Tire noise

[EXcitement]

My EX is experiencing very loud tire noise after putting about 30,000 miles on my Dunlop tires. Is anyone else having this problem? The service dept. checked out everything last week and suggested that there was some "cupping" on the tires that might be the source of the noise. The tires look fine, there is plenty of tread left, but the noise is bothersome both at low and high speeds. Any thoughts or confirming opinions would be appreciated. I have never had Dunlop tires...maybe this is common. I would hate to buy new tires at this point, but may have to in order to return to the quiet ride i expect.

[yellowbear]

You probably know that as a tire gets older, it gets louder. My Lexus did the same thing requiring a tire change at 22K mile. At 30K miles I suspect your tires are worn in certain areas and a new set would cure your noise problem. 30K on a set of tires is pretty good these days for a softer compound with a softer and more quiet ride

[EXcitement]

I should have mentioned that the 30,000 miles are all highway miles and the tires show very little wear. Based on my experience with Michelins on my Lexus I would get a mimimun of 50,000 (the Lexus is still going strong at 275,000 and I think I am on my fourth set). Maybe this is unrealistic on the Dunlops. I am definitely thinking about a new set.

[cjre1]

Excitement,

I use to own Dunlop and after 28K miles, they sound awful. I went to Michelins and now get 60K miles without any tire noise. Dunlop to me is plane crap. Only my opinion, not to poke fun to anyone.

[Poyzinous]

I hear that a lot with dunlop tires. Unfortunately there aren't many choices for alternative tires. What I did when my dunlops wore down on my altima, I just did my own skidpad run at an empty parking lot and a near tire squealing speed, both clockwise and counterclockwise directions to wear out the tread a little and smooth it out. If you want quiet you could switch to Michelin Primacy tires, but they aren't V rated and dont grip quite as well as the Dunlops. Or you could go to a 245/50R18. I dont think there will be fitment issues. Dont quote me tho...

[RioD007]

You are lucky... mine were toast after 14,000 miles

[EXcitement]

Replaced tires after 14,000 yikes. What did you get for replacements? Anyone else have a tire recommendation (a quiet tire recommendation) besides the Michelins?

[Cobra427]

I have exactly the same noise problem with my Dunlop tires after 43,000 kilometers.I will suffer with them till winter as I have set of winter tires waiting.next year I will buy 245/50R18. Dont know yet what make I will buy. I have a set of Falken tires on my other car and I'm very happy with them.

[SteveTheTech]

My EX is experiencing very loud tire noise after putting about 30,000 miles on my Dunlop tires.

How have you been rotating them. I would say run your hands over the surface of the tire with an open palm towards the tread. If you feel raised edges on the inside edge of the tires you are starting to develop feather edging. This is a normal byproduct of alignment and is not a design flaw. With frequent cross rotation the wear can be balanced. I would also suggest getting a 4 wheel alignment. Your front toe should be set to between 0.02 and 0.04 each side. This will allow for less chance of featheredging without sacrificing road feel.

This is one of my primary reasons for strongly recommend asymmetrical tread designed tires. Keeping to a strict ~7k rotation schedule will get the most out of your tires.

You are lucky... mine were toast after 14,000 miles

You really do drive the hell out of that thing don't you.

[EXcitement]

thanks for the advice Steve the Tech. I had been rotating around 10,000 miles....when i look for new tires (which will probably be soon) i look for asymmetrical design. Thanks for your thoughts.

[SteveTheTech]

To prolong the life of your future tires rotate them at every oil change. It may sound excessive but using the X rotation pattern will have significantly different results.

This is one of those instances where a little more proactive maintenance will save you money down the road.

[gloa2000]

1. Try not to hit the bumps when parking.2. Rotate them every 2 oil change interval.3. Keep your Tire Pressure matched. (around 28-32 psi is ideal for me)4. When replacing tire is required try to change all 4 or at least 2 at a time.5. Check the shape of your treads by touching it with fingers/palm, if tires make noise, it means your tread is wearing out unevenly, unless you have bad suspension/hub bearings.

Changing tires are very expensive. If you maintain them well, you will save money. I have set of Falkens on my car and with 60k miles on them i still have plenty of treads left and it still rides like a new car.

[mapplay]

I have the same tires on my Ex35 and had trouble getting the dealer to admit there is an issue with these tires. I had them replaced at 25,000 miles with the same tires (split the cost with the dealer) and now at 45,000 they need to be replaced again. It really sucks when you pay good money for a car and they put crap tires on it.I will keep these until I cant stand the noise anymore and then get Michelins........

