Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas.

Re: (Jimefam)

szhosain — 2008-08-29T00:14:26-08:00

Lots of people took it here: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/352742.

I was Centrist ... 60% on both. Described me too.

Re: (HashiriyaS14)

Jimefam — 2008-08-28T23:52:59-08:00

Quote, originally posted by HashiriyaS14 raquo;

Well, you're a "something". Everyone has an affiliation of some kind, depending on what their stances on the issues are. Take this quiz and let us know where you come out:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 70%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 70%.

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...

LIBERTARIANS support maximum liberty in both personal and

economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one

that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence.

Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose

government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate

diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.

This fits me to a t.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (szhosain)

audtatious — 2008-08-27T00:23:30-08:00

There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors in his past that are still coming to light. I'm interested in seeing what comes of the Ayres information and connections that are being dug up. I'm not saying there is necessarily anything of consequence but if there is I would like to know now instead of 2 years from now if he is elected and we've found out we have been hood winked.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (dwlf89)

szhosain — 2008-08-26T22:47:17-08:00

The problem with trying to "get to know Obama" is that there is nothing to know.

No substance, no depth, nothing of consequence.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (96Qowner)

dwlf89 — 2008-08-26T19:57:20-08:00

Quote, originally posted by 96Qowner raquo;

I'm a little worried. It appears all these people who love Obama don't know anything about him, and DON'T CARE that they don't.

Wow.

couldn't agree more!

Re: (Jimefam)

HashiriyaS14 — 2008-08-26T07:28:08-08:00

Quote, originally posted by Jimefam raquo;

By the way I am not a liberal or conservative. I make up my own damn mind and dont follow party politics.

Well, you're a "something". Everyone has an affiliation of some kind, depending on what their stances on the issues are. Take this quiz and let us know where you come out:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

Quote, originally posted by Jimefam raquo;

I would consider myself a republican if not for the religious element which has infected that party.

You and me both, pal.

Hell, I actually REGISTERED DEMOCRAT this year. If you'd told me in 1999 that I would be a registered Democrat in 2008, I would have laughed myself into a seizure. That's how much the GOP has changed, although obviously that change has been in the works since Falwell and the "Moral Majority" twisted the character of the Republican Party in the 1970s.

AZhitman — 2008-08-25T11:01:38-08:00

Welcome aboard, Jim.

I think I said my piece in the first post, and I stand by it today. I don'tWANT a "global president", and I sure as HELL don't want a president who limp-wrists his way through apologies for this country.

We may not do things right all the time. But the constant influx of people streaming across the borders for the past 200 years tells me we're doing a hell of a lot RIGHT.

Re: (Marenta)

Jimefam — 2008-08-23T19:32:20-08:00

WOW lots of issues in this thread. First, how did comments about obama being ashamed of americans for their lack of education turn into a mexican bashing? Obama is right that american education pales in comparision to the rest of the world.

I went through the entire spectrum of education in this country and others. I went mostly to public schools here but also to expensive private schools and even charter schools that replace failing schools. I moved around so much because I liked to cause trouble and was kicked out of schools every so often leaving my parents little choice but to try different approaches. I can say that the education a child recieves in this country is far below that of other industrialized nations and a even some third world countries. On the other hand american colleges and universities are far superior to almost any countries. Perhaps this is why we see such a small amount of college grads compared to our population.

As far as mexicans expecting americans to learn spanish, that is an absurd notion that is more based on someones misdirected sense of "patriotism" than actual fact. Hitman was wondering how a US school can become 85% hispanic. The answer is very simple its economics and comfort. Spanish immigrants tend to be in lower income brackets than whites because they come from poorer countries and have to establish roots here. Because they almost exclusively follow this trend the result is whole neighborhoods of hispanics similar to what we see with african americans in this country. Also they want to live near other hispanics because it allows them to feel less alienated and in peace.

