CR reviews Versa in Nov. issue

[catnap]

Consumer Report reviewed the Versa, Fit, Hyundai ???, Kia Rio, and Yaris in the new issue. The Fit was the only one that got a recommended sign. They said the Versa got 28mpg (1 to 2 mpg better than what I'm getting). They had complaints with the manual transmission. They also mentioned how difficult it was to get ABS and they trashed it's braking abilityw/o ABS. On their list on the first page though the Versa with CVT was No. 1 but did not get a check (????). The manual Versa was far down the list.(a separate list for manuals) I have a big issue with the list though because they included (and checked) the Scion xB. No way is that big ugly box the same class of car as the rest. The Scion xA was far down the list.They also had glowing bit about one of the Ford Focus's (Foci?).If anyone can post the report or email it to me I'd appreciate it - I am not a member and cannot view the website. I read it in a bookstore.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I can't think of a time I've agreed with Consumer Reports on the subject of automobiles.

Their checks are signed by Honda and Toyota.

[OKVersa]

I still don't understand why the Versa, Fit, and Yaris are grouped together while the Sentra, Civic, Matrix, Focus and Vibe are grouped together.

Maybe Toyota has the same trouble with Matrix and Corolla.

Who decided that? In my mind, the Versa is with the Sentra, Civic, Focus, Matrix and Vibe class, while the Fit and Yaris are in the mini-Cooper class.

When the Versa Sedan comes out, I'm wondering which group it will fall into.

And isn't it interesting the Aveo isn't included in the first group and the Cobalt in the second. Can't Chevy keep up?

[Ever Victorious]

I can't think of a time I've agreed with Consumer Reports on the subject of automobiles.

I never agree with them on ANY topic..

They love to say that extended warranties on computers aren't worth it, never buy them, computers never break because they're electornic... HA!

First off, there are mechanical components to computers that frequently break. Anyone ever heard of a little device called a hard drive?

And second... the electronic components are so much more complicated, yet built of cheaper materials.

I used to work for a certain major national computer retailer/repair company... My personal view on computers and warranties was: if you plan to keep the computer 3 years, you're buying the warranty, because I can GUARANTEE you it will break within that time period.

(Statistically, pretty true.. if you read the studies of people who actually know their stuff, modern computer EXCEPT APPLE have a 75% chance of breaking within 3 years.)

[MinisterofDOOM]

I've built dozens of computers in my life, but I went to a local shop for my own computer for EXACTLY that reason: extended warranty. Lo and behold, 9 months into my 12 month everything-covered warranty, my power supply decides it would better enjoy life as a frying pan and self-destructs, taking my Radeon 9800 with it. Drop it off at the shop and a day later both are replaced and the system's been run through a burn-in cycle, free of charge. Bam. Headache gone.

[jacksan1]

I know that this is a car thread, but let me say something about the extended warranty of computers.

CR does not say computers never break. They say that, statistically speaking, the chance of having a breakage that exceeds the cost of an extended warranty during the warrany period is not that high. If a computer component breaks and you have an extended warranty, you are then covered, but if the replacement component and labor cost (if you let someone else do it) is less than what you are paying for the warranty, then you are not coming out ahead.

Take an example of a power supply failure. If you are paying $200 for an extended warranty, and the actual cost of replacing a power supply is $100, then you would be better off without the extended warranty, at least monetarily.

Of course, I do not discount the "peace of mind" factor. Life is not all about the monetary net gain.

[jacksan1]

(Statistically, pretty true.. if you read the studies of people who actually know their stuff, modern computer EXCEPT APPLE have a 75% chance of breaking within 3 years.)

That is interesting - I went to IT hardware engineering (PC) after leaving automotive, where we designed computers. I have never heard of that kind of statistic. I have personally owned five different PCs in ten years and none had a failure in three years. I know other people who have owned PCs during the same period, and none of them had any failures, at least not those that I am aware of. That's about 20 PCs without failure for the same period. And none of them are Apple. I know that is not a statistically significant sample size, but neverthelss, if the MTBF is 36 months, that would already be pretty significant, but you are citing a 75% probability. Is that the recent trend that I am not aware of? If it is, it's a shocking piece of data.

