Worlds First 5-Speed Stickshift Q45.

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jimbyjimb
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When's the blower coming? Good work.


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elwesso
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thanks for all the comments guys!!!!
PBfrEAk wrote:Wow...beautiful.

Now do you have a thread with pics of the swap itself yet? I'd love to see those.

What Tranny did you mate to the VH? I assume this was a custom adapter plate...but was it fabbed up by you or someone else?

If there is another thread with this stuff lemme know haha...I didn't even know you were doing this!!
About all the pics I have are the ones I posted, theres really not much to it we pretty much bolted everything together. Plate was made by me (im going to do another run soon).. Using a Z32 N/A transmission..

ended up using a Z32 brake pedal and a pathfinder clutch pedal. Used the pathy pedal because it juts way farther over than the Z32 pedal, so only minor mods were needed.. Put the pathfinder pedal arm into the Z32 pedal bracket (since I already had a Z32 pedal assembly with the master cylinder and holes drilled for the Z32 pedal)

Z32 on the left, pathfinder on the right


BadQ45t wrote:Post up another video in the daylight just showing the install of the shifter, that alone will get me up to youtube..just to see that stick where the slushbox shifer normally sits.
Give me a couple weeks to finish the shifter, it looks pretty jacked up right now, just because im still working out some minor wiring things to get the cruise and the drive positioner to work.. Also, the Z32 shifter arm is way too short for the Q so a custom one woudl need to be made (the shifter arm needs to be able 4inches longer to sit flush with the trim)
mcheddadi wrote:
AWESOME! 1/4 and 0-60 estimates?
Ill rock your M5, how's that sound? 0-60 and 1/4 mile times may be skewed since I dont like powershifting manual trannies... Ill post more videos once I have the correct speedo gear in...
qsiguy wrote:Congrats Wes. Looks like fun.

Questions:Do you have a bill of materials yet?

What's the estimated total cost to this point?

How much does your installer want to do it again or what would he estimate a typical shop would charge to do this job if parts were supplied by the owner?
I dont know what the final damage is going to be, all I know is I paid way less than it would have cost me to screw around with the AT.. Even though my level 10 trans still shifted fine, it was in sorry shape..

I have all my receipts and if you're interested, I'll email them to you. Im not going to post up what I paid for this swap because I paid WAYYYYYY less than this guy would ever dream about doing it for again..

Also, the money is not really a big issue as far as the parts go, the labor to get this done right is astronomical. I'll let JP chime in to how much time he put into this, but I'd wager close to 100 hours over the course of 2 weeks, maybe more? I figure Im going to put another 4-6 hours into making everything perfect with the shifter and wiring.. Figure how much time an average shop takes to do a 5 speed swap on a Z32 and double or triple the amount of time because so many things have to be custom fabricated.

JP did an absolutely fabulous job with fabricating everything... I told him to not worry about shifter console and wiring because I can do that stuff myself, and I was antsy to get the car back!!! ..

Heres the bottom line, and I know JP would agree with me. This swap cannot be done by anyone and your typical shop will not have the skills or patience to do this..

Id say if you wanted to do this, plan on it costing anywhere from 3000-5000.
maxnix wrote:I do wonder with collapse original mototrmounts and an addtional 1" deflection on the 3rd motor (transmission) mount how long the U joint on the driveshft will last? Wonder if the OEM coupling might have been better?

This is precisely the samce reason FWD cars use CV adn not U joints on the half shafts. Greater deflection there, but principal is still the same. maybe the only way to do it right is to cut and weld a larger cavity into the transmission tunnel to maintain correct alignment?
Motor mounts were in good shape, and have about 6 years, 60k miles on them, along with the trans mount..

I anticipate the U joints to be fine, not to mention mine are rebuildable 1310 U joints unlike the factory. Ive had an aftermarket driveshaft on my car for the last 3 years or so, and it had that front U joint instead of the flex coupling. my driveshaft was done by powertrain industries (but lengthened by a local shop for the swap)

From what I understand its desirable to have a little bit of angle in the driveshaft because it keeps the U joints lubricated..

