to this application.

[turbo2nr]

thanks c-kwik. i think im going to go home and try plotting the points and mapping it out..

i plan later on to do 264 cams.. and bump redline to 7200... but thats not for now...

so if 15psi is only ~70% efficency, im assuming 9-10psi will be around 65% efficency?

also when going with lower efficency the turbo is pulling in more hot air or some thing to this effect?

lastly what are the down sides of running 9psi with this turbo beside lag time, will i be to close to the surge limit? and will the ball bearing help at all with spool up or not really noticable?

thanks for all the help

[WDRacing]

I had/have a TO4E with a 50 somthing trim compressor wheel, a stg 3 exhaust wheel and a .81 AR exhaust housing. I made 498 whp on my Skyline, rb20. But it lagged real bad, like 5200. But the RB20 was revved to 8500.

The KA tossed a rod so I only had the TO4 on it for like a month, but it was also very laggy.

My T3/TO4E in 50 trim was awsome...but it blew a turbine seal because of a oil line restriction. The only reason I even installed the T4 was because it was in the garage already...lol.

WD

[C-Kwik]

I'd speculate that going to 7200 RPM is going to be nowhere near enough to really make use a 62-1. Without doing the actual math, I'd guess no less than 8,000 RPM before I'd even consider this turbo.

A compressor's efficiency is directly related to the internal aerodynamics that occur. The more aerodynamic it is at a given pressure ratio and flowrate, the less the air is heated AND less shaft torque will be needed. The latter is important as it means the turbine can operate under less pressure differential which translates to less backpresssure on the motor. This allows you to get more power out of the set-up.

operating under surge will depend on the turbine itself. It's hard to accurately gauge this without having data from people running the same turbo on the same motor or doing some complex calculations, but to be safe, just find a similarly sized turbine against a compressor that is as close as you can find running on this motor to get a general idea. then perhaps calculate a bit on the safe side. Brian's set-up seems to be relatively close, but I'd try to find more examples to get a much better idea...

However, before you invest too much time and effort into the turbine sizing, I'd make sure the compressor mapping will be at an acceptable range for your plans otherwise it may be a wasted effort.

My own personal thought is that you seem to be trying to force this turbo onto your car. Starting with the right turbo is the best thing you can do. If it is an option, build your system around a well matched turbo. It will make everything else that much easier and the results will be much more rewarding.

[turbo2nr]

so bottom line 62-1 will not be efficent unless i have a motor that has a higher redline or more airflow? correct?

and form what i gather im assuming boost wont start untill 3500 and fully kick untill 4500...

damm that sucks i really wanted this turbo too..

[C-Kwik]

Pretty much. Don't feel at a loss though. There is a lot better matched turbo for your desired results than this turbo and it will likely cost about the same for a new one...

[C-Kwik]

Just to add on here, the Turbonetics turbo kit for the 350Z uses a 60-1, which has a compressor that maps out somewhat similarly. The 350Z makes nearly double the HP in NA form which would imply nearly double the airflow. From what I remember from a Turbonetics event, they showed the VQ mapped out on the 60-1 and it landed almost entirely in the peak efficiency island. This should give you a pretty good idea of how far off the KA would likely be...

[turbo2nr]

question about reading comp. maps. how do i determine spool up form plotting out the points?

on:12psi@6500 its at 75%eff. @83k.. 12psi@5500 its at 73%eff. @61k12psi@4500 its at 70%eff. @55k..ect..

at what eff. am i looking for higher the better. also on low boost 5~7psi the turbo is around 68%eff @50k...

the turbo makes good power around 18psi..

so how can i determine spool up form the map?

[WDRacing]

Its almost impossible to tell where it will spool bro...just figure on not having full boost till 5000rpm or so.

The thing is a friggin awful turbo for the KA.

WD