Cattman RSB

[Beancooker]

Hands down the most badassed suspension mod I have done! Makes an incredible difference. Turns on a dime. I've driven a Porsche Boxter, and it is a very similar ride. I also have Eibach springs, Tokico Illumina struts (set on 5), a FSTB, and now the RSB. Absolutely unbelievable.

[LA02MAX]

Hands down the most badassed suspension mod I have done! Makes an incredible difference. Turns on a dime. I've driven a Porsche Boxter, and it is a very similar ride. I also have Eibach springs, Tokico Illumina struts (set on 5), a FSTB, and now the RSB. Absolutely unbelievable.

eh, I wouldn't go that far...our weight distribution, weak frame, and long wheelbase will never allow our cars to feel quite like a porche or BMW for that matter. The RSB does make quite an improvement but I've noticed that I get a LOT of snap oversteer when I take my LTBII off which is kinda dangerous. With my wheel spacers, FSTB, LTB, RSB, and the illuminas set to 4f/5r the car is very neutral but remove one of those pieces and things change dramatically.

[Beancooker]

Ok, maybe I overstated it, out of excitement, but it is really great.

BTW, if you have ever driven a Boxster, they are not as agile as one would think. Kinda dissapointing, really. That is why I compared it to a Boxster, and not a 911.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Boxsters aren't all that great, anyway. Gutless and ugly. Unless it's an S. Then it's just ugly.

[jltibbs]

do you have the rear anti sway bar (RASB) as well? that was my first addition besides struts and springs to the rear. with that and the RSB, it's amazing. if you don't have the RASB, it will also help even more. i have the illumina susp kit from custom enterprise (CE) with CE spings, CE FSB, CE RSB, and progress RASB. it kind of reminds me of riding in a go cart. it's fun.

[Beancooker]

Yes, the RSB is the rear anti sway bar. Love the stiffness!

RSB... rear sway bar

FSTB... front strut tower brace (or bar, depends on what you like to call it)

RSTB... rear strut tower brace (or bar)

FSB... front sway bar... don't hear much about these, because they are a stock item

SFC... subframe connectors...custom made only... I think?

LTB lower tie bar... available thru BlehmCo http://www.blehmco.com/index.htm

[LA02MAX]

Ok, maybe I overstated it, out of excitement, but it is really great.

BTW, if you have ever driven a Boxster, they are not as agile as one would think. Kinda dissapointing, really. That is why I compared it to a Boxster, and not a 911.

but track stability/driving feel is still something a maxima couldn't touch because of the reasons listed above, sadly...You can make it much better with things like SFC's, using structural foam throughout the frame, lowering the engine, better suspension components, etc. but really the max is no autocrosser...Long wheelbase, FWD, and bad weight distribution isn't exactly the best recipe for good handling. If you've ever driven something like a mazda miata or a BMW 3-series you could definitely tell the difference in overall feel and control in any situation. I love the maxima and yes you can make any car fun to take a turn with, but it's still pretty far down on the totem pole in the handling department

[Beancooker]

Fine then...keep poking holes in my balloons. I'll just take my ball and go home...

You're right LA, but I'll keep trying to make this car what I want, since it's paid in full. A good friend owns, and I've driven his 3 series full Dinan makeover... freakin incredible, also a $65k car. Money will buy you a lot.

BTW, try telling "Irish44J" and "soonerfan" that the Maxima is not an autocrosser. They may change your mind to that one. AC has a lot to do with skill behind the wheel, (as well as the car) Where a lesser driver in a better car is more likely to lose, than a better driver in a lesser car.

[jltibbs]

i hate acronyms

[LA02MAX]

Fine then...keep poking holes in my balloons. I'll just take my ball and go home...

You're right LA, but I'll keep trying to make this car what I want, since it's paid in full. A good friend owns, and I've driven his 3 series full Dinan makeover... freakin incredible, also a $65k car. Money will buy you a lot.

BTW, try telling "Irish44J" and "soonerfan" that the Maxima is not an autocrosser. They may change your mind to that one. AC has a lot to do with skill behind the wheel, (as well as the car) Where a lesser driver in a better car is more likely to lose, than a better driver in a lesser car.

Sorry to burst your bubbles...er balloons...

I know Josh (irish) posts some pretty good times because he's a very experienced driver, but let him get his Triumph running and when he gets some time behind the wheel of that thing, he'll be much better than he was in his maxima...jason (soonerfan) has some catching up to do but he still doesn't do too bad for driving a FWD 3200 lb. boat with a rear beam suspension

[MinisterofDOOM]

This thread makes me want to hug my 3rd gen.

[Beancooker]

This thread makes me want to hug my 3rd gen.