Like I said before, this isnt for everyone!!!

Keith, I still have the 3.54 gear in my car.

ALSO, note that I havent even began to think about installing an E brake!!!

Johnny Rocket
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: 3.2142: 1.195>>>>>This cant be correct3: 1.3024: 1.0005: 0.752

Wes installed more gear in his car via the trans....11.36 Starting ratio

Anytime you get lose to 12 to 1 thats about optimum for a street car.

I forgot his first geat for the auto? about 2.50? If so

he had about 8.85 ratio before....

thats numerically not exact because the torque convertor does mutiply gear as well.

My Q has a numeric ratio of around 12 to 1.....4.37 times the 2.75 first gear so Wes is not far off from this gar ratio.

He said it felt fast...........same ting I have been saying........these cars need gear and although he did not do it in the rear he did it in the trans which is even better because he still has a good highway gear.

As far as the ujoints are concerned I would not be concerned about them unless there is a vbration........drive it and enjoy it.......I might be inclined to check the angles with an angle finder from stock atutomatic to the stick juts to see what you did...

The 1310 joint although not the gorrila joint a 1350 series is its more than needed for these little engines.

They are self lubricating so I am not sure what the angle has to do with anything...


Johnny Rocket
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I personally would not want to tackle this job but the guy that did most of the work must be a glutton for punishment!

Good job and I hope you dont have any wheel hop...thats going to be interesting and after you work out the bugs I would be curious about speedshifting and how that works out.

Also I would be up for a drag race at the local drag strip...be interesting comparison with both cars having the same starting line advantage

Good job guys and I hope yo enjoy it!

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elwesso
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I think with the U joints if you have an angle and the U joints move around a little more they will tend to avoid getting "notchy".

I have a little vibration I need to get rid of, i think shimming the carrier bearing should take care of it.

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Infinitiguy19
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If you had too, would you ever drive auto. Q45 again?

But thanks for making me do one more thing to my car (add a 5 speed) or at least a double clutch tranny or paddle shifters with the TCU that goes to it.

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Peterofdevon
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way to go wes!

you are THE man!

P.

Ludeaem
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More video! That is sweet! Im surprised maxnix hasn't commented on the oil leaks on the under carriage haha. "you need to get all new seals"

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elwesso
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actually most of the oil down there was residual from a leaky dipstick which is now fixed. My HICAS solenoid/PS rack leaks a little.

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Jesda
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While there aren't many hills in Indiana, how do you manage hills without a hand-operated parking brake? The first-generation CTS had a manual transmission that a lot of people skipped because it had a foot parking brake like the Q.

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elwesso
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its not that bad, clutch engagement is pretty smooth and I am good at heel-toeing it.

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Q451990
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Funny... I never noticed the handbrake / MT correlation! I guess in extremely hilly areas people who aren't skilled at modulating the clutch on a hill use the handbrake to prevent rolling backwards until the clutch catches?

I've never even thought of using the E-brake on my truck during driving - but it's an interesting idea.

Heath

Ludeaem
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oh s*** i forgot you're in indiana! i want to ride in this beast! You ever in Indy much?

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elwesso
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yeah next time i'm in anderson i'll let you know.

sishinthin
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I've got a record, that this post is messing up, I believe I held the lowest post-per day average (.02) of anybody on this site ever. Been a member forever. I'll admit the dipstick thing was my bad, but you're all good now, driving soft steel swedged in/out of even softer aluminum is not so fun. Bought a multi-position prybar so that won't be a problem anymore.