[kullenberg]

Steve:On the whole, I agree with your tire rotation scheme, but only because I change oil at 7500 mile intervals. I only use Moble 1, and a high amount of my miles are on cross country interstates. I've been using the X pattern on the OE Michelins , however I'm going to replace them with Nokian WR's, which is a directional tire, the rotation oif which is only fr to rear.

[RioD007]

You really do drive the hell out of that thing don't you.

Yes I Do And Love Every Second Of It!

But that was with a few IOS track days that really chewed them up and i always run the thing at about 38-40 psi

but my new tires are lasting MUCH better even though they are VERY VERY soft compound tires

perhaps its the fact that there wider I dont know...

Any thoughts?

[ecosse]

Just wanted to add my voice to the dissatisfaction over 'cupping' and tire noise with the OEM Dunlops. Mine started at 30k even though the tires have been rotated by the dealer every 6k.Just back from having a 4 wheel alignment (37k) - perhaps should have done it sooner but the tech. said it was not that bad.

So I'm also interested in the best recommendation for replacement tires (for all season use). Is Nokian WR the way to go?

[kullenberg]

I had Nokians on a Highlander, and they were excellent - low noise, good ride, excellent in the winter. They are a all season tire, that is winter rated. The only problem is finding them. They made in Finland, where they know about snow!

[ramprun]

My EX is experiencing very loud tire noise after putting about 30,000 miles on my Dunlop tires. Is anyone else having this problem? The service dept. checked out everything last week and suggested that there was some "cupping" on the tires that might be the source of the noise. The tires look fine, there is plenty of tread left, but the noise is bothersome both at low and high speeds. Any thoughts or confirming opinions would be appreciated. I have never had Dunlop tires...maybe this is common. I would hate to buy new tires at this point, but may have to in order to return to the quiet ride i expect.

Solution to your problem, don't go too fast nor too slow.

[TheWifesEX]

Speaking of Falkens, we have the 18" wheels, and we replaced the Dunlops about 2 months ago (at about 25k miles) with Falken Ziex ZE912. Looks like they're the only performance tire of the same size, they're about 2/3 the price of the Dunlops, and that model was recently ranked by Consumer Reports as the best high performance all season tire. That's the good news.

The bad news is that with only 2k miles on them, they're starting to show the same problem that started with the Dunlops at about 14k miles. The problem is not "cupping" or "feathering" - as many service managers and even techs would and have incorrectly called it - but heel and toe wear on the outside tread blocks only. When viewed from the side, there is a sawtooth like shape to the tread blocks, with the leading edge being slightly higher than the trailing edge. It can be felt by running the palm of your hand along the outside circumference. I wonder if that's actually a problem others on this forum are experiencing but mislabeling?

We bought the car with 12k miles on it, and it drove fine (although not 100% sure the tires hadn't already started to wear abnormally - in fact, they may have been relatively new, I never checked the tread depth). Went on a long road trip and about 2k miles in, started to get vibration in the front, mostly passenger side. Got 4-wheel alignment, balance and rotation halfway into the trip, but tires never "corrected" as they said hopefully would happen. Couldn't stand the vibration after a few more months and 10k miles, so bought the new tires (but skipped the alignment, which was likely a mistake).

After replacing the tires (bought at DiscountTire.com, installed at dealer), the ride was vastly improved, but oscillation on braking was more pronounced (just more noticeable since it was isolated?). Next visit led to resurfacing front and rear discs, then replacing front discs, at no charge to me (this is at about 26k) AND another tire balance, which they admitted wasn't done properly the first time. All seemed well.

Another 1k miles or so and we're on a Sunday drive yesterday - had very slight vibration again, but I figured maybe just the road/my head? On the way back, vibration was much more pronounced, so I checked the tires when we got home and noticed the early stages of the heel and toe wear. This went from barely noticeable to pretty annoying in a hurry (less than 60 miles).

Very ticked off, and very concerned that there's more going on than a slight alignment problem. I mean, can very slight heel and toe wear cause such a noticeable vibration, especially after only 2k miles? Besides, can't the car hold an alignment for more than 6 months? I've noticed mention on this forum of a steering rack issue, but the dealer says that has nothing to do with my symptoms. Anyway, it's back to the dealer tomorrow, probably for an alignment, and then I don't know what...

Sorry for the long first post - I'm new to this forum, but have been reading for a while, thanks for all of the useful info over the past year.

