What do you guys think of this stuff?


Link to website: http://www.redtek.ca/

Description:

RED TEK® 12a, a HC-based refrigerant from Thermofluid Technologies, is a blend of environmentally safe hydrocarbon fluids designed as a direct replacement and retrofit refrigerant option for replacing R134a and R12 refrigerants in automotive air conditioning and refrigeration systems. 12a operates at lower head pressures and offers improved cooling properties and performance verses R134a and R12.

BENEFITS

Operation: RED TEK® 12a possesses similar volumetric refrigerating effects to R12 or R134a refrigerants. Operates at lower head pressures and offers improved cooling properties, performance and energy efficiency verses R12 or R134a. Can be used effectively in R12 or R134a refrigeration systems without major "retrofitting."

Lower Cost: Less expensive than R12 refrigerant and R134a "retrofits". Energy savings up to 30%.

Compatibility: Compatible with most common refrigeration materials and lubricants including R134a, R12, metal components, mineral and synthetic(Ester and PAG) lubricants, seals, gaskets, hoses, compressors, and o-rings.

Environment: 100% natural organic refrigerant, non-ozone depleting, non-global warming. 12a is in full compliance with the UN Montreal Protocol.

Safety: Does not become caustic when contaminated with moisture or oxygen. Non-toxic, non-carcinogen, autoignition temperature above 1385F. No long term health risks have been attributed to RED TEK® 12a refrigerant.

R12 and R134a have very different properties, so I am suspicious that one substance has the properties of two different ones.

What's in it?

Looks like a good product. I wonder how much it costs? I miss my R-12. This R-134a doesn't cut it much in the hot summers. My first car had R-12 and the ac got close to 30degrees.

The real risk is to warn AC technicans that they cannot use their R12 or R134a equipment. on your vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you cause them to contaminate $1,000 worth of R12 and spend $3,000 to overhaul their equipment they just might torch your vehicle with you in it.

If you use any non standard gases you must have your own gauge set, and vacuum pump to service in future.

Having been BURNED in the past we always test new R12 customers first but many shops don't.

A local store called Canadian Tire, which is similar to a Pep Boys sells the products. Here is an ad from this week's flyer:

Most of these substitutes are very flamable and toxic. Sounds like a mix of propane and R134.

Kinda makes me nervous to ever get a vac/recharge ever again......who knows what the previous customers system has contaminated the shops machine with, this crap, or something worse?.......kind of why I shy away from the transmission exchange machine also, as you never know what leftover fluid is in the lines/machine from previous customer, and 99.9% of shops dont care enough to flush/clean machine/lines between customers

You bring to light some interesting points qship. Food for thought. I have planed my bi-annual A/T flush w/BG mach. & BG syn. fluid this fall. Will ask them to flush lines prior to attaching mach.

I read every word of there product page. How did you deduce that propane was a component of this? What did I miss?

We spemt $3800 for a machine that tests samples of AC gas prior to connecting our AC equiptment. Specifically looks for Propane and the 9 other gases frequently blended.

Q45denver wrote:Most of these substitutes are very flamable and toxic.

Let's see, hydrocarbon? Wouldn't that include things like wood, coal and petroleum?

qship96 wrote:kind of why I shy away from the transmission exchange machine also, as you never know what leftover fluid is in the lines/machine from previous customer, and 99.9% of shops dont care enough to flush/clean machine/lines between customers

That was a good belly laugh! Pretty easy to determine with a visual inspection.

Hope you never need a blood transfusion, Mr. Paranoid. Hope I never do either. But when it comes to death or felling lucky, most try feeling lucky. Kind of like transmissions.

qship96 wrote:Kinda makes me nervous to ever get a vac/recharge ever again......who knows what the previous customers system has contaminated the shops machine with, this crap, or something worse?.......kind of why I shy away from the transmission exchange machine also, as you never know what leftover fluid is in the lines/machine from previous customer, and 99.9% of shops dont care enough to flush/clean machine/lines between customers

I thought anybody with common sense TELLS the people to purge the system before they start the exchange. That's exactly what I did when I brought them my M1 ATF. I stood there and watched them purge the system, then take the cap off and pour my 15qts into the system. Hell, I was kinda upset knowing that some of my good M1 ATF was in the system Oh FYI since we are speaking about tranny fluid....SuperTech have came out with Dex-VI atf. I know many already knew that, but a lot of people kept away from it because they didn't think it was licensed but it is. When I do my flush within another 30k, I will use this product.