I'm working up numbers now on how much it's gonna cost for me to do it again. Most of it is just gathering the piles of parts that I had to measure out for the fit, for this swap I didn't think it would be a big deal to get the tranny for Wes, turned out to be a big hassel. Not Wes's fault but if someone was interested in hunting down the list of parts, and buying the adapterplate and special bolts from wes, I could actually get it down pretty quick and relitivly affordable. Lord knows I'd rather be doing fab/custom work any day than working on the other rusty junk that comes around here anymore because everyone in michigan's uber-broke. But it's a big laundry-list of parts.

I did do this job for wes at a discount, but I've known him along time and was pretty sure he wasn't going to screw me over, and feel we were helping each other out. I needed to pay bills, he wanted a kick-azz ride. Done deal.

If people have questions about prices, AIM me. Otherwise post your questions about this swap here so I don't have to answer the same questions repeatedly, and so the other people can see. I've done all kinds of swaps and I'll make anything you can dream.I've got some luny nissan projects I'd like to build for a lucky someone (with money) at a Wes-like discount.

Thanks for the compliments by the way, and this took me around 142 hrs in two weeks including the parts chasing, but not including going to class. Got a little outta-it near the end, but it's done now. Here's pictures of the build, they're in there, just scroll down:http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s143/sishinthin/

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MinisterofDOOM
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You know, the more thought I give this, the more appealing it looks. Not only would I get rid of the crappy auto AND get to enjoy rowing the gears myself but, looking at those ratios, 85mph cruise would put me at about 2300rpm vs the 3100 it turns at now. With more gear options, direct control, better performance AND better fuel economy, I don't think I can go wrong here. I just have to find a local shop I trust to do the job.
Johnny Rocket wrote:: 3.2142: 1.195>>>>>This cant be correct3: 1.3024: 1.0005: 0.752
You're right, it was a typo. It's really 1.925. Post has been fixed.
Jesda wrote:While there aren't many hills in Indiana, how do you manage hills without a hand-operated parking brake? The first-generation CTS had a manual transmission that a lot of people skipped because it had a foot parking brake like the Q.
That seems nonsensical to me. Hand-operated park brakes are a relatively new thing. People got by just fine in the decades before handbrakes when manual transmissions were the ubiquitous drivetrain format.The people who avoided the CTS for that reason are probably the same dipoars I see smoldering their clutches at stoplights by rocking back and forth incessantly throughout the duration of the red. Learn to drive or go buy a Camry.

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Jesda
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The people who avoided the CTS for that reason are probably the same dipoars I see smoldering their clutches at stoplights by rocking back and forth incessantly throughout the duration of the red. Learn to drive or go buy a Camry.[/quote]The people who can drive who preferred a manual but wanted a sporty luxury sedan simply purchased a BMW or Infiniti G. The 6MT G37 moves the parking brake from the foot area to a center console handle.

Anyway, it seems the VH45 has enough low-end power to take off easily. I do like Nissan clutches!

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jimbyjimb
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That may be true but if you've ever seen downtown Seattle, or almost any city in western Washington, you'll understand Jesda's point. It's almost suicide here to attempt driving a stick in heavy downtown traffic without a handbrake. This is an unfriendly territory for clutches.

sishinthin
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What kinda e-brake would be the popular choice?

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elwesso
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i think i want to try and put one by the seat (kinda jaguar style), so i dont lose the OEM center console.

maxnix
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MinisterofDOOM wrote:Hand-operated park brakes are a relatively new thing. People got by just fine in the decades before handbrakes when manual transmissions were the ubiquitous drivetrain format.
That would be before the thirties then.

Virtually all European cars had them from the late forties on.
Modified by maxnix at 7:21 AM 3/17/2009

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MinisterofDOOM
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Of course I meant before they were as common as they are today. Up until the 1980s, most American cars didn't have handbrakes to my knowledge.
jimbyjimb wrote:That may be true but if you've ever seen downtown Seattle, or almost any city in western Washington, you'll understand Jesda's point. It's almost suicide here to attempt driving a stick in heavy downtown traffic without a handbrake. This is an unfriendly territory for clutches.
Heh, I live on a mountain. I drove a manual 2wd pickup for years, including delivering pizza all over the mountain for about a year...though all extremes of weather. I was just fine with a foot-operated e-brake.

