HOW-TO: Fix Your Timing Chain Rattle

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

sanioll — 2005-06-22T18:18:14-08:00

put some soft clothing there, and start hitting it with a hammer, SOFTLY. To see if you can move the tensioner.

OKAY, I GOT NEWS FOR YOU PEOPLE.

MY S13 KA24DE WAS TICKING AS USUAL RIGHT. 114,000 MILES. N/A. ALL STOCK WITH KN FILTER.

LONG STORY SHORT. IT WAS TICKING BACK THEN, WHEN I WAS USING REGULAR PETROLIUM OIL.

LATER I SWITCHED TO MOBIL 1 FULL SYNTHETIC 10W-30, IT WAS STILL TICKING.

LAST WEEK, I WENT TO MOBIL 1 0W-40, WHICH I LIKE A LOT.

TO MY SURPRISE, THE TICKING IS GONE. YES, ITS GONE BABE!!

I HAVE ONLY REMOVED ONE TOP CHAIN GUIDE. THE ONE THAT SITS UNDER THE VALVE COVER. 2ND ONE IS STILL THERE, AND IT WAS TICKING. NOW WITH HEAVIER OIL IT DOES NOT.

*JUST SO YOU ALL KNOW.

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-06-20T19:30:23-08:00

Seems like your top tensioner is gone.... If you saw the video that I have... its obvious that your tensioner has something stuck in it or its just plain broken.

No there is no way to adjust these tensioners... They are operated by oil pressure.. its not like a belt tensioner where you can just tighten it.

In order to move your bottom tensioner, you have to remove the front cover I think and thats a PITA to do.. if your bottom tensioner moves fine then I would just leave it.

Make sure there is nothing stuck behind that top tensioner... If its still stuck.. Id replace it.

BTW, my chain did that too when I took the cam sprocket cover off... I suppose the tensioner isnt really tight yet... I think it will be tight when you start the motor...

Re: (SlIp'n'sLiDe)

silviaxspress — 2005-06-20T16:12:09-08:00

6 months after reading this post, I have finally decided to try work on my car.

I need help. I am stuck at the tensioner. It will not move at all! I have tried pushing the tensioner inward toward the chain and outward, but it just doesn't move. A new top tensioner would cost me $42.00, but should i change the bottom tensioner as well($38.00)??? There seems to be a lot more parts involve that needs to be remove, is this so? Please advise me as what i would need to remove so I have some idea before moving foward to replace tensioner(s). My dad is arguing that there might be a way to adjust the tensioners, which I keep saying NO. Is is true that tensioners cannot be adjusted?

At this moment, I have put it on hold. I will post pics of my chain guides later. It did not have much wear or rub on them.

Here how it looks like under the hood.

Now, here is a close up of where my timing tension is currently stopped at, an not even moving. It did move like 1/8" when pushing tword the chain, but that was about it.

Here are 2 videos to show how difficult it was.
Video #1
Had a real difficult time, can't figure out why it's so stiff! Used some Wd-40, but it didn't help.
https://www.csupomona.edu/~rvan/MVI_5294.AVI

Video #2
This video shows me moving the timing chain. Is it suppose to be that loose?
https://www.csupomona.edu/~rvan/MVI_5303.AVI

Modified by silviaxspress at 2:51 AM 6/21/2005

SlIp'n'sLiDe — 2005-06-20T08:02:27-08:00

thanks for the good write up, just inspired me to do this.

VinceSez — 2005-06-10T11:14:05-08:00

if i were to remove the two guides i wont have the "ticking of death" problem any more? or will it just slow down the problem?

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-06-10T04:24:57-08:00

YUP they did it for the DOHC but not too sure about SOHC. Doesnt hurt to see what people did with it.

But upper timing chain guides are usually useless it seems with Nissans

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

Neejay — 2005-06-09T17:12:15-08:00

Quote, originally posted by ILikeMy240sx raquo;

those two upper guides.. NOT THE LOWER TIMING CHAIN GUIDE are considered useless by Nissan. Its found in their TSB.. Nissan says you get rid of it. Go to the dealership and ask for those parts and theyll just say you dont need it.

