Springs, coils, and tire input needed

[TDot]

So I'm taking care of both suspension and wheels. Picking up cv4 in a month or so. My suspension has never been changed so I'm going to take care of it all. I have two issues and I'm looking for people with very specific experience input.

1/ Springs vs coilover
2/ Continental vs anything else

1/ I spoke to three people today. My boy who has experience with installing and using bags, coilovers, and lowering springs (I trust his opinion), a body shop guy who's never steered me wrong (and he actually has eibach coils), and a custom mod shop where I'm buying the wheels from (he went from coils to springs). ALL three said no to coilovers and stick with lowering springs unless I'm doing track. They said the ride is much better overall. I don't recall seeing that being said here, a lot of people seem to want coils because its in...its hot...its what everyone is doing, my perception. I originally wanted D2rs myself because I thought it was the best on all points vs springs. So I'm looking for input specifically from people who have gone from springs to coils, or coils to springs on these cars specifically. How was the ride between the two? (Or people who have ridden in both enough to give an informative view). Money is not an issue, and being able to adjust it is not an issue as long as the springs settle where I want it. (I'm not looking to ride low or totally eliminate the gap, just want to reduce the gap and look classy like an Audi for instance)

2/ Tires. I don't want to, but I'm considering continentals. I don't want to because I generally think its too much for a tire. I know everyone who goes to them swears by them, but has anyone left them and found something better or equal for less?

[Ilya]

1) If I was to do it all over again (I'm dropped on BC Racing coilovers)...I would go springs. FAR less maintenance (no cleaning required, etc.). Also, the adjustment was a hassle to the point where I had to pay a shop to set the pre-loads/height for me. For whatever reason, I just can't get the concept (and I'm not dumb by all means lol). I've had lowering springs before and I gotta admit while my car handles better than it did on stock springs...it does NOT handle better than my previous cars with static drops.

But, I am an AWD owner so my choice of springs was limited which is partly the reason why I went with coils. Also...if I was to choose between coils, I'd pick D2's because the rear is a true coilover and not a hybrid like the factory stuff or the BC stuff (spring separate from the shock). That's just me though.

Also, because I am AWD, my BC kit is pieced together. D2 might be better for that reason. Meaning, my fronts are G35 front struts and my rears are M35 rear shocks. When I got them, I initially thought it was a mistake. They work, but it's not a perfect fit.

2) As for tires...I had two pairs of Continental ExtremeContact DWS's on my car before I got these Michelin Primacy MXM4's. I liked the Conti's a LOT except the tread life. Performance wise (BAD winters and summer) they were GLORIOUS. However, little caveat, I didn't rotate either set more than once...the Michelin's I've rotated every 5k. IMO, my next set will be one of the two...probably the one that is cheapest.


Those are my initial thoughts.

[wideopn11]

I had HKS coilovers on my RX7 twin turbo years ago. Getting them dialed in was a bit of a pain but the ride was great and I could soften or stiffen the ride depending on what I was doing that day.

I have lowering springs now on my M37 (AWD) and the only reason I didn't do coilovers was A) price and B) they weren't available for AWD at the time. The ride is good and handling is better. If the Eibach springs could lower me an inch or half inch more then I would be set but I'm considering switching out to coilovers just because. Access however to the rear means taking the seat out so wouldn't be able to make quick adjustments unless you leave the seat out for a while to dial it in and then leave it.

Tires: I've always had good luck with Yokohama. Currently I have the S drive 245/40/20 and no complaints.

[EniGmA1987]

I cant give input on the pros and cons of coils vs springs since I have not owned both myself. Tires however I do have this to say on the Continental DWS:

Initial ride comfort and handling is great. They are also pretty quiet. For the price they really seem like a great deal. About 50% of the way through their life (which you dont see reported on here) their handling characteristics start dropping off. By 25% life you actually need to be careful driving with them because you cannot take turns very fast at all and rain handling is very poor by this time. They are warrantied for 50,000 miles I believe (maybe the new version is not) but everyone has found they usually only last 20-25,000 miles in reality. Thankfully you can be pro-rated the remaining life towards a new set, making the next one very cheap. Having owned the Continental DWS, I would probably not get them again. They are however infinitely better than their cousin the DW. Ok that might be stretching it a bit, but the DWS is a much better tire than the DW and the only positive aspect of the DW I can say is that it is a quiet tire.

[szh]

If you do not ever drive in close-to-freezing conditions, then the Michelin Pilot Super Sport is an awesome tire to get. Yes, it is more expensive initially than the Continental DWS or the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, but I am amazed at the tread life so far!

