sr installed, but not alive...help!!!

For the RWD SR20DET cars! Sponsored by Wiring Specialties.
User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

ok guys this is what i have found: i do not see any errors in the wiring coming from the ecu to the relay;nor do i see any discrepencies from that relay box all the way through the harness to the fuel pump. boriquas13...i tried putting a ground to the black skinny wire from the relay and it just blew the fuse. the thick black w/yellow wire on the relay has no power. the thick black w/white wire is hot. the thin blackw/white wire is hot. and the black w/pink wire is hot(relay clicks when i put ground to it but does not blow the fuse). i also unhooked the relay like you said and i did not have 12V anywhere. what the heck is going on?!?! like suggested aforehand, could this be the ecu? or am i making some silly silly mistake and just not considering something? also, when the key is switched to the on position and also while attempting to start the engine, both wires on the fuel injectors stay hot-is this supposed to be? i hope this information can help someone help me...thanks


Blown240sx
Posts: 1963
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:20 pm
Car: 1996 240sx

Post

wehn the relay clicked over did you hear the pump prime? You might have a bad relay have you tried a new relay?

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

yes, i have tried three relays. no the pump did not prime when it clicked.

boriquaS13
Posts: 699
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:05 pm
Car: 92 240sx

Post

leroiboy your supposed to have power on both sides of the injector when the ignition is turned on. The ecu send a ground signal to the injector to energize the injector while cranking or running it happens to fast for the voltmeter to show the ground flash. You should have heard the fuel pump prime when you heard the relay click, have you hooked up a volt meter to the fuel pump connector with the key off then turn the key on you should have 12 volts for approximately 5 seconds if you do then you have a problem in your fuel pump, wiring at the pump. Now being that you replaced the pump with a walboro correct, then I would like to assume its not the pump. What I suggest is if you check and have no voltage take the voltmeter cable touch one of the cable to a known good ground and the other to one of the wires on the connecter for your fuel pump (harness side not fuel pump side) and see if there is any voltage if not then check the other one. I really wish I could help you better but its hard online. If there is then you could have a ground issue. You know it sounds like you have more than one problem, try grounding the relay again same wire that made it click and leave the voltmeter hooked up and see if you have any voltage. Man I just wish I could help you better. Good luck bro.

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

no luck with any of the suggestions which wire at the fuel pump harness are supposed to be ground and hot-and are any switch over to hot (or ground) with key in on position or starting position. i found that the black wire with yellow stripe coming from the fuel pump is dead after it comes through the firewall on the opposite side of the little white box(until then it has power all the way from the fuel pump relay-BUT ONLY WHEN I GROUNDED THE BLACK WIRE WITH PINK STRIPE WHICH IS ALSO ON THE RELAY LIKE BORIQUAS13 SAID). so i took a jumper wire to the live part and ran it back to the fuel pump harness-it turns on but continues to run. i tried to start it anyway, but the injectors are still not working. some things are telling me it HAS to be the wiring somewhere/somehow, but the other occupant standing on my shoulder says "dude your ecu MIGHT be bad". so im really getting totally confused now and pissed. one last thing. when key is in on position, the egi relay(next to egi pump relay)gets a bit warm, is this supposed to be?-i didn't try changing that one as i just noticed it tonight,so i'll check that one in the a.m. thanks guys

User avatar
chicos240
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:18 am
Car: 1995 240 SX

Post

Ok leroiI have no experience with s13 chassis or s13 sr20(I have s14 of both) They are similar but not the same.But I did some downloading and pdfing and searching...So as you can see there is 8 files here

Now here is how I think the relay works from what the FSM tells me;The ECM sends a signal to the relay the relay initiates the pump. Then the Camshaft sensor tells the ECM that the engine is cranking and the ECM leaves the relay on, if the camshaft sensor does not tell the ECM that the engine is moving, then the ECM turns off the relay which in turn turns off the pump.Here is the Pinout from FrSPORT, which tells us the Black PInk goes from the ECM to the relayHere is the ECM pinout from an s14SR20FSM ( I couldnt find an s13 anywhere)Here are the color codes from the s13 fsm

There are 4 which go together they are here...this is the wiring diagram from an s13

Now from what I can see here there are 2 wires on page 4 which are not ground the B/Y and the B/PSo thats Black and Yellow and Black and Pinkthe Black and yellow goes to the Junction Box(Super Junction Box) That wire according to page 4 keeps going to your Fuel Pump. So, heres what I am assuming you can doA) make sure there is a signal and continuity from the ECM (B/P wire) to the relay. That way we know the relay is receiving the signal1)hook up to your B/Y coming out of the relay to check for continuity. All the way to your Fuel Pump at the b/y wireIf continuity is good there work your way back to the ECM(which I am assuming is good, since you do hear clicks?) this should be the black and Pink wireIf continuity is bad here shorten the distance and work your way back(could be a bad wire)2)Hook Up to your B/Y coming out of the relay and to a ground with a voltmeter and see what type of voltage you get(maybe get some long leads or have someone else turn the key since the voltage only lasts for one second or so(according to the FSM if I am reading it correctly)If you do get a reading then the ECM is sending the signal to the relay and the relay is sending it on through the B/Y wire to the pump3)Move down the line to the pump and do the same thing with the B/Y at the pump.If there is a reading that means the pump is getting its signalI am assuming if this all works so far there should be fuel being delivered to the injectors, and the coils should fire.If the coils fire and the cam sensor isn't telling the ECM that the engine is cranking over, then we have more troubleshooting to do. Good luck manThe Jpegs aren't super clear, so if you need them email me and I will email them to you