I also take issue with people who say immigrants are here to "rape" this country economically and cost our economy billions with their use of welfare and medicaid. This is simply untrue as many economist and politicians have pointed out. NY city mayor Michael bloomberg a republican has pointed out that his city recieves an economic benefit in the millions after taking into account the cost of those social programs. White americans have always had a racist element to them from slavery to european immigrants being called dagos and other slurs and forced to take low paying jobs and live in slums which is exactly what we are seeing today with mexicans. No they are not here to take over your country there will be a period of friction caracterized by the resistance and docile racism we are experencing now. Ultimately they will integrate as every other wave of immigrants has.

I can fully understand your resentment and insecurity at seeing cars here with flags on them from different countries and having to press 1 for english but be honest. That is my biggest gripe with the so called immigration debate, it is not so much to secure our country as it is we want to see less "beaners and spics" here. I am a colombian living in what is a very white part of the US and deal with alot of racism day to day and believe me it is very widespread. I take no issue with it as I realize that most of it is ignorance and misinformation but it often amazes me to see it in the most unexpected of places.

Americans should not learn a second language we should instead focus on improving our math and science skills which are amongst the worst in the world. Also spend time to train our blue collar workers in more technical skills so that when their jobs get sent overseas as they should in a capitalist economy they will prosper. As far as spanking I will say this, I was spanked and spanked and the beaten and guess what? It was no big deal it did not dissuade me from doing anything that I chose. What finally worked was my father communicating to me as a man and reasoning with me. The best tool for raising a child is an interested and invested parent.

By the way I am not a liberal or conservative. I make up my own damn mind and dont follow party politics. I would consider myself a republican if not for the religious element which has infected that party. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Re: (smockers83)

Marenta — 2008-07-26T12:24:59-08:00

So, what you're saying is that it's the parent's fault.. Wow, that sounds JUST like the reasoning behind every other thing that's wrong with America's youth.

And it's the truth, too. Funny thing is, it all started when Liberals decided it was "wrong" to spank your child. Don't get me wrong, I didn't say "beat", I said "spank". I actually connive my child, since that works better on him anyway, than spanking. But, once we all started to coddle our children, it suddenly became okay to let the TV babysit them when we became overworked. And, it's alright to not make them do chores, to not hold them accountable for their mistakes, and to not make them do something more erstwhile.

Hell, it's gotten so far as to say that we coddle other fcsking countries and terrorists. For fcsking sake, these guys blew up buildings with fcksing airplanes in the middle of New Fcksing York God Damned City. And you want us to interrogate them with decency? I mean, they'd send their 6 year old daughter or son with a bomb strapped to their chest and some flowers up to you to blow your arse up in a millisecond if they had the fcsking chance. Come the fcsk on people, how much more liberal do we have to be before we end up puking the Leftie dildo we've had stuck up our ***? I'm pretty tired of this. I'm pro-choice, pro-land, pro-freedom. But, I am pro-gun, pro-military, pro-business, pro-trade, pro-conservative, and pro-republican. (Yeah, I'm pretty republican, I'm in the military, sue me.)

I'm tired of all this crap. GW Jr. grew a pair, told the UN and the rest of the world to take it up the pooper and that we were going to carry our big stick, smack some flies down that were buzzing around and then cleared the air and walked away. But, we've been in there too long. It doesn't matter who gets elected this next go around, they're going to be an imbecile. Obama or McCain, this country is screwed. All I have to say is, you all better stock up on your assault rifles and Class III and IIII weapons and gear before it goes bye-bye. Both McCain and Obama have lost love for gun control, so, there goes that idea.

Tax ........................... 0.02

Re: (rn79870)

smockers83 — 2008-07-26T06:49:46-08:00

And just being a responsible parent. I remember when I was a kid, I always wanted to go to McDonalds, but my parents would only take us there once a month or two, no matter how much I complained. I didn't know what's good for me, my parents did. Now the only time I eat fast food is on road trips just because its fast and I don't have time to sit down and eat.

The main problem with kids today is responsible parenting.

Re: (Marenta)

rn79870 — 2008-07-26T06:08:18-08:00

That's only part of the problem, to finish your plan, you'd have to take Jonny's PS2 away from him, and the internet. Instead, give him a ball and a bat.