[Punjab]

I completely agree with you, it seems that all the infiniti dealerships pay their service personnel to annoy and intentionally confuse customers, they like to spurt out a solution (an excuse that their is no TSB for the problem, so it doesn't exist) to a problem before any inspection, i have heard all kinds of stories on the road noise from it is the tires, to the vehicle mixed with the aliment, the suspension type and etc.. Its just plain irresponsible management and it needs to be made known, i am going to complain to infiniti customer relations after my next visit to the dealership. This poor service is not warranted on a vehicle of such a cost and perceived value/reputation.

[JCL622]

Speaking of Falkens, we have the 18" wheels, and we replaced the Dunlops about 2 months ago (at about 25k miles) with Falken Ziex ZE912. Looks like they're the only performance tire of the same size, they're about 2/3 the price of the Dunlops, and that model was recently ranked by Consumer Reports as the best high performance all season tire. That's the good news.

The bad news is that with only 2k miles on them, they're starting to show the same problem that started with the Dunlops at about 14k miles. The problem is not "cupping" or "feathering" - as many service managers and even techs would and have incorrectly called it - but heel and toe wear on the outside tread blocks only. When viewed from the side, there is a sawtooth like shape to the tread blocks, with the leading edge being slightly higher than the trailing edge. It can be felt by running the palm of your hand along the outside circumference. I wonder if that's actually a problem others on this forum are experiencing but mislabeling?

We bought the car with 12k miles on it, and it drove fine (although not 100% sure the tires hadn't already started to wear abnormally - in fact, they may have been relatively new, I never checked the tread depth). Went on a long road trip and about 2k miles in, started to get vibration in the front, mostly passenger side. Got 4-wheel alignment, balance and rotation halfway into the trip, but tires never "corrected" as they said hopefully would happen. Couldn't stand the vibration after a few more months and 10k miles, so bought the new tires (but skipped the alignment, which was likely a mistake).

After replacing the tires (bought at DiscountTire.com, installed at dealer), the ride was vastly improved, but oscillation on braking was more pronounced (just more noticeable since it was isolated?). Next visit led to resurfacing front and rear discs, then replacing front discs, at no charge to me (this is at about 26k) AND another tire balance, which they admitted wasn't done properly the first time. All seemed well.

Another 1k miles or so and we're on a Sunday drive yesterday - had very slight vibration again, but I figured maybe just the road/my head? On the way back, vibration was much more pronounced, so I checked the tires when we got home and noticed the early stages of the heel and toe wear. This went from barely noticeable to pretty annoying in a hurry (less than 60 miles).

Very ticked off, and very concerned that there's more going on than a slight alignment problem. I mean, can very slight heel and toe wear cause such a noticeable vibration, especially after only 2k miles? Besides, can't the car hold an alignment for more than 6 months? I've noticed mention on this forum of a steering rack issue, but the dealer says that has nothing to do with my symptoms. Anyway, it's back to the dealer tomorrow, probably for an alignment, and then I don't know what...

Sorry for the long first post - I'm new to this forum, but have been reading for a while, thanks for all of the useful info over the past year.

the Ziex 912s are a great tire. I had those for a bit before i swapped to Potenza S-02 pole positions on the TL -

however it would seem you expect to not need an alignment for X amount of miles. There is no set period of when you need one. It depends on where and how you drive. I used to drive my TL like a bat out of hell, as a result, i needed new tires almost every 9000 miles and i was changing my oil probably every 3500 not out of habit, but because the engine oil was running that low already ~ 35%.

anyway, you may not drive like i did then, but the environment around you may require that you do an alignment more often than you would like. Also, things like a bent rim (one really bad pot hole can do that) or slightly bent rim will also cause bad heel/toe rash and vibrations.

i think everyone should be doing this on any car they buy, firestone has a one time fee for lifetime alignment on that car. it pays for itself very fast...

anyway, if you can check the quality of your rims, actually make sure that the tires are really all evenly worn or better yet all equally new, tire pressure, and alignment, i am sure you will discover that the noise goes away.

Another very common thing is if youve had a flat and only replaced that one tire, you will get road noise as well...so there are a few factors to all of this.

[ecosse]

This is a perfect description of what I have been experiencing since about 30,000 km. I want to get new tires but I'm concerned that it's a car problem not a tire problem and, like you, will be back in the same situation after spending a bunch of money for nothing.