[QUOTE=maxnix]That was a good belly laugh! Pretty easy to determine with a visual inspection.

Brian, explain how you visually put your eyeball up the exchange machine hoses to see if there is the wrong type of red atf left over from the last chrysler customers service?

Add to that, unless you are using a quickie lube type operation {which leaves another set of unknowns, including tech incompetance}, chances are you will not even SEE the machine and its condition because either you wont be allowed back in the service area, or you will have to drop off your car for service and leave it for the day

Why just rolling up your sleves and doing the 6 drain/fills yourself seems a safer way to accomplish the same goal.....at least there is NO risk of fluid contamination, tech error, or any other unknown........ and the $100-150 you save can be used for other things, like a steak dinner for 2?

[QUOTE=maxnix

Hope you never need a blood transfusion, Mr. Paranoid. Hope I never do either. But when it comes to death or felling lucky, most try feeling lucky. Kind of like transmissions. [/QUOTE]

WOW, the difference is one is a necessary, unavoidable risk, with no alternative procedures available......and the other is NOT!!!! Its all about limiting your exposure to un-necessary risks

qship96 wrote:Brian, explain how you visually put your eyeball up the exchange machine hoses to see if there is the wrong type of red atf left over from the last chrysler customers service?

Add to that, unless you are using a quickie lube type operation {which leaves another set of unknowns, including tech incompetance}, chances are you will not even SEE the machine and its condition because either you wont be allowed back in the service area, or you will have to drop off your car for service and leave it for the day

Supply bladders and reservoirs are empty. Think about it. With wildly incompatible ATF formualtions, they have to be. Even if only 2% of wrong fluid were present, better than the 60% contaminated fluid remaining after a simple dealer approved drain and refill.

"Never a qucikie, always a longie!" - George Hamilton as Dracula in Love At First Bite

Come to think of it, I have two filets I have to cook tonight.

maxnix wrote:Supply bladders and reservoirs are empty. Think about it. With wildly incompatible ATF formualtions, they have to be. Even if only 2% of wrong fluid were present, better than the 60% contaminated fluid remaining after a simple dealer approved drain and refill.

"Never a qucikie, always a longie!" - George Hamilton as Dracula in Love At First Bite

Come to think of it, I have two filets I have to cook tonight.

Keep telling yourself the machine and lines are empty and clean from the last customers service.....repeat it often enough in your mind, and you may actually believe it! The mind is a powerful thing.

Who said anything about a single drain/fill?... Oh yeah, you did to try to prove your point........ I said 6 drain/fills to get 85+% new ATF in the system

Of course, for those too lazy or incompetant to perform the multiple drain/fills....... the machine exchange is a good alternative {great for soccer moms, your grandparents, teenage daughtor, or the metrosexuals afraid to mess up their manicured hands}

qship96 wrote:Of course, for those too lazy or incompetant to perform the multiple drain/fills....... the machine exchange is a good alternative {great for soccer moms, your grandparents, teenage daughtor, or the metrosexuals afraid to mess up their manicured hands}

Or for those who just don't feel like getting up under their car those many times. Don't get me wrong, your method is a PROVEN method, I just don't have time for that and another thing is that I stay in a apt. I hate, truly hate the fact that I have to pay for labor of an oil change now and days. When I was in college, I was 30min away from my parents home, and I could change my own oil when I went to visit them.

I called the company and asked them some questions and here is what they said:

maxnix wrote:R12 and R134a have very different properties, so I am suspicious that one substance has the properties of two different ones.

What's in it?

Hydrocarbon based.

NightRiderQ45 wrote:This R-134a doesn't cut it much in the hot summers. My first car had R-12 and the ac got close to 30degrees.

Vent air in the 40s and lower head pressure which in turn is better for the life of the compressor and condenser.

Q45tech wrote:The real risk is to warn AC technicans that they cannot use their R12 or R134a equipment. on your vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If you cause them to contaminate $1,000 worth of R12 and spend $3,000 to overhaul their equipment they just might torch your vehicle with you in it.

If you use any non standard gases you must have your own gauge set, and vacuum pump to service in future.