DOHC right?

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-06-09T16:21:14-08:00

Re: HOW-TO: Fix Your Timing Chain Rattle (ILikeMy240sx)

scarboroughdub — 2005-06-06T20:41:48-08:00

so let me get this straight, you remove the guides completely and you dont buy new ones to replace them, you just assemble the cover back on and your set .

let me know cause i got the rattle problem right now and i was going to go to the dealership and buy all new parts thanks.

Blade7764 — 2005-06-04T12:05:45-08:00

It sounds like its the same problem, so all we have to do is remove the upper guide on our SOHC engines.

Re: (Blade7764)

Neejay — 2005-06-03T21:46:25-08:00

Quote, originally posted by Blade7764 raquo;

my s13 is SOHC tho, thats the prob

Same here....so far no one has posted a how-to/common problem for SOHC

I guess no one bothers with it...

Blade7764 — 2005-06-03T20:41:38-08:00

my s13 is SOHC tho, thats the prob

sXi — 2005-06-03T16:06:37-08:00

how do you tell when to replace the whole timing chain thing

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-06-02T14:22:45-08:00

S13 DOHC and S14 procedure should be similar except when it comes to adjusting the distributor. I included the picture of how S13 distributor should look like when its aligned properly. Other than that everything should be similar

Blade7764 — 2005-06-02T11:57:43-08:00

I beleive that s13's have the same problem, and if so, Im going to do this for sure. Sweet guide, I would love it if someone were to say the differences between the s13 and s14 so we don't mess up!

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-05-21T15:04:45-08:00

Im guessing low oil pressure at idle causing the rattling but I might be wrong.

There are # of things that will cause low oil pressure. Oil pump, oil filter, oil pick up, oil passage being blocked. As far as diagnosing oil pressure problem, I do not know much about it but checking the oil pressure would be the first step.

Remember, if your chain is rattling not because of the tensioner but oil pressure... even with the tensioners cleaned and guides removed, there is a chance you will still hear rattling due to the lower chain hitting on its guide(which you are not supppoed to remove)

DC2 Darren — 2005-05-20T17:27:49-08:00

mine only makes the noise at idle, the minute the engine goes above idle, the noise stops, is this the chain?

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

Neejay — 2005-05-07T22:07:27-08:00

Quote, originally posted by ILikeMy240sx raquo;

rattling during startup is probably due to little oil pressure during startup...

To take off the front cover, you do not have to drain oil because all the oil will be in your drain pan.

Oil pump would be the only thing causing this?

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-05-07T10:32:02-08:00

rattling during startup is probably due to little oil pressure during startup...

To take off the front cover, you do not have to drain oil because all the oil will be in your drain pan.

jgtc_s14 — 2005-05-07T08:20:00-08:00

hey would i have to drain my oil if i remove the front cover? or it dosent matter

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

Neejay — 2005-05-05T20:00:49-08:00

Quote, originally posted by ILikeMy240sx raquo;

I bet its the guides as you go faster, higher the rev and faster the chain spins...

Where is the rattling coming from? obviously if its coming from the front then its the guides

What causes the chain to rattle on startup? Guides? I have a SOHC. Ive always had it, but today I *think* I heard it rattling a bit at idle.

Re: (Chaotic_Warlord)

brisknfade — 2005-04-26T00:42:49-08:00

So today I decided to try this out after getting my valve cover gasket from autozone. I pulled off the valve cover and i saw that the timing chain was gone... The bolts were still there though. I guess the previous owner must of had them removed at the dealership or something. But then i immediately thought to myself "Why did i still hear that ticking noise???"

I looked at the valve cover and saw that the chain must of been hitting that instead. It had noticeable marks. So tomorrow im going to try and see if the guides are gunked up or not. Hopefully that's the problem.