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

Leroi -

I am not sure if my injectors stopped working.. I believe that would have meant my CAS was bad... (I'm a girl too) ... I was in okinawa and my x husband was there to see me so I couldn't waste all that precious time working on my car... I had it towed to my dorms and then tinkered with the CAS, swapped ignitor chips... troubleshooting the fuel system and ignitor chip after he left.. I remember the injectors did click when I manually turned it.. so the last resort was the ecu swap.. luckily a few parking spaces down was my friends 180 that was in hibernation because his JCI was expired.. so I borrowed his ecu for a sec and it fired right up when I put it in! So have you tried pulling your CAS out and turning it by hand to see if you hear the injectors click?

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

chicos, i emailed you-thanks. tiger-sorry for the gender insensitivity , im trying to get with someone with an ecu i could swap and try and ill also try an ignitor too. so do you mean to simply pull the cas out of the head and just turn the shaft, and i should hear the injectors click? thanks again. also as a side note, me not having the o2sensor unplugged(waiting for new one to arrive-last one got the wires snatched out of sensor) would cause any of this, would it?

Modified by leroiboy at 10:29 AM 4/27/2007
Modified by leroiboy at 10:34 AM 4/27/2007

User avatar
chicos240
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:18 am
Car: 1995 240 SX

Post

Ok, if that wire the B/Y STOPS continuity after the firewall, then it seems to me that the wire is messed up somewhere or it could be the Junction. This tells me that there is NO continuity all the way to your Fuel Pump, hence it is not priming.Have you tried this,Where your B/Y wire meets up with your relay on the way to the fuel pumpStrip the wire a little(just a little)Now attach a secondary wire to that relay and run that wire all the way back to your fuel pump.check for continuity.

hook up a voltmeter to the NEW Wire you just ran and turn the key and see if you get voltage.If you do receive voltage , I can assume you could strip back your B/Y a little and connect your new LONG wire to the B/Y at the fuel pump. All we are doing is Bypassing the Junction box at the firewall/dash and seeing if a NEW wire will prime your pump.If this works you should be gettting fuelI will be cutting and pasting this to the forumHeres the PDFS

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

yea, i tried this. the pump primed but continues to run and does not shut off.

User avatar
chicos240
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:18 am
Car: 1995 240 SX

Post

1)You Bypassed the Junction at the firewall 2) Turned the key and the Fuel Pump runs,3)SO the Fuel Pump works(we knew that)4)According to the FSM the Fuel pump should just turn on for a second from the signal sent from the ECM to the relay and the relay to the pump.5)Then the CAS tells the ECM to turn off the pump if the engine is not cranking.6)So if the engine is cranking then the CAS is doing its job and telling the ECM to keep delivering fuel. 7)Now is there spark?

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

yes i still have spark, just no injectors(it's power at them but not being activated???). so if fuel continues to be delivered when key is just turned on,not cranking,is this because of the way i wired it up(remember, i only get power to the black and yellow wire when i ground the black and pink wire on the relay), or does it point more toward a bad cas or ecu?

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

leroiboy wrote:chicos, i emailed you-thanks. tiger-sorry for the gender insensitivity , im trying to get with someone with an ecu i could swap and try and ill also try an ignitor too. so do you mean to simply pull the cas out of the head and just turn the shaft, and i should hear the injectors click? thanks again. also as a side note, me not having the o2sensor unplugged(waiting for new one to arrive-last one got the wires snatched out of sensor) would cause any of this, would it?

Modified by leroiboy at 10:29 AM 4/27/2007

Modified by leroiboy at 10:34 AM 4/27/2007
Hey, well yes.. pull the CAS out.. and connect it to the wiring harness and spin the gear on it and listen for the click, click, click, click... each injector should click.. I guess make sure your key is turned once or twice, I dodno.. it has been about 2 years so i'm pulling this all from memory.. if your ignitor chip is bad it wont click but if you h ave spark then your ignitior chip is good.. duh. hehe. Dang I hope u get it figured out.. there has to be another person with an SR20 near you... even someone you don't know might let you use theirs for just a second... who knows. nah the o2 sensor unplugged would not cause that... if you have spark your ignitor chip is good, so dont worry about that.

I bet the ECU is bad !!!

