This thread is mainly focused on Gen-4 and 5ers, but I think anyone could chime in on this...

I'm well aware that the automotive press never really lauded the 4th and 5th generation Maxima's handling skills. IIRC they thought it did ok in the twisties, but could have used some improvement. By the '03 model year, they called the Max's suspension a bit long in the tooth. Must be Nissan took them literally when putting a long tooth on the grill of the '04, lol.

So, let's say you tear your suspension apart, replace all rod ends with the highest-quality, reinforced units you can get your hands on, you replace all suspension related bushings with polys, and you throw on some ~1.0" to 1.5" springs... oh and a set of struts like Illuminas, HP's or KYB GR-2's.

With this done and the car ready to roll, what would an automotive press guy think of the ride? How far would the bar be raised?

What would this car now handle like?

Better than a Lexus ES? Acura RL/TL? Can it touch a Mercedes? How bout VW, Volvo and Saab? Mazda 6?

Of course this proposed scenario would place the Maxima in good light vs any current domestic vehicles (new Malibu, Fusion, I think the Avenger doesn't need to be mentioned from what I've heard, bleh) as well, right?

Personally, I want my stock (with FSTB) GLE to handle just like it does now. Feels to me like a driver's car, but I think I'm biased a bit funny because I drove 4 Chevy Luminas and a damn Neon over the last 10 years. I haven't much experience in the handling aspects of current cars, case in point is the fact that I think my mother's 2000 v6 Sebring Coupe with 17's (Eclipse) handled great.

But I'm really salivating over what's gonna happen to my GXE... I'm gonna give the suspension componentry a once, over, replace any needed bushings with poly units, make sure my wheel bearings etc are fine... and then I'll put on my vogtlands and KYB GR-2's... and an FSTB.

(350z 17's, 235/50/17's, Megan Racing cat back, amp, subs will also be installed at the same time... I'll tint my tails as well...)

So BOOM, the GXE will no longer be rolling with a clangy broken OEM exhaust, absolutely cheap and shot struts and springs, and a crap wheel bearing and pooped bushings.

Will I then think that the GLE handles like crap after these mods?

I like to think of the GLE as the quiet one, with the light tan leather interior and sunroof... sunny disposition, sorta soft ride... comfortable comfortable comfortable.

.. And I have a feeling that my GXE will display a completely different temperament. Will I become prone to chasing IS-300's and the occasional 5-series on the twists and turns? Or should I keep my sights set lower?

It's like these cars are teaching me to drive all over again... as if all these years I was just commuting, never appreciating the metal around and under me (appreciating a Lumina, LOL!!!!1)... and now I think I have two specimens of a driver's car.

The Maxima is a driver's car, right? It's no Camry, it's no Accord, Taurus or Malibu.

I've heard of Maximas pwning some unlikely competitors in autocross events...

...

How about some feedback on this? What are we supposed to be shooting for?

sixteenXnine wrote:What would this car now handle like?

Better than a Lexus ES? Acura RL/TL? Can it touch a Mercedes? How bout VW, Volvo and Saab? Mazda 6?

That's a pretty widely varied degree of benchmarks. Some of them are definitely not what I would consider handling benchmark material.

The Maxima's certainly a driver's car. It talks to the driver and is a driving experience you are a part of, rather than a transportation device you are anaesthetised to.

And yes, the Maxima (even the 6th gen) is pretty light compared to much of it's competition. The 6th gen weighs ~3300lb. That's less than some COMPACTS.

The biggest problem (which 4th and 5th gen guys may argue) is that the 4th and 5th gen Maxima have solid axles. There's really no reason to do that on a FWD sedan other than cost. It was a very bad decision on Nissan's part in my opinion.Granted, you can still do a lot with it, and for what it has to work with the Maxima can be impressive. But I just can't wrap my head around the fact that Nissan didn't AT LEAST go with a strut setup in the rear like with the third gen. I almost understand their strategy with the 4th gen (keep the new model price on par with the outgoing model price--which can be hard). But the 5th gen had no excuse.

Replacing suspension rubber and other potential wear or fatigue components can definitely make a difference.Your intentions look good to me: replace/upgrade rubber, make sure everything else is as-new, then upgrade springs, shocks, and add strut bar. A rear sway bar will help as well. All combined, you'll probably end up with a much more neutral-feeling car.

Thanks for the reply, MoD.

I understand that I gave a wide range of handling "benchmarks"... it was all in an effort to put out some feelers as to "what league these cars sit in when their suspensions are optimized properly".

Now regarding a rear sway bar... both of my '00's (GLE and GXE) have these... they may be a different diameter though, I'm not sure, as it's hard to really get to them. Reinstalling it with poly busings will probably help, but is there also an aftermarket option? AND... is a rear shock/strut tower brace counterproductive in a rear solid-axled Maxima? Or will it further help the sway bar?

first of, you're awesome for focusing on the suspension first!! KUDOS!!

i installed: EIBACH 1.3" front drop coilsEIBACH 1.0" rear drop coilsFront TOKICO blue Gas StrutsRear TOKICO 5-way adjustable Illuminas new front right hubstrut bumpstops all aroundfront strut insulator capsfront strut tower (still need the rear)front and rear sway bars...

