Hello folks. I've got a pretty cool '71 Triumph 2000 but it's a bit lacking in the go department. Popular opinion/common sense would dictate that a Rover V8 is the way to go but I like the idea of taking the best of both worlds - that is, the look and feel of the 70s with modern performance/efficiency/reliability (latter's not a big one, the Triumph Six is pretty much bulletproof). I've been pondering using a modern japanese 6 cylinder motor because they're readily available and can potentially make as much power as my Triumph's chassis could realistically handle. So far the VG30DE looks the most promising because in N/A form they cost next to nothing to buy, make decent power stock and once the car's set up for it there's always the possibility of dropping a VG30DETT in at a later date. The one thing I can't find though is dimensions for an N/A motor to see if it will fit. One site I found stated 710mm long x 775mm wide with all ancillaries and turbos, but didn't give an N/A figure.
For now I will leave some measurements of my own I've taken of the car, it's approximately 700mm between the suspension turrets and the current straight 6 is approx. 740mm long.
This is really just for a fun street car with enough power to merge safely and annoy skyline owners, if it doesn't turn out to be realistically viable then I'll abandon the idea and look for an alternative.
Cheers, looking forward to your reply.
Viability of stuffing a VG30DE into my Triumph?
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AZhitman
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Re: Viability of stuffing a VG30DE into my Triumph?
LOVE the idea!
I have a buddy with a VG in a Datsun 510 (Bluebird to you). Let me get him in here for some feedback.
Welcome aboard, CHEERS!
p.s. How about some pics of the fleet?
I have a buddy with a VG in a Datsun 510 (Bluebird to you). Let me get him in here for some feedback.
Welcome aboard, CHEERS!
p.s. How about some pics of the fleet?
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yellowdatsun
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- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:54 am
Re: Viability of stuffing a VG30DE into my Triumph?
So there's a LOT to think about here. I've had a VG30E (single cam) in my 510 for about a decade, maybe slightly longer. I've gone through a lot of different set ups with the motor.
The VG30DE is a HUGE engine. Very big. The DOHC heads and intake manifold take up a LOT of real estate. If you do a VG30DETT and add the twin turbo's, you'd better have a lot of room available. It's a big, and rather heavy, engine. There's a reason why there's only one VG30DETT 510 running around here in the US.....it's very complicated. He has been working out the kinks on his swap for 4 years. There's a VG30DE 510 running around as well, but even the non-turbo engine bay is stuffed. The VG30DE puts out 210 hp stock, and there's not much you can do with it unless you dump a pile of money into it. So if you have a LOT of room available, and are ok with the 210, than it's fine. Also remember that the VG30DE was only sold in one car, so finding parts is not super easy.
If you're open to ideas, check out the VG30E and VG33E. The VG30E was offered in probably 8 different vehicles, from the Quest minivan, to the 300ZX, to thePathfinder, and Maxima. As a result you have a pile of different intake and exhaust combinations to play with. If the first one doesn't fit your car, go to the junk yard and get a different one. The ECU's are also a lot easier to find. It's also much easier to find alternator brackets to fit your application, you can move them left to right, or whatever you want. With the DE motor you're stuck with the stock location. Different pulley setups are also available for the E motor, from single V belt, to 2 and 3 belt, all the way to the flat single belt on late model cars. They both make about 180hp stock. The reason the 33 makes the same hp is because of the cams and it was designed with dished pistons to make it a non-interference engine, the 30 engine is an interference engine. Throw some flat tops and Z cams in the 33 and you'd be nearly at DE power.
Now if you want turbo, you can get 300hp *easy* out of a VG30ET. They make so much power you can spin the tires in 5th on the freeway. I've been in a VG30ET powered 510 and it scared the crap out of me. So if it was me, I'd throw in a VG30E, get it all done, and then if you decide you want turbo someday just drop in a turbo block and call it done, all the mounts will already be done from the n/a version.
I'm in the process of building a VG34E engine for my 510, which will have more power than the DE motor, and be a lot smaller.