I am now very confident that the "cost-per-mile" of these will end up better better than the DWS or the Pilot Sport A/S (although without any personal experience on the current model 3 - I used the original A/S). And the handling, stickiness, wet weather braking, quietness is far better to begin with, and stays better with miles.

The Super Sport will definitely be the next set of tires on my car again.

Z

[White-Rush]

If you do not ever drive in close-to-freezing conditions, then the Michelin Pilot Super Sport is an awesome tire to get.

Z

I second that. Had they been available in my current size, that's what I would be rolling now. Had them on my M35 and loved them.

As for the suspension, IMO IlyaKol pretty much sums up my thoughts in his first paragragh. Had there been a spring set available with a close to perfect ride height, that would have been my choice over coil overs. I'm a set it and forget it kind of guy. Once that perfect stance is found, I'm done.

Hope this helps a little.

[EniGmA1987]

If you do not ever drive in close-to-freezing conditions,

Is it really only if they are driven in those temps? I was told that the compound will actually freeze and change chemistry somewhat just being in freezing or near freezing temps and that is what makes the tire bad from then on.

[06M4.5]

I'm on my 2nd set of coilovers for my M, being able to dial your own stance is priceless. You just need to know what your doing. I can adjust each corner in less than 15mins on the ground and that including taking off the tire

If price wasn't so high I would give air suspension a try but for $5k it's not going to happen anytime soon, I already spent a ton on my M.

If your looking for a small drop H-Tech is the way to go, you'll even be very close to oem alignment. That's what I have as my back-up springs

A drop is like a stereo, you always want more out of it.

[szh]

If you do not ever drive in close-to-freezing conditions,

Is it really only if they are driven in those temps? I was told that the compound will actually freeze and change chemistry somewhat just being in freezing or near freezing temps and that is what makes the tire bad from then on.

Well, yes. But the danger does not matter unless you were to try to drive at those temperatures ... if the tire is frozen and you are not actually at speed (although parked on a hill might be an issue too, I suppose), it is not an issue.

Meaning, it is just that when you get close to freezing temps - like around 32 to 35 degrees F perhaps - the tire rubber hardens to the point where it does not flex much at all. Then, it acts like a billiard ball on a smooth surface - not much grip! Below 32, The silica added to the tire to provide hydrophilic (attraction to water) behavior of modern tires does not mean much in snow, since it is not liquid generally.

Once the temperature recovers to over 35 degrees F, the rubber (sidewall and tread) becomes pliable again and all is well again when driving.

Z

[TDot]

These are the specs I've found for springs I believe are compatible with the X version (if these are wrong, or there are other options, please let me know):

Eibach drops 1.6 Fr and 1.0 rear
TEIN S.Tech drops 1.8 Fr and 1.1 rear
TEIN High Tech drops 1.2 Fr and .5 rear
(I have to go out and measure what the result of these drops would be)

I think I'll go with the TeinH. So it's going to be TeinH vs D2RS Coils, leaning towards springs from the general response and research. The only thing I'm worried about with springs, besides final settle point, is bottoming out, which I understand is the principles of the mechanics in the difference between the springs and coils. Coils basically give a harsher/stiffer ride to prevent the bottoming out you get with the springs. The question is then, (I know its kind of subjective and based on driving style) how often do you (lowering spring guys) actually experience bottoming out? That's not directed at the guys who's road is paved with gold, only guys who live in war zone conditions like NY lol. And does bottoming out cause any type of damage overtime to parts beyond the struts?

As far as tires, if I lived in the south the Michelins would be a definite, but my climate is getting worse every year and stayed below 25' this year. I think I'm leaning towards Hankook S1 noble 2, especially with tread life being an issue with the continentals.

[EniGmA1987]

Aren't there bump stops on the struts/shocks to prevent damage from bottoming out? I know you can at least buy some aftermarket ones of varying sizes depending on your new clearance height.

[TDot]

I know nothing about this, just a guess on the mechanics from what you stated...if struts are designed for certain cars, they are designed with oem springs in mind, so I would think the bump stops that come with them would have to be upgraded to take into account for lowering springs. And this might be the reason people have issues with bottoming out. Or maybe when they say bottoming out they simply mean hitting the maximum point to hard and fast since its lowered. Now I have to go do research on bump stops as this is the first time I ever heard of this,

[wideopn11]

No issues bottoming out here with Eibachs.

[wideopn11]

"Coils basically give a harsher/stiffer ride to prevent the bottoming out you get with the springs"

Nope, coilovers can be be as soft or stiff as you like since they are adjustable. Most people set them stiffer for better performance and out of necessity depending on how low you go but you should be able to replicate pretty close to stock feeling with softer settings. The spring rates are generally higher than lowering springs but some coilovers offer pre-load as well as height adjustment. Anything will be stiffer than stock but coilovers give you options.

