2003 Nissan Pathfinder Code P0011

[kristin517]

Hi,

I will preface by saying that I am very new to this forum and to mechanics in general so please be gentle . I have a 2003 Nissan Pathfinder. It has about 143 K miles on it and has been a great vehicle. I have needed to do very little maintenance to it over the years, and experienced nearly no problems. Well, I now have a few problems. First, I live in Massachusetts, and for those who are not familiar, it is a state that requires all vehicles to have a yearly inspection and emissions testing and mine is expiring at the end of June. About 2 weeks ago, my check engine light came on, and very shortly after I became unable to go higher than about 2500-3000 RPM without the car bucking forward. I can accelerate to 60 plus miles per hour but I have to do it very slowly. I went to an Auto Zone and had them scan for what was causing the check engine light. The codes coming up at that time were P0011, P0733, and P1131. A couple of days ago I took it to a mechanic right down the road and he had it for the morning (I walked home because it is less than a block away) and did some "diagnostics". When I went back he told me the only code he saw was P0011 and that it was my camshaft sensors (A and B) and they would both need to be replaced and he gave me an estimate of $650. The official description for P0011 is Intake valve timing control Performance - Bank 1 so I was confused when he said camshaft sensors but as I said I no little to nothing about the mechanics of my vehicle. Ever since I found out what the codes were I have been doing a lot of reading on forums and also manuals. I actually downloaded all of the mechanical manuals for my vehicle and started digging around for what could be the cause. One of the suggestions is that you start with an oil change. I must say that I have not always been best at doing my oil changes on time and there were several occasions I went 3000 + miles over the recommendation for my next change. Therefore, from what I have read it is very possible that my engine is extremely dirty and could be clogging something to cause these codes. I went to get an oil change and after explaining my situation they just recommended topping off my fluids because I was about 1000 before my next change was due.
After the mechanic told me about the camshaft sensors, I watched several videos and read my manuals to find out how to find them and remove them because I read that you could try "cleaning" them before replacing them. Again, only Bank 1 was coming up on the code but the mechanic insisted both would need to be changed so I pulled out both of them (leaving them attached to the green clips) and cleaned them as best I could (just using paper towels and toothpicks to get some of the gunk off of them). After I was done I started it up and the light was off and the RPM issue was gone. While doing this I had unplugged my battery so I knew it could just be that the code was reset because of that and the issue was not really fixed. However, I was still really excited because I had tried and found the process of what I did not so bad. Well, it went about a day and half and then today the code came back along with the bucking.
What I am looking to know is if anyone has had experience with these issues (either the codes or the bucking) and if so if they were able to find a lasting solution. My next step was going to be to order ONE new camshaft (bank 1), replace that and hope for the best, but from some of what I have read, there have been people who have done this and it did not resolve the problem. Another suggestion was to "clean" the engine but I also read horror stories about that where the complete engine went out after some did this due to having "black sludge" cause blockages where there weren't before. However, I found this cleaner that looks rather convincing because it claims not to do this - https://www.protecautocare.com/motor-ve ... gine-flush ... Anyway I threw that in here to see what people's opinions on cleaning the engine might be.
Sorry for the very long posts. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Kristin

[AZhitman]

Welcome aboard, Kristin!

There's a lot of info to digest, so I'll start at the top:

First, congrats for being willing to dig in and learn. THat's awesome, and we're here to help.
Don't sweat the oil change issue - It's very unlikely you did any harm, and it's unlikely your engine is "gunked up" enough to cause this issue.

The bucking and lack of acceleration is called "limp mode" and it's to protect your engine until you get home or to a shop. The computer tells it to do this when it gets a weird reading.

Also, let's not get too wrapped up in the AutoZone reader results. I HIGHLY recommend everyone buy a cheap OBD2 reader (under $10 on Amazon) and the Torque app fo their smartphone - then, you can do everything the knuckleheads at AutoZone can do, and do it better. That code can have a lot of different causes, so let's tackle one at a time.

