I'm gonna start off saying that I work at a Nissan dealership and I'm gonna explain what I see on a daily basis and I will give you input from a dealer perspective. Fail safe happens when the transmission overheats. That's what it's designed to do. Cvt fluid level is a huge factor. I don't know if this has been covered but there is a special way to check the fluid. We use consult 3 and monitor a temp count. After the temp count is where it should be the fluid is set. The fluid is not set at the full mark though. If its set there it's overfull and will cause it to whine and go into fail safe. Usually when it whines it's because the fluid is aerated. The fluid is usually set in the middle of the crosshatch marks to 3/4 depending on fluid temp. This is why we see so many people with transmissions that are over full. Coolant protection is also a factor. There are tools out there to check freeze protection. Nissan recommends -34 degrees for proper cooling of the transmission. I seen some overheat at -48 degrees. I live in Colorado so it usually doesn't get that hot. The hotter the climate the easier the transmission will overheat if the coolant protection isn't set right. If your doing it yourself try to mix the coolant and water to -25 degrees. That would be more ideal. Seems to cool a lot better. And so everyone knows This is for all cvt equipped nissans. Rogues aren't the only one with these issues. Altimas and sentras have the same issues. Now if anyone has been in a front end collision And the radiator replaced make sure it's a Nissan radiator. Here is an example. Customer came in had the transmission replaced 30k miles ago. Transmission kept going into fail safe and whining. Level was good on the transmission but coolant protection was off. Set freeze protection where it should be and took on a long test drive. Same issue. Found out that it was in a front end collision 6 months earlier and a aftermarket radiator installed. Aftermarket radiators don't cool as well as oem ones. We replaced with a Nissan radiator and problem never came back. Now I have a 2005 Nissan altima. You better believe if my radiator cracks I will probably replace it with a aftermarket radiator because I don't have a cvt transmission. These transmission are so sensitive to heat its crazy. Now there are always times that it may need a transmission and if that's the case then it will be replaced. Usually when this happens a check engine light comes on or there are some codes stored In the ECM.

Now I want to talk about aftermarket fluids. Don't use them. There are some fluids out there that are suppose to be compatible but I wouldn't trust it. Talking to some of the engineers I have talk to said these aftermarket fluids Dont have the same qualitys and will cause the transmissions to overheat and or damage it. Plus at my dealership if you have different fluid and a transmssin concern you can kiss that warranty goodbye. Now I know people think that most dealerships think of ways to get out of warranty repairs. Well that's not all true. There are def some out there though. I get paid for warranty work. If I could replace a transmission daily under warranty I would. Thats how we get paid. Now nissans calls these things back to inspect to see what has failed. . If you cover something under warranty and Nissan calls it back then it had better have some sort of failure. If nissans finds out that it not they kindly send it back to us and charge us for the repair. It's really s*** sometimes even when it's Nissan fault. I see a lot of chrome pieces have tiny rust spots on them on a lot of armadas and pathfinders and Nissan won't warranty it. Nissan has charge the dealership I work for numerous times stating that it's not a defect when it clearly is. What I'm trying to say is that not all dealerships are trying to get out of warranty work. We do however have to protect ourselves so we don't get charged back for repairs. I hope the people on these boards can find trustworthy dealerships. From hearing some the of the stories on here it's no wonder why dealerships have bad names. In the meantime if anyone has questions own anything feel free to message me anytime.

Thanks for the great info Ddflosrt!! In the first part of your post were you saying "Negative 34 degrees and Negative 48 degrees? Or did you just put a hyphen in front to separate it? What coolant do you recommend and what tools can you use to test it?

Oh and welcome to the forum! Don't be a stranger!

Yes i did mean negative 34 degrees. The tool is called refractometer. You should be able to pick this up at any tool place.

Hey man, welcome once again to NICO.

Thanks for your awesome write-up. feel free to chime in anytime. NICO rogue threads are filled with mature, awesome adults. we appreciate guys like you adding to the wealth of info already on here.


(PS: i renamed your post, so its easier to find on here & google for people.)

I second that, welcome to the NICO Rogue forum and thanks again for the inside info on an issue that has baffled and frustrated many owners!!

So I think you've answered or partially answered a long-debated question that we've had:

"Is the high-rpm whining noise in hot weather something to be concerned with if it doesn't go into limp mode and appears to be operating properly?".

From what you've said above, the whining is caused by the tranny fluid becoming "aerated", or I'd call that "foaming" like when you overfill a crankcase. When lubricant becomes aerated and foams, it loses its lubricating properties and you get component damage. If the concept is the same with the CVT fluid as it is with engine oil, then the whining is not a good thing, it indicates that the CVT may be under-lubricated and wearing excessively.