Re: (AZhitman)

Marenta — 2008-07-25T20:31:14-08:00

You know.. as far as embarrassment goes.. there are a few things. Yes, languages. Okay. Let's see, I've had to ask for special assistance, in my very forgotten Spanish (It's been 10 years since HS. Give me a break.) because the all of the clerks in every single store in South Florida DO NOT speak English. They have BANNERS that advertise that they actually SPEAK ENGLISH as a selling point to bring in business. Same thing with Corpus Cristi, and Chula Vista. But, at least in all those locations, you might actually change the heritage from which you came.

The one thing I think all Americans should be absolutely disgustedly embarrassed about is how we all love to feed upon MSG and McDonalds. I want to personally blow up every single one of those damned Golden Arches in the world and every other fast food joint. We are so hugely obese it's like we deserve to have bigger cars just so we can drive our fat asses around in them. So, perhaps instead of focusing on the fact that we don't all know another language fluently, how about we actually ensure that our children don't end up being land whales?

Re: (rn79870)

AZhitman — 2008-07-16T23:24:49-08:00

Quote, originally posted by rn79870 raquo;

Any young person who understands that is well on their way to a successful life. THey have no idea how much it really counts for.

Absolutely.

I was fortunate enough to graduate from a college that requires a fairly rigorous and comprehensive writing proficiency exam prior to graduation - not only for liberal arts majors but students in ALL disciplines.

Student athletes trembled in their cleats.

Re: (AZhitman)

rn79870 — 2008-07-16T06:18:52-08:00

Quote, originally posted by AZhitman raquo;

True.

And I'd argue that even MORE important is the ability to translate thought into clear, concise, written communications. The ability to write well definitely opens a lot of doors in the work force.

Any young person who understands that is well on their way to a successful life. THey have no idea how much it really counts for.

Re: (AZhitman)

MinisterofDOOM — 2008-07-16T04:59:57-08:00

Here's my standpoint on the matter:

It takes a SPECIAL kind of arrogance to expect an entire nation to adapt to you rather than be willing to adapt yourself to the new environment that YOU CHOSE to live in. I don't care what race you are, or what langauge you speak, or what country you're going from or to. The state of mind is the same. And it's disgusting. It's a small snapshot of what is wrong with a huge portion of the population of the world today.

AZhitman — 2008-07-15T23:50:59-08:00

True.

And I'd argue that even MORE important is the ability to translate thought into clear, concise, written communications. The ability to write well definitely opens a lot of doors in the work force.

skylndrftr — 2008-07-15T23:06:32-08:00

I'll grant everyone in here (probably won't get much disagreement) that more important than anyone learning a second language in this country, is making sure our young people are actually learning good english skills.

I actually have to make a statement that abbreviations such as 'LOL' 'WTF' etc. are not appropriate in writing.

I had a recruiter comment to me that she meets lots of engineers who are ESL with better English skills than people who have been raised here.

AZhitman — 2008-07-15T09:54:57-08:00

The unfortunate part is that English is one of THE most difficult languages to master.

It is, like America, a "melting pot", substantially flawed, yet still preferred.

Re: (skylndrftr)

OriginalWheelman — 2008-07-15T08:08:59-08:00

Quote, originally posted by skylndrftr raquo;

thats where the Latin came from, its not a history we want to repeat

Why not?

We're close to having the whole world speaking 1 language. We're supposed to be embarrassed because it's the one we speak? So what? If the whole world spoke 1 language things would be a lot simpler. What is with this "we should coddle the rest of the world" attitude? They are learning English for a reason, not cause they arbitrarily decided. They want to learn our language, great, lets spend money elsewhere instead of teaching our kids what may soon be dead languages. I took 4 years of language and the time I cited is the only time I've ever used it.

Re: (WDRacing)

skylndrftr — 2008-07-15T07:37:09-08:00

Quote, originally posted by WDRacing raquo;

Dude...we all know things change. But our language is English...if you want to come to America to prosper then you need to do your best to learn it. We do not need to learn another language so that others may prosper.