[kc5f]

Five here in the last ten years, too, including our kids' laptops for college. My daughter has a hard drive cable in her Gateway laptop that won't stay plugged in. Otherwise, no hardware problems. (We just won't buy Gateways again!)

[Kalok]

Typically, if a component is going to fail, not due to an outside of itself cause, it will fail during the first 72 hours of power on time. Meaning the first 72 hours that is spent actually having the power turned on. This is why most reputable companies burn in a system for at least three days (72 hours). Notice I said TYPICALLY.

With this being said, most computer components have a year warranty, so even if you build a system yourself, the outside worst that you would have to do is to pay shipping costs out of your pocket. Most places that you purchase components have a 30-day "bring it back to us" policy.

[Ever Victorious]

Hmm... so much going on here, where to start?

Well, let's just start by reiterating that I've been a repair technician on the front lines for over a decade now. I dealt with customers, not theories (no disrespect to engineering students, you guys just don't get to see the real-world application).

The "only fails within 72 hours" myth is just that. Myth. only 5% of machines have a hardware failure "out of the box" (which is any time within the first 14 days, by industry standard).

However, I could corroborate (from personal experience as a technician)data published year after year by PC Magazine that the average failure rate for year 1 is about 11%, and grows quickly after that. Some manufacturers (ex: Dell) have a failure rate of 25% between years 1-2 (making the statistical 0-2 year failure rate 31%). And it grows basically exponentially after that.

Now, "failure" means any hardware failure... CPU fan, power supply, hard drive, what have you. far and away the most common failure is the hard drive, followed by the motherboard, optical drive, and power supply (other components rarely fail).

Now something else: I know a lot of you probably have built or self-built generic PCs. this is NOT the norm of American computing. The largest numbers of machines in service are Dell and HP. Both of these manufacturers use a lot of proprietary parts in their manufacturing process, which cost far more as repair/replacement parts than their generic counterparts.

Practical example from near the end of my last job (Feb 2006):

$600 HP machine, 15 months old. Outside of manufacturer's warranty. Power supply failure. Very common, as HP used to use 150W power supplies where most others would use 250W or higher. (They now use 180W and 200W for the same applications, so not really any better). this part originally was designed by eMachines as a proprietary form factor, that eventually became Micro-ATX. However, it also requires an HP mounting bracket because HP changed the form factor. Cost of power supply: $149.99 from HP (after middle-man markup, of course). Cost of labor: $99.99.

Cost of 3 year basic warranty on same machine: $179.99

In the cases of mom-n-pop generics where you have enough technical skill to replace your own parts, a warranty may not make sense. but take the other 95%+ of America into consideration (especially from the technician's point of view, not the salesman's) and it really gets to be clear why.

The other fun thing about computers is they tend to fail in clusters.

Practical example from my new job (around April of this year):

X client orders 1075 new Dell workstations. around 300 of them have their hard drives fail within 1 month. All drives are replaced and of those, another 12 have drives fail within another month.

That is a statistical aberration on the other side, which means somewhere else, someone is getting away with having a computer that statistically SHOULD break... well, NOT.

Statistics. It's not Math. It's English on Drugs.

[versula]

(Statistically, pretty true.. if you read the studies of people who actually know their stuff, modern computer EXCEPT APPLE have a 75% chance of breaking within 3 years.)

I have two apples and have had one for about 3.5 yrs and the other for about 2.5 without any problems. One is a laptop so I am knocking on wood about that... I like apples but WTF is up with the crappy ipod? I bought one that had major issues and bought another one that crashed like three days after it was 1 year old and lost all my music. Three months later, it crashed again and does not work at all.