Having been BURNED in the past we always test new R12 customers first but many shops don't.

There has been thorough testing performed and R12a is fully compatible and can be used on R12 or R134a equipment.

Q45denver wrote:Most of these substitutes are very flamable and toxic. Sounds like a mix of propane and R134.

R12a has no propane and is not falmmable or toxic. In crash tests, it did not ignite when others have.

They have been around for 7 years.

They recommend to evacuate first then recharge. One can top off if they choose to though.

The kit that is shown in the above post comes with 2 cans of R12a refrigerant, charging hose and gauge, oil analyser, reto fittings, installation guide and system decal.

Weight equivalent chart:http://www.redtek.com/win_12a_weightequiv.html

Charging / installation guide:http://www.redtek.com/win_12a_chargeinstall.html

Is it legal for sale/use in the US?

This is the U.S. Distributor info taken from their website:

Thermofluid Technologies, Inc.P.O. Box 1114Alcoa, TN 37701

Phone: Toll Free 1-888-676-9380Local: (865) 983-1633

Fax: Toll Free 1-888-667-0695Local: (865) 983-0068

Our Sales Representatives are available to assist you for customer calls, training your staff, product forecasting and for scheduling and promoting field clinics.

Why would you downgrade from Mobil1 atf currently in your transmission to SUPERTECH atf??????

Save the supertech for the hyundai and daewoo drivers trying to save a few pennies - supertech is just the B grade runoff from major manufacturers that doesnt meet their own brand standards

qship96 wrote:Why would you downgrade from Mobil1 atf currently in your transmission to SUPERTECH atf??????

Save the supertech for the hyundai and daewoo drivers trying to save a few pennies - supertech is just the B grade runoff from major manufacturers that doesnt meet their own brand standards

Because I read a great post from TexasOil concerning M1 synthetic atf. He stated that it is HIGHLY oversold. He said that regular Dex-III had up to 50% of the synthetic molecules and additives needed because of the heat. Since we all know that Dex-VI is way better than Dex-III, I'm going to go with that product.

Also after reading YOUR own old post where you asked if M1 atf was still synthetic, Q45Tech gave this great answer...

Q45tech wrote:Hydrogenated oil is synthetic [man made by definition], the question is were does base oil come from [sulfur residual] and how homogenous is the molecular size AFTER the process.

100% synthetic main benefit is ALL the molecules are the same size in base oil so you can fine tune the bearing film size.

Not sure this is so critical in ATF, where ATF has such a high percentage of complicated additives.

The red dye tells you most of what you need to know.......when the color changes minutely [red begins to wash out/lose intensity] the ATF has begun to oxidize from heat........time for a change whether that is 10,000 miles or 20 or 40k.

I change mine annually now that I use generic ATF [bulk Valvoline]........BG flush and ATF exchange......Lubeguard {red}.........the 3rd tranny now has almost 60k [in 3 years]..........I don't want a 4th.[/

Thats why I'm going to switch to Dex-VI. Hey, I got all the way to 173k on tranny using regular Dex-III atf, NOT synthetic M1 atf. I just switch to M1 aft at 173k.

Good point. I still think M1 is a better product than the ST, and will hold up better/longer. I bet M1 has a dex vi fluid about to hit the market

I used to be a firm believer in M1 oil and M1 atf {I still think they are better than most}, however I switched to Redline both for oil and atf/gearlube at around 100,000 miles after talk of Exxon cheapening the mobil 1 line after the 2 companies merged { m1 has gone from a group 4 base to a blend of group 3 and 4}

Between the 2 fluids, I have been able to enjoy a long engine and original transmission life so far {212,000 miles}, with both still performing extremely well.

qship96 wrote:Good point. I still think M1 is a better product than the ST, and will hold up better/longer. I bet M1 has a dex vi fluid about to hit the market

I used to be a firm believer in M1 oil and M1 atf {I still think they are better than most}, however I switched to Redline both for oil and atf/gearlube at around 100,000 miles after talk of Exxon cheapening the mobil 1 line after the 2 companies merged { m1 has gone from a group 4 base to a blend of group 3 and 4}

Between the 2 fluids, I have been able to enjoy a long engine and original transmission life so far {212,000 miles}, with both still performing extremely well.