English is the most spoken language in the world...success = speak it.

I wasn't commenting on people here not learning English. I was commenting on

Quote raquo;

The English brought civilization to most of the world, as one of the first industrialized nations. Their language spread with their culture and their technology.

thats where the Latin came from, its not a history we want to repeat

HashiriyaS14 — 2008-07-14T03:34:31-08:00

I DO think that this statement was bad politics from Obama, as is any other "I'm embarassed of America" kind of statement. The Democrats can't seem to stop making these sort of "self-loathing" (greg's terminology) statements, it hurt Kerry in 2004.

Anyway, materially, I think we're focusing on nothing. He said this for political reasons, albeit shxtty ones. All candidates say things so that they'll be viewed in a certain light, and that's what he did here. He just said, IMO, the WRONG thing. He needs to remember that while it IS popular for him to be seen as internationally popular, he still needs to run and win in AMERICA.

Anyway, I *do* wish he'd reverse his stance on NCLB, that is some "flip-flopping" I wouldn't mind. My mom is a teacher and she's described NCLB's failings in detail to me.

I DO think that more foreign language training in US schools would be a good thing, but ultimately, other than *possibly* Spanish, we don't NEED the extra language skills as much as the Europeans do because we don't have a zillion tiny countries sitting next to each other with lots of cross-travel.

Everyone in the DC offices of my company, a Dutch company, speaks like 5 languages except for me. They have to, in order to be able to get around Europe well.

Re: (OriginalWheelman)

WDRacing — 2008-07-13T20:01:02-08:00

I'm totally down with wasting billions so long as I get a ride to the moon

Re: (WDRacing)

OriginalWheelman — 2008-07-13T19:23:33-08:00

Quote, originally posted by WDRacing raquo;

Lord knows we've wasted enough cash on other things...Mars

I beg to differ. Space travel is very important. A lot has come from space travel, and we really are going to need another planet soon.

Re:

audtatious — 2008-07-13T13:59:16-08:00

Welcome to my house, make yourself at home. Oh, you want the Master Bedroom instead of the Guest room. Ok??? Oh, you want to have your dinner served to you in my bed so you can wake up nicely to take a long hot shower in my tub so you can go outside to lay out by my pool? And you want me to serve you what for lunch???? AND a cocktail? I can't watch TV aftr 7pm because it may interrupt your relaxation time?

Re: (skylndrftr)

WDRacing — 2008-07-13T13:38:52-08:00

Quote, originally posted by skylndrftr raquo;

A few thousand years ago everyone learned Latin (and look at how well that worked)...things in the world change

I'm not even against learning another language, I'm against people who seem to think I NEED to speak something other then English.

English is the most spoken language in the world...success = speak it.

Come here legally and I'll support any program we can come up with to include FREE English lessons for those willing to learn. I'm all for helping my fellow man, but I'm NOT going to agree with changing the way my country works in order to accommodate foreign nationals.

The happy medium is not changing our language, but doing everything we can in order to make it easier for immigrants to learn English. I think that's more then fair...this would involve any type of education deemed necessary all paid for by the Gov. Lord knows we've wasted enough cash on other things...Mars

Even if we had to build seperate schools...this alone would increase jobs, education and generally provide a basis for a better quality of life. All of which could be improved on as we feel our way into the 22nd Century as a bigger better America...that speaks English.

Is that not acceptable?