Honestly, one of the first things I realized when I started driving the Q after the Maxima was just how much more I prefer foot brakes to hand brakes. I never noticed in my Caddy or Ford because they both had bench seats, but with a center console that's free of a brake handle, the benefits are clear to me.
sishinthin wrote:What kinda e-brake would be the popular choice?
One type to consider if getting rid of the e-brake pedal is most convenient is the pistol-grip style e-brakes like you find in 90s Toyota and Nissan pickups. I really like that style as well. It's still out of the way of the center console but also out of the way of the clutch pedal.I can't find any pictures to show what I'm talking about, unfortunately.

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Jesda wrote:like throwing the rear around in the snow
Ahh... snow! I forgot about that. We just stay home the one or two days a year it happens around here
MinisterofDOOM wrote:One type to consider if getting rid of the e-brake pedal is most convenient is the pistol-grip style e-brakes like you find in 90s Toyota and Nissan pickups.
I'll try to get a picture for you today - my truck has one.

Heath

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dusred
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Jesda wrote:While there aren't many hills in Indiana, how do you manage hills without a hand-operated parking brake? The first-generation CTS had a manual transmission that a lot of people skipped because it had a foot parking brake like the Q.
Solution: Diesel Power.

Just kidding.

The hand break might be nice if you live where me and Chris do (in the Rockies) but if you know what you're doing I don't think it would be that big of a deal driving without one.

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Raxephon
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MinisterofDOOM wrote:
One type to consider if getting rid of the e-brake pedal is most convenient is the pistol-grip style e-brakes like you find in 90s Toyota and Nissan pickups. I really like that style as well. It's still out of the way of the center console but also out of the way of the clutch pedal.I can't find any pictures to show what I'm talking about, unfortunately.
Is this it?




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jimbyjimb
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You live on a mountain but I live in the most heavily populated area in the NW with some of the heaviest traffic congestion in the nation. Top that off with an extremely hilly city that used to be water front that was filled in from yet another long, steep hill, add in the constant wet roads that offer little forgiveness in the traction department, azzhole drivers and pedestrians that don't use crosswalks or obey stoplights, one way streets everywhere and stoplights at every single intersection and you'll see soon enough the extreme relief that comes with having a handbrake when on a radical incline at a light and a d!ck 4 inches off the rear bumper, and the d!ck behind him and the d!ck behind him, etc... Any roll back whatsoever and you've just been the cause of a multi car collision. Utah is sparse compared to the over 3 million people in the greater Seattle area and 600,000 in the city limits. There are less than 3 million people in the whole state of Utah. Drivers in Utah are probably alot more respectful and intelligent. Your mountain is quite unabashedly differentiated from one of the largest metropolitian areas in the country, and by far the largest in the NW region. Only larger areas on the west coast are CA.

Johnny Rocket
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Why cant you use a centering brake handle that are in millions of cars?..the handle down on the side looks like something from the fifties or forties

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These guys talking about "never needing an e-brake" are confused, or haven't driven in inclement weather or in hilly areas.

Hell, a steep inclined exit from a parking lot can be enough to make it a PITA.

Rax, he means the t-handled brake on the right side of the steering wheel (beneath the ignition) like most Hardbody pickups had.

Wes, get the handbrake squared away... it'll be worth it.

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elwesso
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I find it amusing how the topic of discussion is about a manual transmission mated to a VH45 in a Q45 and all we can talk about is E-brakes?

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Q451990
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elwesso wrote:I find it amusing how the topic of discussion is about a manual transmission mated to a VH45 in a Q45 and all we can talk about is E-brakes?
That is true. Maybe we're still in shock!


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