I've been collecting data on the 2006 M for some time, but still need many more participants for this and other model years. So I am very grateful that the owner of this forum has seen the value of this research and agreed to help out.

To encourage participation, anyone who helps provide the reliability data will have free access to the results.

For the details, and to help us provide the best possible info on your model year:

http://www.truedelta.com/reliability.php

Update: just four short of the minimum for the 2007 -- let's get it included!

Modified by mkaresh at 9:32 AM 5/8/2008

Guys, take a minute and drop some info on Mike's site... He's got a good thing going, and our participation is important.

Add a link to NICOclub to your site!

...even the HITMAN is on MySpace

Stacey Lynn Childs 1970-2007... Love of my life, my best friend, Heaven's prettiest angel. I miss you so much.

CR has been doing what they've been doing for so long that it's easy to think they must know how to do it. But they've never had any serious competition, and organizations that don't have to compete generally don't innovate. They just keep doing things the same way they've always done them, right or wrong.

If CR was doing a good job with their reliability research, I wouldn't be doing this. But they aren't, so I am. You can read two of my critiques of how they collect data and report results here:

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/cr_survey.php

I'm a member of CR. The second editorial is based on my personal experience filling out their survey.

Now their reliability research and the road tests that have praised the M are two different things. I think they do a much better job with the road tests.

Modified by mkaresh at 9:16 PM 12/1/2006

CR did have high praise for the Ms road test and gave the M35X their highest rating ever for a luxury car. This rating also includes reliability. It was also nice that they rated the M35X and not the M45 Sport like everyone else does.

The formula for deriving the road test score has never been published. Someone I know once asked them about it, and they responded that it was "proprietary information." Every other car magazine tells you how they calculate overall scores. But not CR.

Modified by mkaresh at 10:10 AM 12/2/2006

The full reliability score is done once a year from information received from CR members. I think their numbers are done with more input than your reliability research will get.

All magazine car test scores are a mystery. None of the numbers add up.

I did join your Truedelta.

Your are right that they won't recommend a car without a reliability score (though for many Hondas and Toyotas they'll provide a top score without data). But the reliability score and road test score are two different scores. To be recommended, a car must be above average on both and do reasonably well in safety tests.

Their major advantage is the one thing I have no direct control over, sample size. I don't know if I'll ever have a sample as large as theirs, but I think you'll see some pretty strong growth over the next couple of years. If every person who has thought "Your sample is too small" was participating in the research, my sample wouldn't be too small. Thanks for not being one of them.

But it doesn't matter how large your sample is if your methods have major flaws, which theirs do. The famous case was a poll back in the 1930s that incorrectly predicted Roosevelt would lose the presidential election based on a sample in the millions.

In CR's case, look at the article I have here:

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/anomalies.php

With the large Chryslers, their ratings suggest you should get the V8 in the Dodge Magnum but avoid it in the Chrysler 300C. Similarly, this year they recommend getting the 2.0T in the Jetta, but avoiding it in the Passat. Same engines, different models.

Their sample is so large that with proper methods these anomalies should not occur. But they happen about as often as they don't happen.

Modified by mkaresh at 5:56 PM 12/2/2006

Also the average amount [$2,000-$4,000] necessary immediately to fix a used car being sold back to near new performance...........before the $2,000-$4,000 per year starts.

Tires, tire maintenance, Brakes/rotors, rubber component replacement, when the AC fails, etc.

After all one can purchase an inexpensive Nissan Warranty until 100k.

The recent advent of $250 tires that only last 12-18 months, ultra performance fast wearing brakes, almost race car outputs from engines, stress on transmissions..................all change the expectation of reliability.

However, I exclude wear items like tires and brakes, because of the number of variables involved, many of them related to how and where the car is driven. I might later ask about these, but in a separate survey.

My survey, in contrast, strictly defines what counts as a problem. While there will be some variation, as some people are more likely than others to get minor problems fixed, the raw data I'm seeing suggests this isn't much of an issue. The great majority of problems reported are severe enough that nearly any driver would have them fixed.

My survey, in contrast, strictly defines what counts as a problem. While there will be some variation, as some people are more likely than others to get minor problems fixed, the raw data I'm seeing suggests this isn't much of an issue. The great majority of problems reported are severe enough that nearly any driver would have them fixed.

Add a link to NICOclub to your site!

...even the HITMAN is on MySpace

Stacey Lynn Childs 1970-2007... Love of my life, my best friend, Heaven's prettiest angel. I miss you so much.

Z

Have been collecting data on the 2006 for some time, but still need more responses to post results. 25 currently signed up.