Sounds like you already have the FSM, but if not, you can grab it here for free: www.nissanservicemanual.com

The first diagnostic I'd want to see is listed here, on page 178: http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Pathfinder/ ... der/ec.pdf

That'll tell you if this needs to be replaced (also inexpensive): http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Variable-Va ... 1796570252

Here's your cam position sensor ($27): http://www.amazon.com/Camshaft-Position ... B013YBSWO2

Back to the oil issue - Now that I think of it, the variable valve timing function is controlled by oil pressure. There's a possibility that a temporarily low oil condition *could* cause it to act up (and fail over time). Saw this on my daughter's CR-V and it drove me crazy until I resolved it (and it actually was an oil issue).

Let's get a couple oil changes in close succession (500 miles apart). Let's start using a 10w-40 or 20w-50 (cheap oil is fine) on that engine since she's got some miles on her.

If you really want to feel better about "de-sludging," follow the directions here and let's get a SeaFoam treatment done: http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/how-to ... t-way.html

Then, go get a couple quarts of cheap automatic trans fluid. Pour it into the crankcase, drive (a one-day commute won't hurt), and then do an oil change.

Keep in mind you'll want to clear your codes after EVERY intervention. When it doesn't come back, you've won!

Apologies if that's all over the place... but I hope you'll hang in there and see it through. We'll be right here, and we'll walk you through the rest!

[kristin517]

Wow -- thanks so much for your detailed response AZhitman! I wasn't sure if anyone would respond never mind give me such clear instructions...much appreciated. So, now I have a few questions/comments back to you in regards to your directions:

1. The OBD2 reader - I will happily buy one. I wanted to before you mentioned it but wasn't certain it would give me any further information and also didn't know what to get - I use Amazon - do you have one you can recommend for me and I will purchase it?

2. The diagnostic that you wanted me to do on p. 178...do I need the OBD2 reader to do this? If not, what am I doing to check the resistance?

3. I will go today to get an oil change (depending on how you answer my next question) - you say to start using 10W-40 or 20W-50 - is that what is usually used for a standard oil change at like a Valvoline Oil change place? Are those high mileage oils that you recommended or is that something else and if so, do you think I should do that as well? I do not usually but was going to start since I thought it might help. Getting the 500 miles on the car might be tough because I do not drive very far, very often. I am finishing up college this summer (a little late and I have been fortunate enough to have been going now full time without having to work more than a small part time job. My college is right down the road from where I live and the job I do is just the next town over so I don't do much highway or long distance driving. Do you suggest I start taking some long Sunday afternoon drives to get some mileage so I can do another oil change quickly? As I said I need to try to get this repaired by the end of June.

4. I really would feel better about doing a cleaning on the engine so if I am going to follow the article you linked, I should do that first rather than going for an oil change today, right? Also, due to the "limp mode" (so glad there's a name for it because I had no idea how to describe it) will I be able to do the 0-60 driving to do the cleaning? I would not be able to do a quick 0-60 unless I disconnect my battery before hand to clear the code temporarily. Otherwise it would be a slow, steady 0-60 over probably 20 seconds.

5. Regarding pouring trans fluid "into the crankcase" - are you talking about into where you add the oil? Is this only if I do the cleaning? And in what order am I doing this? Seafoam treatment - 50-100 miles then do oil change with more Seafoam - another oil change (how long after that one) - then add trans fluid (right after 2nd oil change?) - then do a 3rd change a day or two later?

6. Finally - should I just go ahead and order the cam position sensor - or wait until after I've done all this fiddling with the oil? And the VVT Solenoid - is that only if I get bad results from the diagnostic on p. 178 and if so, what are "bad results"?
And just one more thing - do you recommend I get a better jack and/or jack stands. I currently only have the jack that came with the vehicle and if I will be trying to do oil changes by myself (have also never done these before) where will I need to get to in order to do them?

Again, I very much appreciate your quick and detailed response. Let's hope I'm not getting myself in too technically deep here and that I can handle doing this stuff

Kristin

[kristin517]

Hi,

Been poking around some more and found this

http://workshop-manuals.com/nissan/path ... _dtcs_set/

I don't know that it necessarily gives any further info than we already have but I was wondering what a service bulletin is - does this mean many people have had the problem?

