Second Motor Pull This Year, now N/A build time

[z32loverboy]

Well, per my last progress post I had engine swapped from my wreaked T-Top CRP Z to my new CRP Slicktop Z. That was over spring break and everything has went well since then. I had a fuel leak start this last week and it was a few days until I could get to fixing it as I'm taking 18 hours of school this semester as well as working. I parked my Z after getting home from school and fixed the fuel leak, all took about 20 minutes. Once i was done I cranked her to see if the leak was fixed and she started running as if a injector went out. Felt like a cylinder had just died. I Ohmed out the injectors, checked that I was getting spark and ran ECU codes(which threw a code 32). I repulled all my spark plugs after getting that code and Cylinder 5's plug had shiney grit all over it which was magnetic (you know what that means...). So, I parked the Z and pulled the motor today. In the process I drained the oil into a magnetic screen and caught all the metal out of the oil. Turns out I have a fair amount of metal shavings and well as bronze pieces coming from my oil. My best guess is that I blew the rings as well as a bearing somewhere.

Compression #'s:
Cyl. 1- 130psi
Cyl. 2- 130psi
Cyl. 3- 180psi (yes, double-checked by me and my mechanic friends)
Cyl. 4- 165psi
Cyl. 5- 60psi(Culprit)
Cyl. 6- 160psi

Cylinders 1 & 2 are low enough to worry me as well but they weren't throwing metal shavings on spark plugs either. I got it on a engine stand right now and will start pulling it apart this week outside of school and see how much damage has been done. Also my drivers side VTC valve broke the wires on it during the engine pull so I'll be replacing it as well as both motor mounts seeing as they completely broke in half once I lifted the motor out. There's oil all through the intake system as well, I'm hoping there hasn't been any valve damage from metal shavings in said oil. Only way to tell is by tearing it apart. I'll keep updates as I go. Yay for Z problems.

[NolimitZ32]

1st world problems huh, what'll ya do lol. That sucks man. I feel for you, if you followed any of my history you know that I've pulled mine multiple times. . . the engine out of the car that is you'll get her right man and in the process you'll become an expert on pulling that thing

[z32loverboy]

Yeah, I've kept up man. I think it took around 7 hours total to pull it out and disassemble enough to get it on a engine stand and label all the bolts that I didn't thread back into where they go. I feel like I'm pretty good at pulling the thing already, sadly. This'll be my first full engine rebuild but it's not rocket science, just nuts and bolts. Good thing is that I did the 180k maint. about 3k miles ago so I don't have to replace that stuff this time. If I wasn't in school this would take me about a week once my parts get here total between work and date nights. Good thing is I have two spare motors, one has blown headgaskets and one is completely disassembled so even if I have block damage I have spares. Though I have been throwing around the idea of throwing forged pistons in and boring it out anf getting a tune to throw down MOAR POWAHHHHHHHH. though with a n/a it wouldn't be huge power. Mostly more torque. I'll see how much disassembly I can get done tomorrow after school and homework.

[NolimitZ32]

I know how you feel, I started my swap senior year of highschool and got the car properly running (after 2nd and proper rebuild) about 6 months after I graduated college (6 years). It's alright man, just keep at it. I applaud the perseverance especially cause I know how hard it can be sometimes. When I did my swap initially and found out I had a bent rod it brought me to tears, in my driveway. But like you said it's just nuts and bolts so go get em.

[z32loverboy]

yeah, that's the plan. Where'd you get your rebuild parts at? I've been looking around and just about all I can find is rebuild kits with forged pistons and I don't think I can sling out that kinda money just yet. If i have to I can but I'd rather just rering the dang thing if I can.

[NolimitZ32]

I got all my stuff through IPP they were local and Kyle hooked me up. Having said that I have CP/Eagle/Cometic etc. Talk to Kyle at IPP he is usually very flexible and will put together a package for you that will match your needs. Before you go spending money make sure you get your bores blueprinted, would be a shame to go buy rings only to find out you need pistons too.

[z32loverboy]

You have to get them blueprinted to check if they're bad? I was just gunna check them for pitting, missing chunks and scratches.. local machine shop should be able to do that for cheap right? I'll call IPP when i get the engine apart and actually see what parts I need. How do I tell what grade of engine bearing to use? All of this engine internal crap is confusing. One major thing is I for sure have to get my crank blueprinted seeing as I have rod/main bearing pieces in my oil.

[NolimitZ32]

Blueprinted might sound scary, what I mean is gauge the bores per the FSM, check the overall bore, ensure the out-of-round and taper are in spec, etc. Basically if you have to take material off the bores to clean them (even if only honing) you may end up out of spec on the piston to bore clearance and may need bigger pistons. The FSM will be your best friend through this, read through the EM section and it'll explain what I'm talking about.

[nexus08]

Dang... I hate that for you. Good luck with it!

[z32loverboy]

Looks like my timing belt tensioner failed as well as my idler pullys. I pulled my upper intake and front timing covers as well as all the water pipes on the back and there are metal shavings all in my intake runners of my lower intake. When I pulled the front timing covers off my timing belt was loose enough to move back and forth about 1-2 inches. The motor isn't at TDC on cylinder 1 so I can't just look at the belt and see but with it so loose and all those parts failing I'm 99% sure it jumped time. I didn't see any broken valves though. I'll know for sure the farther I get into the engine. It's just difficult to make loads of progress at a time between school and work and the girl.