The VG30DE is a HUGE engine. Very big. The DOHC heads and intake manifold take up a LOT of real estate. If you do a VG30DETT and add the twin turbo's, you'd better have a lot of room available. It's a big, and rather heavy, engine. There's a reason why there's only one VG30DETT 510 running around here in the US.....it's very complicated. He has been working out the kinks on his swap for 4 years. There's a VG30DE 510 running around as well, but even the non-turbo engine bay is stuffed. The VG30DE puts out 210 hp stock, and there's not much you can do with it unless you dump a pile of money into it. So if you have a LOT of room available, and are ok with the 210, than it's fine. Also remember that the VG30DE was only sold in one car, so finding parts is not super easy.
If you're open to ideas, check out the VG30E and VG33E. The VG30E was offered in probably 8 different vehicles, from the Quest minivan, to the 300ZX, to thePathfinder, and Maxima. As a result you have a pile of different intake and exhaust combinations to play with. If the first one doesn't fit your car, go to the junk yard and get a different one. The ECU's are also a lot easier to find. It's also much easier to find alternator brackets to fit your application, you can move them left to right, or whatever you want. With the DE motor you're stuck with the stock location. Different pulley setups are also available for the E motor, from single V belt, to 2 and 3 belt, all the way to the flat single belt on late model cars. They both make about 180hp stock. The reason the 33 makes the same hp is because of the cams and it was designed with dished pistons to make it a non-interference engine, the 30 engine is an interference engine. Throw some flat tops and Z cams in the 33 and you'd be nearly at DE power.
Now if you want turbo, you can get 300hp *easy* out of a VG30ET. They make so much power you can spin the tires in 5th on the freeway. I've been in a VG30ET powered 510 and it scared the crap out of me. So if it was me, I'd throw in a VG30E, get it all done, and then if you decide you want turbo someday just drop in a turbo block and call it done, all the mounts will already be done from the n/a version.
I'm in the process of building a VG34E engine for my 510, which will have more power than the DE motor, and be a lot smaller.
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Jestahead
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Re: Viability of stuffing a VG30DE into my Triumph?
Thanks for the info guys. The VG30E does sound like a much better option (might even fit!) and based on a quick look over trademe even cheaper than the VG30DE. The real question is, how much power can you get out of it without spending a lot? The main reason for doing this over a Rover V8 would be cost-effectiveness, so it could fall flat on its face there if you need to invest mega-bucks in tuning for a significant increase over stock. The idea remains pretty attractive though.
Also, which gearboxes can you use with a VG30E? Just the Z32 box or will skyline/silvia gearboxes bolt up too? Could create another issue, depending.
Finally, as requested:
Now you can see why I think it'd make a great sleeper
Also, which gearboxes can you use with a VG30E? Just the Z32 box or will skyline/silvia gearboxes bolt up too? Could create another issue, depending.
Finally, as requested:
Now you can see why I think it'd make a great sleeper
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yellowdatsun
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Re: Viability of stuffing a VG30DE into my Triumph?
You would just want the transmission that came with the VG30E. So the Z31 would be the best choice. I'm not entirely sure about using the VG30DE transmission, whether it would bolt up or not. I do know that the VG30DE transmission is HUGE. Much bigger than the standard one. I think you'd be surprised with how a stock VG30E engine is. Tons of torque, and decent power. They last literally forever, and are one of the most reliable engines ever made. It takes some real serious beating to break one.
The VG30 and VG33 blocks are identical externally. So you can use a VG30E transmission with a VG33E with no problems. If you can start with a VG33E I would do that. Maybe throw in some Z31 cams and be done with it for the time being. If you want more power later than get some different pistons. Good platform to build on. Or you could leave the dished pistons in the 33 and turbo it. I don't know what's available where you are, but we can find whole Z31's in bad shape, with good engines and transmissions, for under $1000. This gives you everything to do the swap. I got mine for $250, but it had bent valves. We went to the junk yard and found some good ones. In the end I had maybe $500 into the whole swap.
The VG30 and VG33 blocks are identical externally. So you can use a VG30E transmission with a VG33E with no problems. If you can start with a VG33E I would do that. Maybe throw in some Z31 cams and be done with it for the time being. If you want more power later than get some different pistons. Good platform to build on. Or you could leave the dished pistons in the 33 and turbo it. I don't know what's available where you are, but we can find whole Z31's in bad shape, with good engines and transmissions, for under $1000. This gives you everything to do the swap. I got mine for $250, but it had bent valves. We went to the junk yard and found some good ones. In the end I had maybe $500 into the whole swap.