I'll be checking the issue descriptions to see what's going on.

A few more have signed up recently, for a total of 31. Results are based on responses from 17 cars.

If you're one of the 2006 owners who has signed up but has not responded, I need that response. I only publicly display results when at least 18 cars have responded--so currently one short.

How many 03-04 M45 guys do you have? Enough to do info search on?

Something cool would be a list of side notes ect for cross comparing features/ pic/ performance/ price....things that an car guy would love!

You might be doing that already, but I thought this would be helpful when compiling data to pick a new-used car.
Thanks for your help!
Kyle

Exactly right! One of the reasons many people seek us out and ask questions - on any forum, not just on NICO - is when they have a problem. So, there is a tendency for the number of "problem" posts to outweigh the others!

Of course, one of the things we try to do here at NICO is provide information on problems as well as other topics - modifications, fun times driving the car, speeding stories (I have to admit to that ), etc.

For many people, NICO has become a place to hang out on the Internet too. It is the only forum I visit regularly - mostly because I enjoy talking to people about the cars we drive. And, yes, even though I also own an Acura, my post count on that forum is tiny fractions of what it is here.

Because of the people!

So, anyway, to make a long story even longer, I would still recommend the M in a heartbeat. Yes, there have been some problems, but, all in all, the good more than outweighs the bad! What you get in the M (either the M45 or the M35) is a lot of performance and luxury ... for quite a bit less than comparable cars from other manufacturers.

There is a reason it is Consumer Reports highest ranked car! Replacing other, more "reliable", cars.

And, yes, there have been some teething problems with the model, but nothing that I would consider being something that would make me not get it again in a heartbeat. Sure, this is not true for everyone who has purchased an M35 or M45, but the same could be said for any other car and mftr in the market!

Z

Currently have 31 2006 Ms in the panel. More is always better. And where are the 2007s?

Mod: can we change the title to "Infiniti M35/M45 reliability - how does it compare?"

Thanks.

Done!

Z

Not much these days. They're one of the few forums that have not been supportive of my research. One of the mods even deleted my sig (which the other mods had been okay with). So I rarely go there any more.

I've been active in an Acura RL thread recently, but only because someone started a thread about one of the posts in my site's blog.

btw, im on acurazine as well. i also think the mods are dictators with biased views. hope its not the same here. you cant blame them though. they are just normal people as well.

There is always a fine line between too little and too much moderating.

I try to err on the lenient side, but will enforce what is in the FAQ (see button above) when it becomes necessary. Our "General Chat" forum is a bit more on the wild and woolly side ...

Z

On the M, the most recent results were recently posted and detailed here in a separate thread. Still short of the minimum needed for an official result, so there was again an asterisk. With more participants, there won't be one next time, in November.

For the details, and to sign up:

Vehicle reliability research

If you haven't responded yet, please do so.

At some point after enough maintenance has been deferred, the owner looks at the standard indices of market value for the year and model of his car with mileage and condition, which generally are not an actual reflection of value for any one particular car but a general guide. At that point, the owner decides not to maintain further and to dispose of it or drive it into the ground. this is where long term studies are vulnerable, because that point may be 8 - 10 years or 100K - 150K miles for some, but not others.

Discover the power of the button!

In the Q45 forum, we don't regard our cars as well broken in until something over 100K miles. Not reaching 300K miiles is an indication of inadequate maintenance. But the VH series is more conservatively designed than the VK series.

I would encourage anyone within 300 milse of T-3 to take their Infiniti or that other brand Lesux for service if they want to keep it longterm with minimal degradation of performance over time.

Modified by maxnix at 9:27 AM 11/2/2007

Discover the power of the button!

1. More work = fewer participants

2. It's be like when the dentist asks how often you've been flossing. People would either lie or avoid responding, neither of which would be good for the research.

One possible mitigating factor is that people who take the time to participate in reliability research probably care about reliability enough to properly maintain their cars.

What sort of maintenance beyond the OEM schedule do you suggest?

Mechanical ATF exchanges, install auxiliary ATF cooler, general preventative maintenance to replace wear parts and fluids before they fail of completely wear out.

The Q45tech school of long term automotive maintenance. Not a common view in our throw away society.

Discover the power of the button!

I recently added a Common Auto Repairs Database (CARDb) to the site. People posting common repairs can include a link to a forum thread discussing the problem. I hope this will make it easier for people to find this information, while helping to grow the forums that have been lending a hand with the research.

Common Auto Repairs Database (CARDb)

Also, still looking for more M owners to participate in the reliability research.