[QUOTE=TheWife’sEX]The bad news is that with only 2k miles on them, they're starting to show the same problem that started with the Dunlops at about 14k miles. The problem is not "cupping" or "feathering" - as many service managers and even techs would and have incorrectly called it - but heel and toe wear on the outside tread blocks only. When viewed from the side, there is a sawtooth like shape to the tread blocks, with the leading edge being slightly higher than the trailing edge. It can be felt by running the palm of your hand along the outside circumference. I wonder if that's actually a problem others on this forum are experiencing but mislabeling?

[EXceptional]

After a 2000 Km Round Trip to Manitoba and back (just got Home today), we too have noticed this oscillating Tire noise, which varies with speed.

With only 18,000 Km's on them, they sound like Crap.

I'm a Michelin Man too and I guess I'll be buying a new Set sooner, rather than later.

[EXceptional]

Now I guess with a Tire Rotation, we needn't worry about the TPMS's cause they aren't really "unique" to a Tires location are they ?

When it goes off, it just tells you that "one" of them is low.

[ramprun]

deflate one of the tire to see what kind of warning it will give you. i don't think it matter position of the tire but i think it will tell you which tire is low.

[TheWifesEX]

Sorry, I initially responded because of the mention of Falkens, and the general tire issue, but perhaps the "Tire Noise" thread wasn't the right place for me to describe my issues/concerns - because in fact, I'm most concerned about the short life-span/premature wear/heel and toe wear than anything else. The vibration seems to go hand in hand with that problem, and seriously detracts from the driving experience. The tire noise is relatively slight, and is at this point the least of my concerns.

...however it would seem you expect to not need an alignment for X amount of miles. There is no set period of when you need one. It depends on where and how you drive. I used to drive my TL like a bat out of hell, as a result, i needed new tires almost every 9000 miles and i was changing my oil probably every 3500 not out of habit, but because the engine oil was running that low already ~ 35%.

anyway, you may not drive like i did then, but the environment around you may require that you do an alignment more often than you would like. Also, things like a bent rim (one really bad pot hole can do that) or slightly bent rim will also cause bad heel/toe rash and vibrations.

Living in the Northeast, I would agree that I'm more likely to need more frequent alignments than some down South or out West. However it would seem that an alignment should last more than 6 months an 8-9k miles, especially over the summer months (i.e. - April thru Sept). Since I had one in April, and the new tires on in Aug, I figured I'd go through the winter, then get one in the spring. Especially since the car drives/handles fine. I realize a car out of alignment specs can seem to drive OK and have imperceptible impact on the tires, but I find it hard to believe that it could cause so much damage to the two front tires in only 2k miles, and on two occurrences with two different tires (Dunlops and Falkens) in around 25k miles.

While I drive fairly aggressively ('06 S4 Avant and '98 M3 Conv.), this is my wife's car, and I know she's not taking off ramps at 75mph and/or weaving in and out of traffic. I've gone through tires in 25-30k miles before, but never less - and unless we're talking about hard driving on max performance summer tires, I would expect (perhaps naively) most tire sets on a fairly new vehicle with no mechanical issues to last 10's of thousands of miles, not a few thousand.

anyway, if you can check the quality of your rims, actually make sure that the tires are really all evenly worn or better yet all equally new, tire pressure, and alignment, i am sure you will discover that the noise goes away.

Another very common thing is if youve had a flat and only replaced that one tire, you will get road noise as well...so there are a few factors to all of this.

Thanks JCL662, and you were probably speaking to the thread in general, but to be clear in my case, these are 4 new tires, pressure is fine. Not sure how to check the rims (visibly they seem fine) to see if there is a slight bend to them.

I'm bringing the car in tomorrow to see what the dealer says. My limited research on heel and toe wear seems to indicate that it is caused by out of spec caster settings. The caster was within spec on the alignment back in April and was not adjusted - and from my experience, it is the least likely of the three alignment settings to get knocked "out of whack". So...it will be interesting to see what the dealer tries to claim is the cause. I'm considering going to an independent shop for an alignment first, for an unbiased measurement - but that also opens it up to the dealer claiming it wasn't done properly, so I may just have to hope the dealer does the right thing and doesn't "fudge" any readings. I know....

[TheWifesEX]

This is a perfect description of what I have been experiencing since about 30,000 km. I want to get new tires but I'm concerned that it's a car problem not a tire problem and, like you, will be back in the same situation after spending a bunch of money for nothing.

Interesting. I suspect we aren't the only two, and some others that have complained about early tire wear are perhaps experiencing the same exact problem, but it just isn't being described the same? I think someone else raised the concern that it might be a suspension geometry issue, which would REALLY stink...