[Ilya]

Hi Kristin,

Where in MA are you located? I'm 20 minutes from the border in Albany, NY...if you're in the western half of the state (Springfield or any other point west), I may come out to you with my scanner and some tools and see what we can find.

Greg/AZ is right about the limp mode...car is definitely going into it. The cause is undetermined...but on Nissan's it could be the sensors your mechanic stated, the mass airflow sensor, etc.

See my responses in red:

Wow -- thanks so much for your detailed response AZhitman! I wasn't sure if anyone would respond never mind give me such clear instructions...much appreciated. So, now I have a few questions/comments back to you in regards to your directions:

1. The OBD2 reader - I will happily buy one. I wanted to before you mentioned it but wasn't certain it would give me any further information and also didn't know what to get - I use Amazon - do you have one you can recommend for me and I will purchase it?

I use an Android phone with the Torque app that AZ mentioned. I bought this OBD-II dongle: http://www.amazon.com/Vgate-Bluetooth-S ... detailpage


2. The diagnostic that you wanted me to do on p. 178...do I need the OBD2 reader to do this? If not, what am I doing to check the resistance?

You would need a voltmeter or something to test resistance, etc. To be honest, although I do 99% of my own car/bike work...I'm TERRIBLE at using those stupid things lol.

3. I will go today to get an oil change (depending on how you answer my next question) - you say to start using 10W-40 or 20W-50 - is that what is usually used for a standard oil change at like a Valvoline Oil change place? Are those high mileage oils that you recommended or is that something else and if so, do you think I should do that as well? I do not usually but was going to start since I thought it might help. Getting the 500 miles on the car might be tough because I do not drive very far, very often. I am finishing up college this summer (a little late and I have been fortunate enough to have been going now full time without having to work more than a small part time job. My college is right down the road from where I live and the job I do is just the next town over so I don't do much highway or long distance driving. Do you suggest I start taking some long Sunday afternoon drives to get some mileage so I can do another oil change quickly? As I said I need to try to get this repaired by the end of June.

Most cars in the NE run 5w-30 aside from maybe some German cars. But there isn't just one grade to be used...my car was made with 5W-30 in mind but I run 0W-40 IIRC. It's just different weights which mean it's thicker/less thick depending on which one...certain age motors need different oil than brand new one, etc.

5. Regarding pouring trans fluid "into the crankcase" - are you talking about into where you add the oil? Is this only if I do the cleaning? And in what order am I doing this? Seafoam treatment - 50-100 miles then do oil change with more Seafoam - another oil change (how long after that one) - then add trans fluid (right after 2nd oil change?) - then do a 3rd change a day or two later?

You can use ATF or seafoam. I personally use Seafoam (I put a cap or two in with each oil change so it acts as a 'cleaning agent' while I do my 5000 miles between changes. But don't put too much. If you use Seafoam, you will need to drop the oil pan after 100 miles, etc. from what I remember to really clean it out.

EDIT: Just re-read AZ's post, must have missed that section. Yes, do Seafoam and then follow it up with ATF.

There is also a product called "AutoRX" which I use when I buy a new to me (used) car to get it ready from changing from conventional oil to synthetic. They have their own process for using it which involves certain mileage, etc.

6. Finally - should I just go ahead and order the cam position sensor - or wait until after I've done all this fiddling with the oil? And the VVT Solenoid - is that only if I get bad results from the diagnostic on p. 178 and if so, what are "bad results"?
And just one more thing - do you recommend I get a better jack and/or jack stands. I currently only have the jack that came with the vehicle and if I will be trying to do oil changes by myself (have also never done these before) where will I need to get to in order to do them?

I'm not familiar with VVT solenoids, but at your mileage and assuming based on what you said that you've owned the truck for a while and know whether that part was changed...it's time to change it. If the $27 isn't going to be a big deal, I'd go ahead and change it. However, because of the cost of the VVT...it isn't that expensive and may be worth getting as well.