I've gone at least 2 summers expericencing the whining noise on warm to hot road trips, the hotter the weather the louder the whining noise. I've never worried too much about it, mainly because its such a pain to try to prove to a tech that there is an issue.

Even though I've never gone into limp mode, would you suggest that I have my Nissan Service shop look in to this and re-adjust my CVT fluid level? I wish there was a tech service bulletin to reference, that would make life a lot easier because I'm pretty sure my shop won't know about this issue, in fact I did mention it to the service manager in passing once and he said he'd never heard of any CVT with that issue.

Any ideas are appreciated, thanks again.

EDIT: I did find a new Service Bulletin, it doesn't talk about diagnosing the whining noise without fail-safe mode, so no answers there. But it does talk about fail-safe mode when hot:

Summary of NTB12057:
SERVICE INFORMATION A Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) is designed to go into fluid temperature protection logic mode ("fail-safe mode") if the CVT fluid temperature rises above a certain threshold. When the CVT goes into fail-safe mode, engine performance is reduced. Customers may report this condition as "low power" or "reduced engine performance". While the CVT is designed to go into fail-safe mode if the fluid temperature rises above the threshold, the following conditions may causethe CVT to go into fail-safe mode prematurely during normal vehicle operation: 1. Overfilled CVT fluid level. 2. Incorrect type of transmission fluid - Use Genuine Nissan NS-2 CVT fluid. 3. Incorrect coolant/water mix. See this bulletin (startingon page 2) for more detail on each of the above conditions.

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I have only had a few issues with whining from the cvt after everything has been completed. We normally dont get that as a complaint after the repair has been completed. I also live in Colorado where it doesnt get to hot. Im sure if you lived somewhere like Vegas it would be totally different. There is a Tsb on having the right dipstick installed in the transmission. IF the wrong one is in there it could lead to overheating because it may be overfull. The nissan dealership should be able to measure to check to see if the right dipstick is in place. The ones we did have we had to drive on the highway for long periods of time. It never went into limp mode but did get a little whine to it. We never had a fix for it. Im sure its a issue where the dipstick is wrong and the fluid is slightly overfull. Nissan is def working on these issues.

That's good info, thanks a lot.

I think my whining CVT is getting worse. It used to only do it on long hot highway trips in the summer, but I took a 250 km road trip yesterday on a cooler spring day, around 10-15 degress C and it whined like crazy when the rpms were above 2500, and at below that you could hear a bit of a constant whine at highway speeds of 120kph. It's making me a little nervous, when mechanical things like pumps, generators etc. start to make a whining noise like that it usually means the bearings are shot and could seize up and fail soon. I can live with the CVT noise but not with a breakdown on the highway with my wife and two small kids.

If you have any more info on this "wrong CVT dipstick" issue and service bulletin describing it, please let me know.

kerrton wrote:I think my whining CVT is getting worse. It used to only do it on long hot highway trips in the summer, but I took a 250 km road trip yesterday on a cooler spring day, around 10-15 degress C and it whined like crazy when the rpms were above 2500, and at below that you could hear a bit of a constant whine at highway speeds of 120kph. It's making me a little nervous, when mechanical things like pumps, generators etc. start to make a whining noise like that it usually means the bearings are shot and could seize up and fail soon. I can live with the CVT noise but not with a breakdown on the highway with my wife and two small kids.

If you have any more info on this "wrong CVT dipstick" issue and service bulletin describing it, please let me know.

i just want to remind you that spinning things whine. including tires, bearings, etc. CVT's are known for the whining.

but i would take your tranny in and see what they can do for you. im thinking of taking mine in soon as well. even thought i have no assumptions except whine.

Yeah good point, the only thing that concerns me is that it didn't make this noise when new, and the noise seems to be getting worse. If it dies around town I don't care that much, tow it to Nissan and have them replace CVT under warranty and I get a brand new tranny. But if it happens far from home on the open road with two little kids that is something I need to avoid at all costs? I'll probably forget about until next year since winter temps are on their way and I don't drive highway much in winter anyway - when I mentioned it to my service manager a few months ago he was totally surprised and had never heard anyone describe that type of noise from any CVT, so mentioning it again will probably only frustrate me.

Let me know how it goes with your dealer if and when you bring it up.....

kerrton wrote:when I mentioned it to my service manager a few months ago he was totally surprised

i think thats apart of the training when being hired by a car dealership lol "IF ALL ELSE FAILS: ACT SURPRISED!" lol

Ha, you're right, that's probably the standard response for any problem that sounds warranty-related or may require some tough troubleshootin hours (i.e. a challenge). Most would much prefer to simply be a maintenance shop and charge high prices for fluid changes and visual check items, oh yeah and basic repairs like brakes where you just "replace everything"!!

If you are still having a whining sound I would def take back to the dealer. IF we see one that whines all the time there is a bearing that could be damaged and the transmission may need to be replaced. Altimas I beleive have a tsb on this. The cvt shouldnt be whining like that. I can probably find the tsb on the dipstick issue. The dealership you go to should have all that info though.