Re: (skylndrftr)

OriginalWheelman — 2008-07-13T12:40:12-08:00

Yeah things do change, like when a scientists tried to create a "world language" called Esperanto. It failed, miserably, people decide to just learn English instead.

skylndrftr — 2008-07-13T11:30:00-08:00

A few thousand years ago everyone learned Latin (and look at how well that worked)...things in the world change

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (smockers83)

OriginalWheelman — 2008-07-13T11:21:51-08:00

Half my ancestors learned English when they came here. A few were forced to learn English by the English. The world is learning English for a reason. The English brought civilization to most of the world, as one of the first industrialized nations. Their language spread with their culture and their technology. Hell the reason South America speaks Spanish is because the Conquistadors brought it with them! Example, what's the Japanese word for turbo? Turbo. What's the German word for Tshirt? Tshirt. World languages mix. Any American cook knows a handful of French, Saute etc. The point is they all wanted to come here. Why should here change to suit them. If they liked America so much, why change it? Everyone else came and conformed.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (smockers83)

audtatious — 2008-07-13T11:13:21-08:00

Yes, I am aware and that's the way it's been in the past. There just seems to be the move to press Spanish as a co-language here in the states due to the mass number of Mexican immigrants and I believe that is wrong.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (audtatious)

smockers83 — 2008-07-13T10:52:56-08:00

The first generations that are coming over will have the hardest time with English and language barriers. It happened in every wave before--people come over not really knowing English but their kids are born and they learn English and can help the parents even more. Its a process.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)

audtatious — 2008-07-13T08:33:37-08:00

I would say that myself and the others in this thread 100% support hispanics who come over to the US legally and work to adapt. Just as I would work to adapt and learn spanish if I moved to Mexico.

In my day to day's, I have yet run across a reason to know a 2nd language. If the reasoning behind learning Spanish is to make the hispanics feel more welcome here and allow them to more easily adapt then why should we not also have to learn other languages for the others who come over here as well? I know the answer of course, we have far more of an inflood of Mexican nationals than we do with other countries simply because we border them and it's far easier for them to get here. The one thing the quota system in the past helped was it limited such a huge influx of people from the same country as the percentages were spread out. That is no longer the case anymore and it's wrong and will bite us in the butt.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)

rn79870 — 2008-07-13T07:52:31-08:00

Quote, originally posted by AZhitman raquo;

I do it at least 3x a week here. Usually it's because some service industry worker is too dumb to go run and get one of the other 50% of employees who IS bilingual to help. My spanish is JUST bad enough to screw up their order.

The school my GF teaches at? EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT HISPANIC.

How is that? HOW?

Nothing against them, or their kids. BUT HOW does a US school become 85% Hispanic? HOW?

Assuming they are here legally, what to you propose Greg? Shall we require them to stay home and starve until they get a working knowledge of english? At least they are willing to work for a living, and that is far, far more respectable than what many inner-city American youth pursue for a career. Drug sales, gang banging and welfare fraud. Who do you really respect in this regard?

I get frustrated when I order something from a Hispanic person due to the language barrier, yet when I think about it, they speak English better than I speak Spanish. At least they are trying to learn their new language. Plus they are working at a job I wouldn't want to do.

Re: (skylndrftr)

WDRacing — 2008-07-13T04:33:15-08:00

Quote, originally posted by skylndrftr raquo;

Wow...

How bout instead I work to fix things. I'm a citizen just as much as you. If you or anyone else thinks this country is perfect then why bother voting? Things will work themselves out right?

I am actually embarassed for our country right now that someone would say that to another citizen.

Does your idea of fixing things entail forcing my Son to learn another language? How about NO...

My opinion isn't that America is perfect, but it is that we speak English here. You can call me racist all you want...so long as you do so in English.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (OriginalWheelman)

AZhitman — 2008-07-13T00:18:47-08:00

Quote, originally posted by OriginalWheelman raquo;

Maybe someone should tell Mr. Obama about the time that I was working and two tourists came in trying to point around to what they wanted, not speaking a word of English. After a listening to them talk amongst themselves, I realized they were speaking German, and with a "Kan ich hilfe dir?", they smiled and I served them, speaking German. I don't know about you guys, but every kid who went to my middle of nowhere school district learned a foreign language.

The school my GF teaches at? EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT HISPANIC.

How is that? HOW?

Nothing against them, or their kids. BUT HOW does a US school become 85% Hispanic? HOW?

AZhitman — 2008-07-13T00:15:20-08:00

Ummm, no.

This isn't "racism".