EDIT:

EEEK! Upon further inspection, it looked like i actually had the guide CRACK OFF in there. Amazingly nothing happend. Must have happened some time back. Engine still feels nice and peppy and pulls pretty hard. Yay.

Modified by brisknfade at 8:13 PM 4/26/2005

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

Chaotic_Warlord — 2005-04-25T15:40:40-08:00

I can't really tell because it only happens when I am driving down the road, if I have it park and rev my engine it doesn't make the sound. Like I stated before, it only does it sometimes and thats usually only when I go up an incline. Having said that I am wondering if its the gears in my slushbox, but I've driven automatics before and have even burned through a couple auto tranny's before and it never sounded like this. Hopefully I'll get a nice weekend the same time I have the money for parts to replace the gaskets on my valve cover so I'll take the chain guides out then.

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-04-25T09:47:28-08:00

I bet its the guides as you go faster, higher the rev and faster the chain spins...

Where is the rattling coming from? obviously if its coming from the front then its the guides

Re: (yoozef)

Chaotic_Warlord — 2005-04-22T22:45:13-08:00

I have the sound and I know its my guides, will remove them one of these weekends when it's not raining and my buddy is over. My question is this, when I am sitting at idle I can hear it (marbles in a can) in the area of the top guide, but I can really hear it when I am driving, especially if I push lightly on the gas to go up a hill or incline. I used to have a similar noise in my 84 Olds Cutlass Supreme but that noise was the Catalytic Converter. Would this noise I'm hearing while driving down the road be the timing chain guides or the cat. ? It's really loud from like 10mph up to around 40 mph, between the rattling and the bad rear wheel hub (and now my brakes are starting to squeal) my car is just plain out noisy. I just need some free time some spare hands and some extra cash to do so serious maintenance.

yoozef — 2005-04-15T15:56:12-08:00

good write up

Re: (xterra+hardbody)

sanioll — 2005-04-07T11:58:26-08:00

Quote, originally posted by xterra+hardbody raquo;

Anyone got a sound clip of it?

yes, but its on the hard drive on PC downstairs and ummmm... i'm 50 miles away from home. I'll post it if i can find it.

xterra+hardbody — 2005-04-06T17:52:23-08:00

Update:

I had the oil changed today and afterwards it sounds so much worse than it did before I put the seafoam in. The two places that I took it today didn't have an oil presssure gauge to test it with. I would have gotten my own gauge today and done it but I have no clue where to put it. The 2 parts stores that I went to didn't have manuals for a 97 nissan hardbody. I wish I knew exactly what the timing chain issue sounds like. I am in an apartment and its against the rules to work on a vehicle so I would have to pay some one to do it. Would hate to spend that kind of cash on something so easy to fix.....

Anyone got a sound clip of it?

Re: HOW-TO: Fix Your Timing Chain Rattle (ILikeMy240sx)

4felix20 — 2005-04-06T15:35:17-08:00

this little knob here...mine turns a little.

Modified by 4felix20 at 12:07 AM 4/8/2005

xterra+hardbody — 2005-04-06T10:32:29-08:00

Well I put the seafoam in. It sounds a little better, but I still have this very violent noise when the engine starts fter it has been sitting for a while.

The noise is like two pieces of aluminum banging together hard.

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-04-04T19:16:08-08:00

Im not sure what you mean by a knob... do you have a picture or where its located on the dist?

4felix20 — 2005-04-04T18:15:05-08:00

do you guys know what that little knob is for on the distributor cap? it's like a teardrop shaped turnable knob...

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-04-04T16:45:03-08:00

Yes theoretically it would work... That depends on how gunked up it is tho.. Honestly, when I cleaned my tensioner they were stuck pretty hard I doubt it would have been solved with seafoam. Besides, those guides do not belong there anyways... Might as well as remove it.