User avatar
chicos240
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:18 am
Car: 1995 240 SX

Post

Check the CAS according to tigers instructions.but this sounds more and more like an ecu or a wiring issue.Is there any way you can get an ecu so we can rule that out?

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

yea i am working on it and hopefully will have one by the end of this weekend. i would love that to either be my problem(i kinda hope it is ecu)or rule it out and know that it is the wiring. if so, i think i will just run my own and re-wire a few sections so that i can be sure that everything is correct.

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

good luck and let us know what comes of it!


boriquaS13
Posts: 699
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:05 pm
Car: 92 240sx

Post

Leroiboy I think your going in the right direction definatly check the cas sensor make sure to rule this out. I guess if you source another ecu and still have the same problem then take a hard look at the cas sensor. Also im still concerned about your fuel pump issues but there are easy solutions to that problem. Hopefully that ecu takes care of your entire problem. Good luck leroiboy and I hope that you get your ride running.

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

alright, ill post back to this thread once i find something out-one way or the other. the guy i got my engine set from is getting me another ecu so we will soon see. thanks to all

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

ok folks, got a few questions.

1)my ecu led light stays solid red-what does this mean?2)when i installed the CAS, i had the #1cyl. on the compression stroke 15 degrees btdc. should i have set it here or installed it at zero degrees and then adjusted it to tdc?(would this have anything to do with the injectors not firing?)3)i turned the crank manually to try to listen for the injectors clicking via the CAS, as tiger suggested and didnt hear anything-do i HAVE to remove it and then turn the gear shaft and listen for the clicks while it is outside of the block?4)i also got to thinking about even when i hot wire the pump, shouldn't it turn off when enought pressure is built(just like if it were working as it should)? also, what tells the pump that enough fuel is up at the rail before cranking it?-how do i test whatever mechanism controls this/or is it built into the fuel pump(sorry for rambling sentence)?

this is me everytime i leave the garage for the past 2 1/2 weeks:

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

1. did you turn the screw all the way counter clockwise, just do a search on pulling codes from the ECU and follow the directions.2. I dont think that would.. it would not let the car run right at the most..3. You have to remove the CAS from the head, completely remove it... and plug the harness in it and turn the small gear by hand... make sure ignition is on..


User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

ok, im about to go try this, one more thing. i know the thread about finding out the date of the sr engine by codes on the coilpacks-just cant find it right now. can some give me the link for this or if they know how to determine it, please tell me. i have a code 62 ecu and wondering if it is the correct one, because i have the little fins on the front of my redtop(from my understanding these retops are newer?). thanks

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

i believe 62 is manual... and 63 is 5sp... Is the sticker red or green on the ecu? not sure but I can find out... just gota go look for mine

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

boom shaka-lacka... manual ecu is red... it doesn't matter if yours is green, I ran an auto ecu in my sr before and it didn't really make too much of a difference. but the one that burtn out was the Auto ECU(the one that was not turning ont he fuel pump

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

ok, it is a red sticker-#62 ECU. also, these numbers are on it:2371050F00A11-000 G90

i also just took the CAS out and i heard all of the injectors click and so did the fuel pump relay(but only when i stopped turning it for about 3 secs. and then again when i resumed turning it-didn't click while i continued turning CAS tho)

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

ok, it is a red sticker-#62 ECU. also, these numbers are on it:2371050F00A11-000 G90i also just took the CAS out and i heard all of the injectors click and so did the fuel pump relay(but only when i stopped turning it for about 3 secs. and then again when i resumed turning it-didn't click while i continued turning CAS tho)

sorry for double post


User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

ok, when I had this problem... my injectors clicked too... I dont remember anything about the relay clickin.. it may just do that.. I dono.. but I know this might be hard but u gotta wait for that other ecu to come in that's the only way u can move on to the next idea.. trust me i know your frustration.. I have been there before. It's so hard to think about anything but what the Q@#%Q#%$! could be wrong with ur car.. right?

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

took the words(very profane)right outta my mouth,lol. thanks for sticking with me on this one though.

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

oh you're welcome... just can't wait to see the post where youre like ' I got it running!!!" It'll happen eventually. you'll figure it out.. it's just stressful.

User avatar
leroiboy
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm
Car: 1989 Nissan 240SX Coupe
Location: Atlanta,GA.

Post

ok check this out. just a minute ago when i was turning the cas by hand, one of the injectors must have worked and sent fuel down and was ignited. so the fact that this happened versus injectors not working at all even when i hotwired the pump, does this mean that, yes, the car was out of time as i described a bit earlier(about 4-6 posts ago)?

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 3:28 pm

Post

i'm kinda confused.. your motor was off but when you turned the cas .. some fuel ignited? What did that sound like? Well... if you turned your ign on and you dont hear the fuel pump prime.. how could there be any fuel up there to inject? You said you got it running with some starter fluid so it's in time


Return to “SR20DET Forum (rear-drive)”