...and my handling went thru the roof. I only wish that i went with the TOKICO 5-way adjustable struts in the front also b/c they are awesome in the rear i was wanting to get lower to the ground for a while, and swap everything out for Tein, but i decided that it's not worth it, pssshh. I am actually wanting to replace the steering unit with a custom aluminum or stainless hydraulic system from HOWE steering b/c mine doesn't feel as responsive as i'd like it to be

BTW....after you get your suspension, exhaust, and tinted tails( zerothread?id=360928 ), and stereo system all done...focus on your brake system. IT IS VITAL that with all the new "FUN" you have in your car that you equip it to be able to stop when you need it. I would like to recommend a BREMBO or STILLEN 13" 1 piece slotted and drilled rotors with 4 piston oversized aluminum calipers( http://www.stillen.com/product...AXIMA )!!

The rear solid axle isn't the BEST, but it works well. it NEEDS a swaybar and struts before you get the rear strut tower. It would be nice to have the wheels the same distance from the fender on both sides of the car in the rear, but b/c of the system design it draws closer on the passenger side by about 6mm...this sucks when I like things PERFECT, but cant do anything about that accept add an extra 5mm spacer on the driver side, but that would be stupid.

HAVE AT IT

Well, the offset difference in my 350Z rims front to rear is gonna level things out profile-wise...

Am I missing something regarding the swaybar? Does the stock unit "not count" due to flimsiness?

..and Insulator caps? What are they needed for and where can I get some?

Thanks lightsout.

i have the Rays Engineering NISMO Rims(18x8.5 front & 18x9.5 rear) on my Max, they were designed for the 350z, with a 25mm front offset and 30mm in the rear. . the rear left is 5-6mm in farther than the right, you cant fix that unless you use a spacer on the left side, or cut and elongate the axle on the left but then you've opened a whole new problem with the suspension.

the stock sway bar is good, i just prefer a stiffer front end.

the insulator caps are what your strut are bolted into under the hood...they look like this:

if they arent bad, don't replace them

this is the rear right side before i needed to flare the fenders a bit and cut off the bumper flange on the inside to tuck them without rubbing.

I don't think I have any right to left difference in offset on my 350z rims, which are the (17x7.5 +30 17x8 +33) base model units...



I've delved into discussions about the Vogtland/GR2 combo, and at this point I'm pretty sure that I can run this 1.4/1.4 drop with these rims and still run 235/50 series rubber without having to cut bumpstops.

My insulator caps are fine, so no worries there.

I'm gonna get a control arm bushing kit, and might grab a Blehmco stage I tie bar as well. The stage II seems nice but I don't wanna slap down $175 for it at this point. Maybe next year I'll put the stage I on the stock-and-happy GLE, and put the stage II on my GLE.

Oh, and while we're at it...

I don't have a long-term relationship with any garage in my new-ish (2 years) home town...

Canandaigua NY has about 15,000 people, is a fairly well-off wine/tourist town, and most of the people with nice houses drive new GMC Acadias and new Camrys.

There are a couple dealerships around, but nothing Nissan. There's this one garage (it always looks busy, the 5 bays are usually pretty full) that advertises that it works on imports... so I stopped there yesterday to discuss my plans for the GLE (alignment, tires) and the GXE (front suspension fix/control arm bushings/non-stock struts and springs/exhaust...

... The labor rate is $70 an hour, but I was told that for non-stock work, it's $105 an hour. The guy spoke with a bit of apprehension about installing non-stock stuff, to which I replied "well, I've seen quite a few good-looking non-stock cars roll out of here, and I don't see many other non-stock rides rolling out of other garages around here". Point being that I think this is the only choice in my area for custom work, except for the exhaust which I can have done for a flat rate by the local Midas or Monroe for $125.

So I'm pretty sure that I'm not gonna do these struts/mods myself. With that said:

Should I expect these guys to whine about camber or caster at all when doing the 1.4"/1.4" drop with the Vogtland springs?

They'll be aligning it, and I'm sure that with it not being stock that some sort of question mark is going to come up. If I can "warn" these guys (or rather, explain a non-time-intensive way to know) about what to do and look out for then maybe I can alleviate some "non-oem mechanic's fear" and keep the labor rate down, while keeping the shop aware that I know what I need out of this suspension upgrade.

I don't know squat about camber/caster on these cars, and don't know what the drop will do to this crucial suspension attribute. Any further info would be appreciated.

So I take it that running a 1.4/1.4 drop will not cause me any camber/caster problems and that the alignment process will be straightforward?

:p

.. and I've seen a few pics of Maximas at auto-x's... what cars do they end up racing against? .. um, they pwn the competition, right? .. ya know, with that "rwd-like" tubular rear axle? In all seriousness though, these road-race-setup Maximas, um.. obviously they must handle "all right" if not "great"... right?

Any amount of lowering causes suspension screw ups that cannot be totally corrected with camber kits*, as lowering changes the ANGLE of the mount points to arms changing the camber gain curves, caster curves, and bump steer [toe] curves.

* Camber kits just make the static numbers LOOK RIGHT to the uninformed sitting still, not the real life as the body rolls gain curves.

Tires and the weight on them are 90% of handling and PROFESSIONAL suspension changes are lucky to improve things 1,2,2.5%.

I appreciate the input, Q45tech.

What you're saying makes all drops sound bad, though! .. and I don't hear that much whining and complaining about tire and ball joint wear from the H&R/Progressive/Vogtland using crowd (or anyone doing a 1-1.75" drop).

And then you say that basically a camber kit is pointless? Hmm... At what point at least do folks around here with maximas and dropped suspensions use a camber kit? For what it's worth I'm going down 1.4/1.4.

And regarding your "tires and weight" comment... well I've never heard that before... Do you have any more information for me about that (care to qualify that statement)? :p