Again, I very much appreciate your quick and detailed response. Let's hope I'm not getting myself in too technically deep here and that I can handle doing this stuff

Kristin

Hi,

Been poking around some more and found this

http://workshop-manuals.com/nissan/path ... _dtcs_set/

I don't know that it necessarily gives any further info than we already have but I was wondering what a service bulletin is - does this mean many people have had the problem?

Yes, a service bulletin is something the manufacturer or country HQ for that brand puts out. I have my car scheduled to get the timing chain fixed per a service bulletin in 2 weeks, for example.

[attofarad]

Kristin,

Do not put transmission fluid in the crankcase.

How many miles have you had the car?

When you do it "on time," how often do you change your oil?
What kind of oil do they use?

Is it burning much oil between changes? If not, there is little reason to use anything except the recommend weight oil. I certainly would not use heavier than 10W40 (actually, I wouldn't use heavier than the recommended 5W30 unless you live where it gets over 100F on a regular basis).

To do oil changes yourself, you probably don't need to lift the car, just crawl under on your back. I put down an old blanket, then just wiggle under. There is a plastic cover under the engine that has to come off -- eight bolts (an extension for your ratchet wrench will be needed for two of them, maybe 6" or so is handy). I think the bolts have 10mm heads. Remove that cover and you will see the oil filter, which you can probably loosen by hand (and should only tighten by hand). Another socket for the oil pan drain bolt -- cannot remember the size, maybe 17mm? Be sure that it is the oil pan, and not the transmission, that you are draining. There is a copper crush washer/seal on the bolt. Officially you should replace it every time, but somewhere between every time and never seems to be okay -- if it leaks a tiny bit, replace it the next oil change. A torque wrench would be good for tightening the drain bolt, but just don't go crazy over-tightening and you don't have to have one. You will need a drain pan to catch the oil, and some container (and funnel) to put the old oil in, and probably lots of paper towels.

[AZhitman]

If you had read her posts in their entirety, you'd see our reasoning for recommending an engine flush and a different viscosity oil, as well as the mileage, and the fact that she takes it to a lube shop.

[kristin517]

Ilya -- Unfortunately I am just above the Rhode Island border, so nowhere near the border of New York but thank you for offering.

Sorry I haven't responded and thank you to everyone that did. I wanted to update the thread with some new information. I failed to mention in my initial post that my exhaust was leaking pretty badly. The reason is because I did not think it had anything to do with the codes that I was getting. Well, I made the decision to have the entire thing replaced. It was in pretty rough shape and I am surprised it stayed attached as long as it did in the condition it was in (both cat conv. were leaking and most all of it was rusted through). After doing this, I disconnected the battery overnight because I was anxious to see what codes would be remaining and I didn't know of any other way to reset it without using a console (which I still do not have). BTW - at Midas, when I went for the estimate of the exhaust, they scanned for codes and it was reading a P1130 and P506. Well, all codes have cleared -- I know from the last time that this might be temporary but since then I had a Doctor's appt. about 30 minutes away and I drove there and back and have been around town several times and as of a few minutes ago, the Engine light is still off. I don't know how long it would take to come back but I was wondering if anyone thought that the codes 1130/1131 might be resolved with a new exhaust? I don't know whether to think the problem has been fixed now or to prepare for it to show up again. Also, the "limp mode" has also been resolved because it goes with those codes and if it does show up again, most likely I will be forced to deal with that again.

Finally, my ABS light is on. I can't remember when it showed up but it was after my original post. That unfortunately is still there. Odd thing is that I went to Auto Zone to see if they had a scanner that could detect for ABS and they did (it is rentable but the guy just came out and did it for me). Prior to doing the scan on my Pathfinder, he said that the scanner was compatible with all make/model vehicles but when he did scan it came up that it could not detect and ABS system on the vehicle. Any thoughts? Does anyone think this had to do with the engine light codes or is it just a coincidence that showed up during this whole process?

Again, thank you for everyone's input.

Kristin

[AZhitman]

ABS light can have a lot of causes. Check brake fluid level, make sure all bulbs are working (yep, that'll trip it)... If those are good, we can go to the next things.