And anyway, back to CR, they said some crap about how they would give the Focus a recomendation if it hadn't failed the IIHA test so badly. WTF? The Focus is a total piece of garbage (having owned one, I speak from experience) that pales in comparison to the Versa. They must have been delusional from the probable fumes pouring from the Focus' engine compartment or something to give ita glowing review.

[Jemdawg]

I'm on iPod #4 right now.

The first died of old age, it was the first model produced back in 2002.The second was stolen out of my locked car in front of my house last year by some punk kid.The third randomly stopped working and Apple refused to replace it, blaming me for accidental damage regardless of the fact that it hadn't been dropped.iPod #4 is still kicking, hopefully it'll last me awhile.

It's weird that I have so many iPod problems but my iBook gives me none.

[Ever Victorious]

Early iPods are sought after because they were actually built by Apple. Apple couldn't keep up production, so they farmed out production to HP. For a while, there were HP iPods and Apple iPods at the same time. Apple took some heat, and made HP brand all of them as Apples.

I think HP still builds them. I have a hard time believing that these things would pass Apple QC.

I'm on iPod #2 (both Shuffles), and I didn't use #1 terribly much or hard, but it died after 8 months. I haven't used #2 since I bought the Versa because I can put my whole MP3 collection in the dash.

But we digress.

[catnap]

This thread has gotten way off topic. Can we return to CR's review of the Versa please?

[jacksan1]

This thread has gotten way off topic. Can we return to CR's review of the Versa please?

I agree with you. Sorry about that.

By the way, where did you get all the information that you had in your original post? I am a member of the Consumerreports.org, and none of that information is available there, so far as I can see.

[catnap]

I read the report in the Nov. issue of CR in a bookstore.

[Elmojo]

I subscribe to CR, and will be happy to scan and post the article when I get it.

[proxim2020]

I hate to get off topic again, but I've been building computer since I was 16. I've been playing with them my whole life. I've built all of the computer that I and my wife has used. We've never experienced and failures of any type. Well we did have the motherboard battery fail on us a few times. I never built a computer that cost more than $300 (I have very strict budgets). If you have absolutely no idea about computers, make sure you buy the warranty.

Back on topic,

Their checks are signed by Honda and Toyota.

Don't forget Ford. They've paid for every award they won and excellent review received

If there's been complaints filed because of ABS availability, I agree with it. Nissan brought that one on themselves. As to driving without ABS, I can't agree or disagree. While we have tons of members that don't have ABS and are perfectly fine, we don't have any contact with all those V owners out there. So that could be true.

[catnap]

Correction:Evidently it's the Dec. issue that I read in the bookstore because I saw the Nov issue in the library and it wasn't in that.

[motoguy128]

I read the Car and Driver comparison back in July and I think their review was pretty fair. I agree wiht others... Consumers reports, although typically unbiased is sometimes a little out of touch.

[Link3]

Well, the 2007 Versa received an "Automotive Best Buy Award" from Consumers Digest. However, for what its worth, CD used a photo of a Tiida instead of a Versa (at least for the internet award page).

http://www.consumersdigest.com/versa.html

[jacksan1]

Hate to say this, but winning an award like that from Consumer Digest doesn't mean much. CD, a CR wannabe, has nowhere the credibility in the eyes of the public as CR, or for that matter, as internet sites like Edmunds.com.

[rwanttaja]

On their list on the first page though the Versa with CVT was No. 1 but did not get a check (????).

The additional information on the check says that the recommendation is awarded for a number of factors. One of those factors is reliability...and while the Fit is has a high rating, the Versa is listed as being a new model and hence no information is available. After a long enough period to establish a reliability history, the Versa may indeed end up with the checkmark.

Overall, I felt the Versa review was pretty accurate. Reading the reviews of the Fit and the Yaris merely reinforced my opinion that the Versa was the best of the lot. They liked the quality of the Versa's interior, and didn't like the Fit's driver-comfort or the Yaris' handling.

Also in the same issue (in the front of the magazine) is a review of the SmartCar. CR calls it the worst car they've ever tested....

Ron