I haven't cracked open the FSM yet, it's all dis-assembly of stuff I've done before. Once I get all the timing stuff off I'll start referring to it though. More updates as I go and I may start posting pictures. I'm just very short on time during the week.

[z32loverboy]

Got the heads pulled tonight. Cylinder 5 has some major scratches on the cylinder wall right up at the top of the stroke. Haven't figured out which bearing blew yet. That'll be tomorrow night. Going to have to replace valves for sure, have metal shavings welded to the valves in a couple cylinders. Oh well. I'll get pics on here of it all eventually.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Got the pics yet? I have been waiting haha, I probably should have said I was subscribing for the pics.

[z32loverboy]

Sorry, It's been real stressful and busy this last week, haven't had time to get one. School, work, three vehicles down. My rebuild budget is looking to be around 2500-3k with machine work and all the parts I need. It's not just rings and bearings and a gasket kit. If i'm going to fix it, i'm gunna fix it once and do it right.

Here's how my motor sits now until I get parts. I'm going to have to use another engine block, this one is trashed.


This is why my engine blew.. Cyl. 5

What I don't understand is I didn't have any blown rings, no bearings that we're obviously shot with pieces missing or anything. My question is what the crap blew to put metal in the oil. I haven't exactly figured it out just yet.

[twinturbozxtacy]

possibly a bearing or just some dirt/grit. oil pressure could have jammed it behind a piston ring or something, idk. but just overbore the block dude, only the cyls would be bad and would need boring. even if the crank were marred get some .020 bearings and have that sucker polished and knife edged. unless you can find a block real cheap thats what id do, even then you would still need the machine work on the block you just bought if you really want to build it right!

[NolimitZ32]

^ this. Its fairly hard to tell the overall condition of the engine without touching it (in this case the sense of touch is more useful that sight. Have a knowledgeable machine shop look it over, it may be salvageable.

[z32loverboy]

It is salvageable but i have three total motors and I have a good spare block plus spare crank and rods and pistons and all that fun stuff. I would have to get new pistons if I bored my block over and I honestly can't afford to buy new pistons with everything I need to rebuild my motor. The parts alone are $2,200 for everything I need. My idler pullys failed, tensioner failed, crank sprocket needs replaced, I need new valves, freeze plugs, knock sensor, left vtc silinoid, I'm getting solid motor mounts, ECT..

One of my friends runs the machine shop so I'll get a decent deal on the motor work. Sadly I have the 30P valves so the intake valves are pitted and the coating is coming off the exhaust vales as well. The thing that blows my mind is I had metal shavings as well as bronze pieces in the oil but I have no idea where they came from, so I have a fairly good idea that it wasn't dirt/grit that scratched the cylinder wall. That's why I'm so confused on what blew my motor. Those scratches are fairly deep though, I can fit my fingernail in them. I might would have to sleeve the block.

[z32loverboy]

Well, I think I've decided to say screw it and dump money in this thing for the hell of it. What's the max you can bore one of these blocks over? cause imma do it. I'm thinking bore it over and throw the 1mm oversized valves in it and see how little power it's gunna make. The pistons that I have just sketch me out, they have obvious wear on them and I really don't like reusing worn parts. So, I may as well throw forged pistons in, and since I'd need wrist pins and rod bearings and such, may as well put some eagle rods in too. Only thing is, I'm pretty sure I'll need a tune to run halfway decent. I've been told I could go without it and be fine, what're you guys .02?

[NolimitZ32]

This is how it all starts and then 7 years and 15K later you have a SZ EXP-90 powered fire breathing monster.

[z32loverboy]

I know right. Sadly I don't have that kinda time frame. The longest this can take total is till December. After that I HAVE to have this car running. I'll be transferring to a four year school and this is my daily. That's the main reason I'm staying N/A, other than my budget won't support a TT/2j build. The plan is possibly sleeving the block, 88mm weisco pistons, eagle rods, 1mm ferrera valves, arp head and main studs, cometic HG, solid motor mounts. Everything else should be normal rebuild stuff with some mild machine work to the heads and block. My main question is with fuel supply. Basically will I need 370cc's or can the stock 220cc's hold that much airflow. I'm trying to keep the costs "manageable", if you can call it that.

I have some hookups that I may be able to use getting parts at a steep discount, so that's why all of this is on hold. I will be taking my block, crank, oil pan and heads to the machine shop this week. Probably Wednesday morning. Once I get word on parts, It'll be go time on slapping this beast back together.