Like ive said before you have to make sure your oil pressure is good before you do anything... Regardless of your tensioners condition if your oil pressure is bad tensioner wont do its job

Re: HOW-TO: Fix Your Timing Chain Rattle (ILikeMy240sx)

xterra+hardbody — 2005-04-03T14:28:54-08:00

This may be a silly question, but if you are having this issue due to the fact that your tensioners are gunked up, wouldn't pouring something like sea foam into th ecrank case solve the issue? I am a complete newb at working on cars, but it seems logical to me. If oil moves past the tensioners so would the sea foam. If my understanding is incorrect please let me know.

I currently have a 97 hardbody with the symptoms described. Loud rattle on start, quiter rattle while idle. I plan on putting a bit of sea foam in the crank case today to see if it helps.

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-04-03T14:09:18-08:00

It would be nice if you can list the differences in S13s that I did not mention in the write up so that people can be aware of it.

Thanx!

ArcherV20 — 2005-04-02T23:37:39-08:00

Did it today and the S13 has a few little differences, but nothing that should stop any process, great write up and thanks for the answer to that stupid noise my engine was making!

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

AsanBBoy — 2005-03-29T11:42:36-08:00

nervermind i figured everything out.

Modified by AsanBBoy at 3:32 PM 3/29/2005

AsanBBoy — 2005-03-29T11:32:01-08:00

uh i think i'm in trouble. i'm stuck at number 6. Something is wrong. I'm a toatal noob on this. I can't move the tensioner at all, but there is slack at the top. Also my cam lobes for the first cylinder is facing each other .

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-25T17:14:42-08:00

No... you can try it and see for your self... which way retards and advances. I wouldnt write a how to and not do it my self and just post it.

I used to think otherwise but when I actally did the timing job my self I figured out that the picture shown is the correct way.

Re: (Silverbullet91)

jgtc_s14 — 2005-03-25T10:19:52-08:00

Quote, originally posted by Silverbullet91 raquo;

Is the picture above showing which way to rotate the distributor for advancing/retarding correct? I thought that the rotor button turned clockwise and therefore turning the distributor clockwise would retard the ignition and counter-clockwise would advance the igniton. Am I wrong? Somebody please correct me.

thats what i thought too????????

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

EstoMax — 2005-03-24T23:58:08-08:00

i just did this today.. was expecting it to be a lot harder thats all i gotta say lol

i also degreased and cleaned the crap out of the front cover and valve cover so its nice and shiny-ish now

gonna double check timing tmrw i started it up for a few sec and it ran fine so thats good haha

max

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-24T10:33:08-08:00

you have to get a 27mm socket.. Its pretty damn big and use that to turn your crank pulley(pulley with notches on it) clockwise. The crank pulley has a huge bolt in the middle that you can use to turn it.

Its alot easier if you use a breaker bar but you can use things like torque wrenches as well. Its not that hard to crank the engine.

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

sanioll — 2005-03-23T21:16:41-08:00

how do you turn the engine to align it??

do you use a 1/2 breaker bar? if you do, where does that bar go to turn the engine??

sorry, i'm an idiot when it comes to engine stuff.

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-22T19:56:05-08:00

If you align the notches on the crank pulley as shown in the picture, it will be TDC at compression stroke. Also when you take your valve cover off and you see the cam lobes for the 1st cylinder is facing directly opposite to each other that is TDC compression

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

sanioll — 2005-03-22T19:27:03-08:00

sow how do youj know that TDC is at compression stroke? Do you start and stop the engine until its aligned??

^--blonde/redneck style --^

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-21T18:40:09-08:00

TDC - top dead center. When the piston is at the highest point.

Compression stroke - This is the stroke of the piston that compresses the fuel and air mixture before cumbustion.

TDC at compression stroke. The highest point of piston when its compressing the fuel and air mixture. So TDC at exhaust stroke would be the highest point of piston when its letting the exhaust out of the cylinder.

Hope this helped. If you have any questions feel free to email me or im me or post here.