You also have OBD1 diagnostics... So you can remap your fuel/air maps with CONSULT II... hug her for me too, you lucky %$#&@*!!!!

**EDIT** I was wrong, no you can't.

[LA02MAX]

This thread makes me want to hug my 3rd gen.

Funny you mention that, because actually nissan did a test where they rigged the same rear beam from a 4th gen onto a 3rd gen and on the track, the 3rd gen did better with the beam suspension than the independent rear. This is because as you take turns, the camber doesn't adjust with a beam like it does with independent suspension which keeps the entire contact patch of the tire on the ground.

However, in real world conditions (bumps, expansion joints, etc.) IRS is much much better overall and the car will be much more controlled. Just thought I'd throw that out there! And I really want a 3rd gen, too! I'm thinking of picking a VE5 up this year some time.

[jltibbs]

You also have OBD1 diagnostics... So you can remap your fuel/air maps with CONSULT II... hug her for me too, you lucky %$#&@*!!!!

so, i can remap my air/fuel maps as well? i need to find someone who has a consult and knows what to do!

[LA02MAX]

so, i can remap my air/fuel maps as well? i need to find someone who has a consult and knows what to do!

Yeah I think he meant without the consult II...you have OBDII like us though, not OBDI

[jltibbs]

Yeah I think he meant without the consult II...you have OBDII like us though, not OBDI

i actually have both OBD I and II. OBD I is under driver side and OBD II is above ECU under center dash accessed from passenger side. my max was manufactured in mid 94.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Funny you mention that, because actually nissan did a test where they rigged the same rear beam from a 4th gen onto a 3rd gen and on the track, the 3rd gen did better with the beam suspension than the independent rear. This is because as you take turns, the camber doesn't adjust with a beam like it does with independent suspension which keeps the entire contact patch of the tire on the ground.

However, in real world conditions (bumps, expansion joints, etc.) IRS is much much better overall and the car will be much more controlled. Just thought I'd throw that out there! And I really want a 3rd gen, too! I'm thinking of picking a VE5 up this year some time.

Interesting...I didn't know about that. That's pretty cool.

[Beancooker]

i actually have both OBD I and II. OBD I is under driver side and OBD II is above ECU under center dash accessed from passenger side. my max was manufactured in mid 94.

Well, I was completely wrong!!! YOU CAN NOT REMAP YOUR FUEL/AIR MAPS WITH CONSULT. Heres what you do. You either put the ECU's BIN file on the computer and edit, or an emulator hooked up to the ECU and edit in real time. Usually you get it close by tuning it on the computer and then put it in the emulator on the dyno to tweek.

Correct info courtesy of "elwesso"

[jltibbs]

that sucks, thought i was about to get some easy management.

[sleepr0]

Howdy all. New here and thought I'd chime in on the Maxima/I-30 sway bar issue.

As most of you know, this rear suspension is a "twist beam" design where individual vertical wheel deflection is determined by how much the U-channel around the "axle" and between the wheels twists. I behaves like a single torsion bar.

Ideally, a sway bar should have it's main body fastened to the car body and the ends controlling vertical wheel deflection. Unfortunately, since this is not a true independent suspension, this would limit total rear suspension too much. Besides, there is nowhere beefy enough to mount the body of the sway bar in the same manner as the front suspension. Both Progressive/Cattman and Stillen have worked around this limitation by attaching the entire bar to the twist beam to help it resist twisting. It's a decent workaround, but it has two huge disadvantages:

1. It effectively makes the stock "semi-independent" rear suspension even less independent than the sub-optimal twist beam allows for. It becomes more like a standard "live axle" setup as a result. Fine, if you like the way a Mustang handles and always drive on billiard-table roads. Add bumps and you get side-hop. This is bad.

2. The 20+ pound mass of the sway bar is all below spring level and entirely mounted to the trailing links and twist beam. This adds 10+ pounds of unsprung weight *per wheel* to an already compromised setup and slows suspension response considerably. The wheels simply cannot change vertical direction fast enough while carrying this mass. Extra unsprung weight is a killer. When it's twenty *pounds*, it's a disaster.

These two strikes are cumulative. IMO, an RSB in the Max/I-30 is a very bad idea under these circumstances. If someone thinks otherwise, I'm open to discussion.

Since the Stillen part is less heavy than the Progressive design, it's a better bet if you insist on using an RSB. Frankly, I would recommend a good adjustable-damping shock like the Tokico Illuminas and leave it at that. The twist-beam suspension is just not swaybar-friendly.

[brianw]

(holy old threads batman...)

Having driven dozens of Maximas with varying states of modification in the last ten years or so, the simple answer is, the rear beam suspension sucks.