This is people being fed the HELL up with political correctness, with catering to special interests, with mollycoddling border-jumpers, with supposed "leaders" telling us WE should be ashamed of ourselves and our country - Our country that's so damn good that people will DIE to try to get here.

Screw him and his self-loathing. We're not victims and we don't need his brand of "salvation".

Re: (WDRacing)

skylndrftr — 2008-07-12T23:09:15-08:00

Theres discussing the concept that was brought up and theres racism...I think we have determined where you guys stand.

Re: (skylndrftr)

audtatious — 2008-07-12T23:07:00-08:00

embarrassed about what said to who?

Enablement sux no matter how you spin it. Why don't we go ahead and give Mexico the left-coast and be done with it? The amount of illegals who will be voting will eventually spit out enough kids where they will be the majority in a few years anyway.

Give it up

skylndrftr — 2008-07-12T21:41:01-08:00

Wow...

How bout instead I work to fix things. I'm a citizen just as much as you. If you or anyone else thinks this country is perfect then why bother voting? Things will work themselves out right?

I am actually embarassed for our country right now that someone would say that to another citizen.

Re: (skylndrftr)

WDRacing — 2008-07-12T18:49:55-08:00

Quote, originally posted by skylndrftr raquo;

The basis for this thread is the language in this country. You might say never be embaassed but try and rectify that with electing a leader whos grasp of our language is matched by many preteens. And he doesn't know any other one. I am embarrassed.

I wouldn't go so far as to say not speaking another language is embarrassing but to say you should never be embarassed is just stupid, and thats what you said.

I dunno what kind of lame excuse for living in my country you just tried to give...but GTFO.

Liberals can always interpret things to mean something else. Either you're embarrassed that Americans don't speak more then one language or you aren't...PERIOD. If you don't like English...GTFO.

skylndrftr — 2008-07-12T17:34:03-08:00

I wouldn't go so far as to say not speaking another language is embarrassing but to say you should never be embarassed is just stupid, and thats what you said.

Re: (skylndrftr)

WDRacing — 2008-07-12T16:04:28-08:00

Quote, originally posted by skylndrftr raquo;

I would rather he be honest than try to be unquestioningly patriotic.

So when the representative of the Democratic party says to the world He's embarrassed that our citizens don't speak a foreign language you're ok with that because he was honest?

Even though the OTHER citizens of OTHER countries are striving to speak English it's ok for a possible future leader of my great country to be ashamed of me because I don't know a different language. Yet he can call upon me to throw down my life in order to protect and preserve the American way of life.

I say to you NO SIR...that is NOT ok Not now and not EVER.

America stands for Freedom and Independence..one Nation UNDER GOD. To be embarrassed of that is to admit that you simply have lost touch with what America truly represents. That means you do NOT represent America...but rather something different...something UN American.

If change means giving up the very way of life that I have fought to preserve...that my brothers have paid the ultimate price for...I say to you Obama is a terrorist in the most basic of forms. To change our way of life if to forget what we fought so hard to become.

Give that up at your parel...for change comes at great expense to those who walk into the future with open arms and don't question the Devil when He brings gifts.

Re: (skylndrftr)

OriginalWheelman — 2008-07-12T15:59:25-08:00

Don't bite the hand that feeds....

skylndrftr — 2008-07-12T15:36:13-08:00

I would rather he be honest than try to be unquestioningly patriotic.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)

WDRacing — 2008-07-12T12:25:26-08:00

As the leader or potential leader of the Country, you NEVER say you're embarrassed Bob. You know...like you mentioned he should have learned in 1st year politics...along with how to lie. Seems like he got the lying down...

Especially since he's embarressed about ME...since I only speak English. Way to go!!! BE embarressed cause I speak the chosen language of my OWN Country...

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (WDRacing)

rn79870 — 2008-07-12T12:16:25-08:00

Many times I'm embarrassed to be an American. Here is just one example where my country, or it's citizens embarrass me.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/351333

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (OriginalWheelman)

WDRacing — 2008-07-12T11:38:46-08:00

Everyone is missing the issue here...both candidates are pro education. But which one said he was embarrassed?