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

sanioll — 2005-03-21T17:48:30-08:00

see i'm still a virgin when it comes to engines, set tdc at compression stroke, etc... i donno what that even means. so i gotta look into FSM more and learn a bit more to get more comfortable doing it

i'll just remove the top guide for now, also my valve cover is leaking since i switched to mobil 1. so i gotta take it out, probabbly replace the gasket and apply some seal.

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-21T16:37:47-08:00

You can just remove the top guide but alot of people have reported that even with the top one removed, they still hear slight ticking and trust me most of them regret that they didnt remove the #2 guide while they were removing the #1...
As seen in the picture above, its clear that #2 guide also has wear on it. Sooner or later depending on the condidion of the tensioner, that wear is going to get bigger and bigger until the guide snaps, falls into the front cover and breaks the chain and kaboom (worst case scenario)... I suggest you remove the side guide while you are at it.

BTW, the chains are hitting the guides because the chain is loose. So be sure to clean and check the condition of the tensioner instead of just removing the guides. You can do this for both bottom and top tensioner with the camshaft sprocket cover off so go ahead and do the entire job while you are at it

Re: (240sx2nr)

sanioll — 2005-03-21T00:11:58-08:00

god, this is a great write up, you relieved so much from my shoulders.

So thats where the noise is coming from. its simply the guides.

youre a genious!

i'm simply not going that deep, i have to look into FSM learn at bit more about the engine before going that deep.

But, can I just remove the top guide and leave the bottom guide inside?

I think on mine its only the top guide making that noise. I hope its okay to remove only one. this doesn't cause any kind of looseness in the chain does it?

Modified by sanioll at 3:48 AM 3/21/2005

240sx2nr — 2005-03-20T02:39:29-08:00

dope write up.... imma for sure do this on my zenki cause the tick is super annoying

nismofly — 2005-03-19T22:08:23-08:00

somebody do this for the SOHC!!

not going to be me either lol...im waiting for it so i can do it myself

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-19T16:35:14-08:00

your oil pressure is low when something is wrong for example oil pump, oil filter and maybe the oil pick up in the oil pan, or something is blocking the passage...

You can go to sites like midwaypartsteam or nissanparts and search for timing tensioner for your car and it will give you the part #

Tsukai240 — 2005-03-19T14:17:54-08:00

once again thanks for the great write up. 2 questions:
how do you incerase your oil preasure
what are the part numbers on the new tensioners

my timing chain is sooo loose i'm having very noticeable timing drift. (oh and its fugging NOISEY)

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-18T19:32:56-08:00

Nope, the way I have it in the picture is correct. I originally thought the same thing but it turned out that I was wrong.

Re: (jgtc_s14)

Silverbullet91 — 2005-03-18T06:39:02-08:00

jgtc_s14 — 2005-03-14T15:38:08-08:00

thanks very very useful

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-08T20:27:05-08:00

1. After you put everything back together... you have to make sure that your timing is correct because you are taking off and putting on the distributor which adjusts the timing. If you make a mark on the mount/rotor I described and you did not rotate the engine then you probably won't need it but its always good to check.

2. Yes the front cover must be taken off which is a long process and a PITA procedure if your engine is in the car from what I hear... BTW, you can still see and play with the lower tensioner with only the camshaft sprocket cover off.

Re: (ILikeMy240sx)

Zyphar — 2005-03-08T20:24:05-08:00

very nice how-to! very informative and visual!

just 2 quick questions...

1. You stated that you needed a timing light. In what step do u use it ? or did you not use it at all?

2. In order to reach the lower tensioner and guides another cover must be taken off correct ?

ILikeMy240sx — 2005-03-07T16:57:36-08:00

Yes you are right the bottom block is iron but the head is Aluminum.

edit: WTF I said block is alum in the write-up lol fixed. thanx for the correction.

gabossie — 2005-03-07T16:10:04-08:00

Very nice write up. Only one little mistake, the KA block is iron, not alluminum