[NolimitZ32]

The stock injectors on a NA are 270, and I don't think I've ever heard of anyone topping out their stockers on a NA. Since you don't have unlimited time and I'm going to guess unlimited funds I'd say you don't need injectors unless you want to upgrade to new style in which case go with 370cc just for piece of mind (you obviously will need a tune). This being said you can always change them out later in a weekend or so, it is a PITA but doable with basic tools in a day or two. Also think about this, If you are going to all the trouble to get bigger pistons, sleeve (which shouldn't be needed for 88mm pistons if the cylinder can be cleaned up), oversize valves, ARP hardware, MLS gaskets, solid mounts, and any other minor stuff you may want to slap on, you may as well look at building a TT with some potential and for the time being just freshen up one of your engines with all stock parts to keep the cost down because once you do all the work you are planning you'll be half way to a 500+ capable engine.

[z32loverboy]

Well, my plan is to build it N/A and I shouldn't have to do anything except slap turbo stuff on it. People build high compression turbo and supercharged motors all this time. I understand the difference in compression ratios will make a difference, but with the right machine work, quality parts, and careful timing and tune it won't matter. The only difference in how I would build a turbo motor would be compression ratios. I may not be able to handle huge turbos and a lot of boost with out changing the pistons for compression but it would handle 4-500 and stock to medium sized turbos and moderate boost. Even if that doesn't work, pistons and a gasket kit wouldn't be a unacceptably outrageous.

[NolimitZ32]

I hope it all works out for you, I just share my experience and the knowledge I've picked up through the years of battling . . erhm . . I mean building my Z. If you were to build a 10.5 to 1 turbo Z that would be sex. If you were to build the heads and balance everything to spin her to like 9k rpm that would be dirty pornstar sex with. If you could get it all to last for any respectable amount of time without boom, well that sir would make you the Z version of the Viagra-munching sex symbol we all love, the one we know as Hef.

[z32loverboy]

Haha I'll be attempting it eventually, all it is will be getting the heads, headgaskets, piston rings to hold the pressure and setting the timing right. It's the same as running a high boost motor. The tolerances are just extremely tighter for a high compression build. I've personally seen 11.5 to 1 turbo honda's (hate to compare the sex machine of a Z to that) but it's all the same concept.

I imagine if I can make this work like I think I can, it'll be make up sex with every stomp of the throttle.

[z32loverboy]

Well update time! I have my parts ordered. The big stuff is 88mm wiseco pistons, 1mm oversized valves, three angle deep valve job, arp head/main studs, clevite bearings and finally going with solid motor mounts (i'm sick of replacing stock ones). everything else is about 1800-2k of OEM replacement parts.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Well update time! I have my parts ordered. The big stuff is 88mm wiseco pistons, 1mm oversized valves, three angle deep valve job, arp head/main studs, clevite bearings and finally going with solid motor mounts (i'm sick of replacing stock ones). everything else is about 1800-2k of OEM replacement parts.

Cant wait for pics!

[z32loverboy]

Yeah, I got all the quotes and surprisingly Z1 gave me the best price. The parts haven't shipped out just yet, hopefully they'll ship soon.

[ZAddict32]

I'm in a similar situation and would like some advice from the z vets here if its not too much trouble. I have a TT build I've been working on for about a year now. I bout the car as a shell and the block and heads had been rebuilt with forged internals and turbos were rebuilt. Everything else was parts and bolts. About 8 months later I had everything put together and bought/ripped parts from my slicktop na (check out my part out!) Started car. Runs fine sounds good. Sounds a bit like a turbo'd lawn mower with no exhaust for those who don't know. Anyway, there was a puddle of oilon the ground because we forgot to put the dipstick tube in. Will never make that mistake again. Pulled motor. Put it back it finished everything up full exhaust and all. Ready to start the motor again. Start putting coolant in the radiator and about a gallon and a half later starts pouring out of the back of the block. Freeze plugs. I had honestly never heard of them before, and I'm thinking that's why the motor was pulled apart from prev owner. Moving on. Ordered freeze plugs, and I'm going to order some arp head studs, new oem head gaskets, and maybe a clutch/flywheel if budget permits. My sought advice is this: I'm in a position where someone is prepared to buy a car for me. Should I: get car, continue build. Request a partial investment in z to make sure I have everything I need and save the rest? Seems like a silly question but the person is hesitant at best on the z, but I may be able to convince her (my mom) its a better investment than a 4th car. (Tt, na, accord blown head gasket). All the car would really need after clutch and flywheel to be "like new" is sone interior work and a little paint. (Moms are generally more concerned with resale and reliability than performance... I know right?)
Any and all advice welcome. NoLimit i noticed you spent 6 years?

[z32loverboy]

well you should probably make you own thread for that kinda stuff. But I'm at the point where this is the only thing left that I haven't replaced with new or like new parts so I went with building this motor to be reliable, rather than punting it down the road. But I could also afford to foot the bill on it as well so. It's more or less a personal decision. If I was you, being in the car that far, I would go ahead and fix it right and be done with it, rather than going and buying someone else's problem child.

[ZAddict32]

I thought about that sorry didn't mean to jump into your thread. Appreciate the advice. I don't need much now so I think you're right. Good luck with your build!!

[z32loverboy]

Shanks, I got my rod & main bearings in, they shipped out the wrong pistons so it'll be a while before I get the real pistons. I don't wanna switch it 8.5:1 pistons just yet. Just gemme the stock N/A compression ones please. Nothing else has arrived yet but I don't really need it yet anyway till my pistons get in anyway.