Ddflosrt wrote:If you are still having a whining sound I would def take back to the dealer. IF we see one that whines all the time there is a bearing that could be damaged and the transmission may need to be replaced. Altimas I beleive have a tsb on this. The cvt shouldnt be whining like that. I can probably find the tsb on the dipstick issue. The dealership you go to should have all that info though.

i dont go to the dealer, or any mechanic for anything aside from tire mounting. but the dealership i bought the car from, play's dumb, tries to make an idiot out of me, and are the types to tell me that my flux capacitor needs changing.

put it this way: i bought a brand new 2010 G37s coupe 6mt. about 2k miles into the car, and i heard a tiny rattle sound coming from the bell housing. i knew right away that either the input shaft bearing or the throw out bearing (or both) were shot. the dealer wanted to change the shift knob, thinking the sound will go away LOL it took 3 months, but a new tranny was finally installed.

That really sucks man. I do deal with other dealerships that are like that. Our Nissan Dealership has the highest retension numbers in our region. Thats how we do business here. We have a dealership close to us that wont do certain recalls. They say its dangerous. So they send the customers to us. Thats a terrable way of doing of business. I really hate dealerships like that and beleive me I see so many of them.

Sounds like you need to find a new dealer ImStricken? I too worked at a Lincoln/Mercury dealer for many years (looong ago now lol), but i agree there are many bad dealers out there, but not ALL of them are. You just have to ask around, try them out, etc... The service dept I worked in was always honest, and had the customers best interest. BUT the same goes for *all* auto shops, not just dealerships. always get a second opinion (unless it's someone you really trust).
I have never had any problems with my local Nissan dealer, and I scrutinize them fully :P

I thought dealerships wanted to do recalls and warranty work because they get paid directly from Nissan??

darylzero wrote:I thought dealerships wanted to do recalls and warranty work because they get paid directly from Nissan??

They have to wait for approval and reimbursement from Nissan, and if Nissan refuses to cover the repairs, the dealership eats the cost. While it may keep operating costs down for the dealership, it doesn't foster good customer relations.

darylzero wrote:I thought dealerships wanted to do recalls and warranty work because they get paid directly from Nissan??

not all dealers wanna get in involved with certain work. if they currently dont have a really experienced tranny guy, guess what = your not getting your work done. or if they simply dont want the hassle, they will find an excuse NOT to even get involved.

Another example of projects they don't want to touch are those that are very difficult to diagnose, or controversial as to whether there's a problem or not. Perfect example is this CVT whining noise that only occurs on hot road trips, and with mine and ImStricken's the noise does not seem to affect performance or reliability. So the tranny makes a noise which it probably shouldn't make, but does it indicate a real problem, does it mean the tranny is going to fail soon and leave us stranded? Or is it just a harmless noise that CVT's make sometimes?

In the absence of technical service bulletins from Nissan Engineering, or a lot of experience with failed units exhibiting this noise prior to failure, I can't say I really blame dealers for shying away from this one because I believe they honestly do not know how to deal with this. If they replace the tranny because of the whining noise and upon disassembly Nissan decides that that the CVT was not defective, then the dealership is out a lot of cash.

I'm not defending the dishonest dealers who are profit-driven and don't put their customers first. What I am saying is I believe my dealership when they tell me they don't know how to deal with the whining other than to say the CVT is operating within spec. That excuse is only good for so long, they should be investigating and getting support from Nissan to at least determine the cause and the appropriate reaction when these complaints come in.

kerrton wrote:So I think you've answered or partially answered a long-debated question that we've had:

"Is the high-rpm whining noise in hot weather something to be concerned with if it doesn't go into limp mode and appears to be operating properly?".

From what you've said above, the whining is caused by the tranny fluid becoming "aerated", or I'd call that "foaming" like when you overfill a crankcase. When lubricant becomes aerated and foams, it loses its lubricating properties and you get component damage. If the concept is the same with the CVT fluid as it is with engine oil, then the whining is not a good thing, it indicates that the CVT may be under-lubricated and wearing excessively.

I've gone at least 2 summers expericencing the whining noise on warm to hot road trips, the hotter the weather the louder the whining noise. I've never worried too much about it, mainly because its such a pain to try to prove to a tech that there is an issue.

Even though I've never gone into limp mode, would you suggest that I have my Nissan Service shop look in to this and re-adjust my CVT fluid level? I wish there was a tech service bulletin to reference, that would make life a lot easier because I'm pretty sure my shop won't know about this issue, in fact I did mention it to the service manager in passing once and he said he'd never heard of any CVT with that issue.

Any ideas are appreciated, thanks again.