They should be about to come out with Dex-VI product. Of course, I truly feel that M1 synthetic aft will be better than ST Dex-VI, I just figured that it will be a great product since it's licensed plus better than Dex-III. I mean, Dex-III did get me to 173k...

I kind of fell off of the Mobil 1 band wagon after I joined BITOG and soaked up sooo much valuable information about M1. M1 5w-30 oil not Extended Performance is giving horrible UOA's on multiple cars there. After they went to the cheaper formulation...that didn't help their case with me either.

I mean, after XOM made a profit of 40 billion lastyear, you would think that their products will be getter better as time goes on huh.

Hello Folks!

I am Patrick North President and CEO of The RedTek Store the only Mid Atlantic Distributor of RedTek12a Refrigerants.

I got involved with RedTek12a in 2004 when I was looking for a direct replacement for the R134a Refrigerant that was in my 1987 Buick. Over the years I would always have leaks as well as Compressor, Dryer,Condensors going up every two years as a result of r134a.

I found out that r134a turns to sulfuric acid and we all know what that does to metal.

I purchased a RedTek12a Kit and can of Proseal and placed it in the empty system. Wow the temp was 45 degrees on the highway. My system has never leaked and the new owner told me that it was still cold 3 years later without leaking out.

In 2012 R134a will be banned by the EPA do to Environmental issues. This Hydrocarbon Based product is one of a kind and the coldest product on the market. It is a strait hydrocarbon based product with no other additives added unlike the other products on the market.

This Product is on the Leading Edge of the Market Place. I highly recommend this product to all vehicle owners.

If your interested in purchasing this product please visit http://www.redtekstore.com , we are also seeking Independant Distributors to market our products in your area. If interested Please call 866-794-0090 ext 5 to sign up today!!

http://www.redtekstore.com

Pat -

Welcome aboard.

Please, there's no need for 7 posts in a row. That's called spamming, and it's poor netiquette. Also, if you'd like to sell your stuff here, you'll need to follow the same rules as everyone else and become an approved advertiser.

Also:

TheRedTekStore wrote:In 2012 R134a will be banned by the EPA do to Environmental issues.

This is inaccurate, misleading, and wrong.

EPA has finalized a rulemaking (69 FR 11946; March 12, 2004 (PDF, 485 KB)) that does not include a restriction on the sale of HFC refrigerant R-134a. EPA has limited the sales restriction to refrigerants that contribute to depletion of the stratospheric ozone layer, including HFC blends containing an ozone-depleting substance (e.g., FRIGC FR-12, Free Zone, Hot Shot or R-414B, GHG-X4 or R-414A, and Freeze 12).

HCFC-22 is also referred to as R-22 or by one of its trade names, Freon® 22. It is a popular refrigerant that is commonly used in a variety of refrigeration and air-conditioning equipment. Starting January 1, 2010, the production and import of HCFC-22 for newly manufactured equipment will stop in the United States. The production/import limit will be set at a level that is suitable for servicing existing equipment.

TheRedTekStore wrote:I found out that r134a turns to sulfuric acid and we all know what that does to metal.

Also not true.

I think you're thinking of the fact that water + refrigerant will create hydrofluoric acid. But ANY moisture in ANY refrigerant system will do damage.

Let's not throw any more "Chicken Little" scenarios at people. We do our homework here, Pat.

More info on 12a refrigerants: http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/....html

I noticed that the debate between r12 and r134a has been big and manipulating, though is not much different on a molecular basis. the change from r12 to 134a was the around time when the patent on the r12 was about to expire. so dupont made r134(not much different than r12) and a new patent for r134a and somehow was able to persuade Gov.(or EPA) to outlaw the use of r12.( maybe because its environmental damage but also the underlying expiring patent which will allow anyone to produce r12 refrigerant with out having to pay licensing or permission to produce and have cheaper competing prices for the gas) though the molecular structure of r134a has similar or the same effect on environment as r12.

so anyone of you who do own a/c repairs or engine swaps that require disconnection of a/c system be aware that the gas either r12 or r134a has the same effects when let out in to the atmosphere

whatever the differences i cant drive with out a/c during the summer.

Thanks for sharing this useful as well as interesting post with us!!!

Propane is flammable. Cools like a big dog, until it mixes with oxygen and a spark.