Two things you should NEVER do are say you're embarrassed to be American or embarrassed for something we don't do as well as someone else.

That my friends is simply the way it is. If you don't feel that way...then by all means GTFO of MY country as soon as you can. Even if I was a supporter of Obama I'd be upset and thoroughly ashamed of myself right now.

I considered voting for him for about 1.5 weeks...I will now go outside and beat my own a$$.

Thank you Nico for making me research and make a better informed opinion.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)

OriginalWheelman — 2008-07-12T10:52:52-08:00

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (C-Kwik)

AZhitman — 2008-07-12T01:47:41-08:00

Quote, originally posted by C-Kwik raquo;

Anyone have the full video or at least a portion that includes a great deal more before and after that line? To be fair, we should evaluate the context of it. The 1 minute of speech that led up to that line (at which point it cuts off) leaves me believing he had a greater point to make.

I listened to it on the radio (XM)... He didn't really, Chano. It was quite agitating to hear, as it just dripped with disdain.

I "get" what he was getting at, but like I said in my OP rant, it was his condescending tone that disgusted me, and my rant came straight after hearing it all...

The whole "we should be ashamed of ourselves" thing makes me want to VOMIT.

Wanna know what we should be ashamed of?

We should be ashamed that we don't stand up and say STFU when someone besmirches our country.

We should be ashamed that we don't say, "Hey, WTF?" when someone shoplifts in plain view.

We should be ashamed that our entertainers and athletes make more money than our teachers, police, EMTs and firemen.

We should be ashamed that we don't collectively come together and say, "This is a great country - It ain't perfect, but it's ours, and we're working on it, and we love it."

My original post stands. "Fair" ain't in my lexicon.

Re: (smockers83)

AZhitman — 2008-07-12T01:40:18-08:00

Quote, originally posted by smockers83 raquo;

Every wave of immigration has learned English, why should this one be any different?

Thank you.

It shouldn't. I'm not opposed to immigration (I think it needs reform). I don't dislike people of other ethnicities (I think we've seen that). I don't wish harm or mistreatment on those who only seek a better life for their families (that's how I got here).

I think we need to look at history and demand excellence. America is a proud, beautiful, free country. And if you want to be here, you're going to BE an American, and Americans are a people who strive for excellence.

Get on the WIN train or go home.

Re: (skylndrftr)

smockers83 — 2008-07-11T23:36:33-08:00

The thing with languages in Europe and the US are completely different. Europe is a mix of languages and people can easily travel between countries of different languages, necessitating the need to know more than 1 language. However, if one moved to Europe, that person would be expected to know or learn the local language. The same as those moving to the US or should go for them. Kids in the US don't learn a 2nd language because the need for a 2nd language really isn't there. The only reason one would want to learn a 2nd language in the US is to be able to travel abroad. Every wave of immigration has learned English, why should this one be any different?

skylndrftr — 2008-07-11T21:21:03-08:00

I have a hispanic last name...and damn if I didn't fail high school spanish.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (AZhitman)

C-Kwik — 2008-07-11T19:10:48-08:00

Quote, originally posted by AZhitman raquo;

Side note: MY kids are learning Spanish. Not so they can "compete in the new economy", but so they can accurately describe how they want their landscaping to look.

I about fell outta my chair laughing at this.

I am fairly passionate about immigrants learning English. I can't and don't expect them to learn it fluently, but some basic essentials would be nice. In fact, a customer the other day (about 90% of our customers are Hispanic) asked if I speak Spanish. I told him no but we were able to carry out the transaction. At some point he randomly says Espanol, Por Favor, implying I should learn to speak it. I simply said he could learn English just the same.

I used to give my dad a hard time about it too. He can get by to some extent, but he could still do much better. My mom is much better at speaking English, though she still struggles quite a bit. Ironically, my Korean absollutely sucks. Its a wonder how we even communicate.