Kind of a stab in the dark here, but other possible design/quality issues could be related to the steering rack (seems to be a known issue, but not tied with tire wear...yet) or I was thinking maybe a problem with the front/rear torque split in the ATTESA system, causing uneven rotation rates at the corners and thus a sort of "pushing" on the tires??? Just curious, have you spoken to the dealer about it? Keep an eye on this post (or maybe I should start a new one titled "Tire Wear"?!?) and I'll let you know what I learn (or don't learn) on my upcoming visit.

[SteveTheTech]

This thread has progressed in an interesting manner.

First of all I would like to welcome TheWife'sEx to the group.

There are a few things that I feel have been brushed over with little attention payed to them. The Caster setting is actually one of the angles most effected by a collision or impact. Think about the inclination of the vertical axis of the front wheels centerline. Most of the force of an impact is dissipated through these components. The problem with caster is there is not only no adjustment there is no way lie about it. The caster measurement procedure may be flawed in the machine but there is no way to screw it up if camber and toe are not completely out of specification.

When I teach a new tech alignment procedures on these cars I always try to show them that these cars will tell you what is wrong right from the tires and their wear patterns. The majority of tire wear noticed on these cars if featheredging caused to excessive total toe and wear caused by incorrect inflation. The spec seems a little on excessive side and even keeping it in the green is not enough. To the untrained eye tire wear can be misread and I have actually watched several service writers misdiagnose problems and just pull things out of the air.

Total toe is more important and the closer to 0(zero) of the thrust angle the less tire wear that will be noted.

Caster is not adjustable not and will never be adjusted. We (Infiniti forum member, moderator) have been dealing with this for years with other models. Several members in the G and M forum have experienced this for a while and there have been several threads calling for all types of action to resolve this. The fact of the matter is these cars were set up to allow for the maximum performance of the AWD system. Whether your car has awd or not the suspension is not different (geometry wise) from rwd models with the exception of shock rate and slight variance in ride height. The camber caster and toe settings in the front are the same and are designed to allow for seemless torgue split with no Acura esque torque steer.

The tires will never wear from the awd system it just does not work in such a way that that is a viable option for the wear. If there were enough of a problem with the awd system you would know about it well before the tires had a chance to wear.

The roads in Massachusetts suck and many of them are going to make noise. I notice this in my own car as well as my wife's when we head up to that area. Increased tire lead and noise are noticed more in this type of vehicle. The German cars are not as prone to this but in skimming some of their forums tire issues are not at all uncommon. This is not a design flaw and will not be changed by the company as any significant alteration to the suspension will have a significant ripple effect.

The best thing for an EX that is not being put through the paces on a daily basis is a good set of Tier 1 asymetrical tires like a Goodyear, Michellin, or Bridgestone. Kumhos are not going to work well on this car no matter what when they start to break in they will get noisy.

What is the toe setting on your most recent alignment sheet?

[TheWifesEX]

This is a perfect description of what I have been experiencing since about 30,000 km. I want to get new tires but I'm concerned that it's a car problem not a tire problem and, like you, will be back in the same situation after spending a bunch of money for nothing.

Interesting. I suspect we aren't the only two, and some others that have complained about early tire wear are perhaps experiencing the same exact problem, but it just isn't being described the same? I think someone else raised the concern that it might be a suspension geometry issue, which would REALLY stink...

Kind of a stab in the dark here, but other possible design/quality issues could be related to the steering rack (seems to be a known issue, but not tied with tire wear...yet) or I was thinking maybe a problem with the front/rear torque split in the ATTESA system, causing uneven rotation rates at the corners and thus a sort of "pushing" on the tires??? Just curious, have you spoken to the dealer about it? Keep an eye on this post (or maybe I should start a new one titled "Tire Wear"?!?) and I'll let you know what I learn (or don't learn) on my upcoming visit.

[EXceptional]

On Saturday, October 10th... we left Edmonton with a quiet running Car.

By the time we got back Home, the EX35 had the oscillating, rotational Noise.

We drove to Brandon Manitoba and then back to Edmonton on October 12th.

Our Air Canada flight was canceled because of bad Weather at the Winnipeg Airport, so we got our Money back and took the EX35.

The Car was parked, once we got to Brandon. Average speed on the Highway was 120 to 140 KM's.

I will do an "X" Rotation of the Tires this weekend... and see if it cures it.