When I installed my Eibachs the OEM shocks and bump stops fit perfect. Check out my write up in the stickies.

[stm37s]

Does anybody have any experience with these guys? they seem to be quite popular, they say they drop your ride by .5 - 2.5 inches depending on your vehicle, and reading some of the reviews posted seems like they are pretty good, was thinking about eibach but want more than 1.2 in front and .8 in rear, would these be better than the eibach, not trying to do coil overs, all comments welcome, didn't mean to jack your thread bruh, just need some info, thanks fellas

http://www.autoanything.com/suspension- ... 7AodWB4AzA

[CPJ LB]

adding this to your thread as a reference for M35X on H-Techs....another NICO member "JDMLOVE" posted a thread on a different forum regarding his M35X build.

http://www.the370z.com/other-vehicles/4 ... hread.html

[TDot]

Ok, so this is what I'm buying. Let me know if I can get any of them cheaper please, or f I'm missing anything.

Vossen cv4 or cv5 20" = $2300
Hankook S1 Ventus Noble2 tires (4 x $177.47 + shipping) = $806.94
Front strut left = $103.31
Front strut right = $103.31
Rear struts (2 x $63.04) = $126.08
Tien H-Tech lowering springs = $217.79
SPC Upper camber control arms = $385
SPC Rear camber adjusters = $88
total = $4130.43

[Wangtang408]

I got these below along with my KYB shock/struts, not necessary but I just wanted everything new.

SM5482 - Rear Shock Mounting Kit
SB101 - Suspension Strut Elbow x4

[calidoso]

Anyone have any input on the espelir lowering springs? Looking to buy them and have them installed.

[calidoso]

bump

[Ilya]

What do you want to know about the Espelirs? It's a drop spring for the AWD...not much else to talk about...it's basically the ONLY complete option (without piecing stuff together) for the AWD guys who want a static drop (not coilovers).

[TDot]

Can someone tell me what the difference is, if there is one, between the 07 and 08 front strut set up on the x model? I thought the mechanics of the two years were the exact same. Then why have I been told here (don't remember the thread) that I cannot use kyb for the front struts and it states at many stores that they are good to go on the 07 X. Not trying to give infiniti 3x as much.

Thanks,

[Larz]

Ok, so this is what I'm buying. Let me know if I can get any of them cheaper please, or f I'm missing anything.

Vossen cv4 or cv5 20" = $2300
Hankook S1 Ventus Noble2 tires (4 x $177.47 + shipping) = $806.94
Front strut left = $103.31
Front strut right = $103.31
Rear struts (2 x $63.04) = $126.08
Tien H-Tech lowering springs = $217.79
SPC Upper camber control arms = $385
SPC Rear camber adjusters = $88
total = $4130.43

TDOT, you will be happy with the Hankook Ventus S1noble2. Tire Rack was running a special, maybe they still are. I had them shipped to the shop I use to install - ordered on Friday and they arrived at the shop on Tuesday. I also recommend the 255 size (maybe wider since you'reusing 20's). They make a big difference in appearance.

But i MUST say: No tire on this planet is as good as the Michelin Pilots. That was my last set and I have always used Michelins on all my cars, but these Ventus are the closest to Michelins hands down + they are virtually SILENT compared to my Pilots. The Continentals are loved by many on here and they are great in snow, but they are not all that great in wet and dry handling/braking compared to MIchelins and Ventus ... and Continentals begin to lose grip and feel before they are even half-used up. The only test left for me regarding the Ventus will be how they handle from 1/2 tread left to the end. If they don't conitnue to perform at or near the Michelins, then I'm sold on them - otherwise, I'm going back to Pilots for good.

[06M4.5]

Ok, so this is what I'm buying. Let me know if I can get any of them cheaper please, or f I'm missing anything.

Vossen cv4 or cv5 20" = $2300
Hankook S1 Ventus Noble2 tires (4 x $177.47 + shipping) = $806.94
Front strut left = $103.31
Front strut right = $103.31
Rear struts (2 x $63.04) = $126.08
Tien H-Tech lowering springs = $217.79
SPC Upper camber control arms = $385
SPC Rear camber adjusters = $88
total = $4130.43

you may not need the rear camber arms or bolts with the H-Tech springs, this would save you about $180 + installation. Even the X needs a little camber at the rear.

You may not even need the front camber arms as you may only be 1 -1.5 degree off alignment. This would save you about $385 + installation.

As for bump-stops just cut off 1/2" or 3/4" off and you'll be fine.