Re: (AZhitman)

skylndrftr — 2008-07-11T18:20:17-08:00

Quote, originally posted by AZhitman raquo;

When I go overseas, the first thing I want to learn in the native tongue is how to say, "I'm so sorry, I only speak English - Can you please help me?"

And I'll bet a lot of the time you can find someone who does. Wouldn't it be nice if the same thing happened when they came here?

Quote, originally posted by AZhitman raquo;

That's just being a HUMBLE AND KIND HUMAN BEING, which I think even the lefties can appreciate.

I would hope everybody appreciates this. thats not a left right issue (I'm sick of those terms), thats a good versus bad person issue.

Throwing money at education or forcing students tolearn another language aren't going to solve anything...however they are two things that will contribute to the solution. Just look at the problems we're having in the intelligence community recruiting people who speak languages such as Farsi or Arabic.

Re: (AZhitman)

audtatious — 2008-07-11T16:42:53-08:00

That's odd. First thing I try and lean is "where is the bathroom"

Re: (skylndrftr)

AZhitman — 2008-07-11T16:35:45-08:00

Quote, originally posted by skylndrftr raquo;

Encouragin people to learn spanish because there are Spanish people coming here IS dumb.

I went on a trip to China for a conference and watched several people bereatting hotel staff and resteraunt staff for poor English skills.

Very correct, sir.

And your colleagues need a good stiff backhand for their idiocy. No wonder we're thought of so poorly.

When I go overseas, the first thing I want to learn in the native tongue is how to say, "I'm so sorry, I only speak English - Can you please help me?"

That's just being a HUMBLE AND KIND HUMAN BEING, which I think even the lefties can appreciate.

skylndrftr — 2008-07-11T14:21:04-08:00

Ok Greg that made me laugh far enough.

I'm working on my MS and its about evenly split between foreign students and US students. I know some international students who struggle with english and then everyone in between all the way to knowing some US students who are fully bilingual (and not just spanish). [/nerd couner attack]

Encouragin people to learn spanish because there are Spanish people coming here IS dumb. People coming to live in this country SHOULD learn english. But, I went on a trip to China for a conference and watched several people I would consider colleagues, and probably would have considered friends, bereatting hotel staff and resteraunt staff for poor English skills. Your in there country make the effort just like you expect of them.

Re: (skylndrftr)

AZhitman — 2008-07-11T12:42:41-08:00

Quote, originally posted by skylndrftr raquo;

Your GF may have her opinion but I have my own and I hae a personal grasp on this one both in a job and in academia

In that case, I'll lay out our academia:

I'm a Policy Project away from my MA. She's 2 classes away from her Doctorate (in Education).

lt;/nerdbattlegt;

There's no shortage of comprehension of the issue at hand here - The one part I think you nailed SPOT-ON is we're sorely lacking in mastery of English.

Regardless, my point was, we have nothing to be "ashamed" of.

Continuous improvement is great, self-loathing is for losers.

Side note: MY kids are learning Spanish. Not so they can "compete in the new economy", but so they can accurately describe how they want their landscaping to look.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)

wingFeather — 2008-07-11T10:48:57-08:00

Quote, originally posted by rn79870 raquo;

I think when you do, you'll vote for Mr. O.

You thought wrong. Perhaps, like Obama, you've "inhaled" one too many times? This is one of the few ways I can understand how someone could look at the facts still vote for Obama. Mental imbalance would be the other.

Return to better days? Tell that to the Middle East. Tell them that we're not happy with what they're doing to "stop it". I'm sure that will work

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)

Repo Man — 2008-07-11T10:35:30-08:00

Quote, originally posted by rn79870 raquo;

I think when you do, you'll vote for Mr. O.

Not a snowball's chance in hell Bob.

Re: Merci Beaucoup, Obamallamas. (rn79870)

audtatious — 2008-07-11T10:21:08-08:00

Vietnam has nothing in correlation to what we are facing today. We have had two attacks in the US (possibly more smaller ones) and have had our embassy's and warships attacked as well by this group of individuals. They have declared war on us already regardless of our response.