EDIT: I did find a new Service Bulletin, it doesn't talk about diagnosing the whining noise without fail-safe mode, so no answers there. But it does talk about fail-safe mode when hot:

Summary of NTB12057:
SERVICE INFORMATION A Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) is designed to go into fluid temperature protection logic mode ("fail-safe mode") if the CVT fluid temperature rises above a certain threshold. When the CVT goes into fail-safe mode, engine performance is reduced. Customers may report this condition as "low power" or "reduced engine performance". While the CVT is designed to go into fail-safe mode if the fluid temperature rises above the threshold, the following conditions may causethe CVT to go into fail-safe mode prematurely during normal vehicle operation: 1. Overfilled CVT fluid level. 2. Incorrect type of transmission fluid - Use Genuine Nissan NS-2 CVT fluid. 3. Incorrect coolant/water mix. See this bulletin (startingon page 2) for more detail on each of the above conditions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

where are these service bulletins found. i want to show my dealer this one.

Thanks

You need to have a paid subscription to download the bulletin, your dealer would be the source for these. You can look up the short synopsis of the TSB's and recalls at:

nissan-techinfo.com.

When you go to your dealer, just reference the above document number "NTB12057", they can bring that document up in full detail for review.

kerrton wrote:You need to have a paid subscription to download the bulletin, your dealer would be the source for these. You can look up the short synopsis of the TSB's and recalls at:

nissan-techinfo.com.

When you go to your dealer, just reference the above document number "NTB12057", they can bring that document up in full detail for review.

Many Thanks !!!!

First, I would like to thank Ddflosrt for his insight and technical assistance to this forum. Since you work at the dealer and see all the issues with the CVT transmission and I know Nissan manuals says the CVT fluid will last the lifetime of the transmission. Would you suggest changing the CVT fluid on a regular basis and at what mileage. In the manual the specs states that it will take 8.3 quarts of oil. Is this the actual amount of oil it will use during the fluid change or is this the amount used for an empty transmission.

At the dealership I work at the intervals for cvt fluid change is every 30,000 miles. We do a drain and fill only. We usually use 5 quarts of fluid. Keeps the cost down for the customer. If the fluid hasnt been done in 90K or so we usually suggest a flush at that time. We get these intervals out of the nissan maintenance manual. Also Nissan changed there brake fluid flushes to every 15k lol. Damn Nissan.

Ddflosrt wrote:At the dealership I work at the intervals for CVT fluid change is every 30,000 miles. We do a drain and fill only. We usually use 5 quarts of fluid. Keeps the cost down for the customer. If the fluid hasn't been done in 90K or so we usually suggest a flush at that time. We get these intervals out of the Nissan maintenance manual. Also Nissan changed there brake fluid flushes to every 15k lol. Damn Nissan.

Hmm, I just had mine in for an oil change/tire rotation with just over 21k miles. They hit me up for an alignment but said nothing about the brake fluid.

Ddflosrt wrote:At the dealership I work at the intervals for cvt fluid change is every 30,000 miles. We do a drain and fill only. We usually use 5 quarts of fluid. Keeps the cost down for the customer. If the fluid hasnt been done in 90K or so we usually suggest a flush at that time. We get these intervals out of the nissan maintenance manual. Also Nissan changed there brake fluid flushes to every 15k lol. Damn Nissan.

Appreciate the inside perspective of this thread. I am probably going to change the CVT myself. It seems that many CVT owners are reluctant to do that due to the threat of a cancelled warranty. It is my understanding that the law is that it must be proved that your actions caused the failure, have these steps been taken in your experience or are people being too cautious? I would only be using Nissan fluid. It seems that going the DIY route would still be over $100. Just called a dealer and their price is $170. Looks like they put all their markup in the fluid rather than their labor. That dealer also doing the 30k interval citing our heat as the reason.
(Car has 87k)

Rogue One wrote:They hit me up for an alignment but said nothing about the brake fluid.

since everyone brakes differently, everyone's pads & fluids age differently.

take a look at your fluid reservoir. what color is the fluid? Brake fluid starts off nearly clear with a light yellowish tint. As it is used the fluid will darken and become dark brown in appearance. generally once a year, to once every two years is fine to change that fluid.

good versus bad (i have seen plenty that turned passed the syrup brown, and into coffee black. dont let it get to that)

ImStricken wrote:

Rogue One wrote:They hit me up for an alignment but said nothing about the brake fluid.

since everyone brakes differently, everyone's pads & fluids age differently.

take a look at your fluid reservoir. what color is the fluid? Brake fluid starts off nearly clear with a light yellowish tint. As it is used the fluid will darken and become dark brown in appearance. generally once a year, to once every two years is fine to change that fluid.

good versus bad (i have seen plenty that turned passed the syrup brown, and into coffee black. dont let it get to that)

How about a how-to for bleeding your brakes?