It CAN be made to handle well, but you're correct, over rough roads it's never going to be smooth.

Eibach did their first-revision Pro-kit springs on the Maxima before anyone had done a rear sway bar. Unfortunately they found out that even with very stiff rear spring rates, it's difficult to dial out the understeer in a Maxima no matter how stiff you go- then you get too stiff and induce all sorts of other comfort and handling issues.

Koni sports on the Maxima are another attempt-- only they're stiff enough to be rock-hand on a Maxima, and again are not an ideal solution.

That was ten years ago... now, well, even with coilovers from Progress, Ksport/D2, JIC, and others, my opinion is that you are still much better off running with a rear sway bar in addition to your coilovers. You can dial out SOME of the understeer with extremely stiff rear springs and shocks, but you can't dial out enough of it without a rear sway bar to make me happy.

I have extensive experience with Progress and JIC FLT-A2's at varying spring rates, and I would still strongly recommend a rear sway bar if you intend to drive your car hard. Being an occasional track junkie, a sway bar is worth every penny.

Also IMHO, as far as ride comfort goes, between just springs/shocks or a rear sway bar, the rear sway bar is by far the lesser of two evils. Having done more than a few track events, a 4th gen Maxima on an otherwise stock suspension with a rear sway bar added is a much better balanced vehicle than one with springs/shocks as the only suspension modifications.

Stock, you're going to get axle tramp and axle hop over rough roads. I've accepted that fact. :p

[Klepton]

After reading the last two posts, I have the following questions:

1) If I don't plan on racing my car (neither track nor street), is it worth purchasing a RSB?

2) What about any other part of the suspension? FSTB, struts/shocks, lower springs, etc?

Any insight will be greatly appreciated!

[brianw]

Depends what you want out of the car.

If you're just interested in looks, lower it.

If you're just interested in looks but value your back and some semibalance of handling, don't lower it more than 1" or so and make sure to switch out your struts/shocks to Tokico Illuminias or KYB AGXs so your shock damping rates match your springs.

If you're just farting around on the street, do whatever the hell you want. The handling limits of a stock Maxima are high enough that exploring them on the street is pretty dangerous to bystanders, you don't need to do anything else to go fast enough to attract the attention of every police officer in a 5 mile radius.

If you don't want to lower it, but still want to improve the handling, buy sticky tires. Then think about subframe connectors and a rear sway bar from Cattman/Progress or Stillen. Energy Suspension makes a fairly comprehensive set of bushings for the front, too.

[A.Tech]

yah Porsche Boxters are like the cheapest Porsche you can buy so they are not as great as other Porsches are...

[Klepton]

Please excuse my ignorance. A few more questions:

1) Are lowering springs adjustable? How does one go about choosing which springs will lower the car a specific distance (i.e. 1")?

2) Most springs I've seen claim to lower this car 1.2-1.5 inches in Front and/or Rear. Which do you know of will lower it to only 1" ?

3) Which "sticky tires" would you recommend?

4) Which springs/struts would you recommend for an overall improvement in handling, but keeping in mind that my car will be a daily driver and not a "race" car? I've seen so many being advertised as being adjustable but I feel that I wouldn't need those "advanced" features. It's not that I'm looking for value, but rather for something that will suit only my needs and not more.

Yes, I am mostly interested in my car's "looks". However, of course I don't mind an improvement in performance (both HP and handling)...

[Beancooker]

Please excuse my ignorance. A few more questions:

1) Are lowering springs adjustable? How does one go about choosing which springs will lower the car a specific distance (i.e. 1")?

2) Most springs I've seen claim to lower this car 1.2-1.5 inches in Front and/or Rear. Which do you know of will lower it to only 1" ?

3) Which "sticky tires" would you recommend?

4) Which springs/struts would you recommend for an overall improvement in handling, but keeping in mind that my car will be a daily driver and not a "race" car? I've seen so many being advertised as being adjustable but I feel that I wouldn't need those "advanced" features. It's not that I'm looking for value, but rather for something that will suit only my needs and not more.

Yes, I am mostly interested in my car's "looks". However, of course I don't mind an improvement in performance (both HP and handling)...

Only coilovers have adjustable ride height.

Illumina struts have adjustable dampening (the squishy-ness of the shock absorber).

I used Eibach springs with Tokico Illumina strust. The springs were really stiff. I hear that the Tein springs are not as stiff. Good for daily driver.

I think that all the springs out there are going to lower it at least 1.2-1.5.

I highly recommend the RSB. My ride was extremely stiff with the Eibach springs, but after putting on the RSB, it made the back end a little better over the bumps.

As far as tires, I really liked the Falken FK512's that I was using. I have Yokohama ES100's on the G35 and they are awesome as well.