radiator question...

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Wiggler
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Hello again people...

From the hose connection side, does anyone know which one of the transmission fluid ports on the VH41DE radiator is the inlet and which is the outlet?? I would turn the ignition and see which hose it spills from, but the radiator is out and I haven't drained the block of coolant, so I don't want a mess on my garage floor...

Thanks.


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Q451990
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It looks like the inlet is on the passenger side...

Check out this TSB
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M9Hn ... sp=sharing

Heath

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Wiggler
Posts: 222
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Owner: Funny, BROWN, Bald South Asian
Location: North westsiieede! San Antonio, TX

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Thanks Heath... I wanted to clean out the tank that the fluid goes through... any ideas on an auto parts store chemical cleaner, or MUST I stick to the Nissan cleaner from the dealership?

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Q451990
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I'd be tempted to use a can or two of brake parts cleaner followed by compressed air to make sure it's all evaporated, but that's just my first thought on it. If there's a commercially available ATF cooler cleaner, that's probably the way to go.

Heath

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Wiggler
Posts: 222
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1999 Wht Toyota Avalon XLS 200k!! (CHUBBS)
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Owner: Funny, BROWN, Bald South Asian
Location: North westsiieede! San Antonio, TX

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Thanks Heath,
After doing some online research, I found a bottle of this stuff at my local NAPA. Idiot auto parts had no clue about what it even was. I cleaned the cooler with it, following the procedure in the bulletin you attached. connect the can to the outlet, and collect the flush matter through the inlet side.

Image

But after flushing the cooler, I noticed that there was next to no particulate matter in the collection jug... (ignore the little black dots, those are on the outside of the container) Now, at this point... judging from the clarity in this picture, do you think it might still be worthwhile to flush all the fluid? Or just connect the radiator back again? I did a drain and fill three times over the last year.

Image

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Skibane
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Did I miss a thread about your transmission blowing up or something?

If not, why are you flushing the cooler?

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Wiggler
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Car: "WHITE BOYS CLUB"
1999 Wht Toyota Avalon XLS 200k!! (CHUBBS)
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2001 Wht Subaru Forester 115k (JUNIOR)
Owner: Funny, BROWN, Bald South Asian
Location: North westsiieede! San Antonio, TX

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Hey Ski!! It's about time you showed up! Where you been man? I've been trying to figure out how to PM you, I don't think you have it enabled.

Anyway... no tranny blow up... not yet anyway, I hope. I decided to take a page out of your playbook and install an external cooler, I am getting some shudder between 2nd and 3rd on inclines. I thought a cooler would help in our summers here. Since I wanted to install it in front of the condenser, I took the radiator out and just decided to flush the cooler to see how much dirt was in it, if there was a lot of crap in there, then I was going to do a "soft" flush of all the fluid...

here's some pics...

Image

I had to extend the driver side fan in front of the condenser for clearance. Home Depot M6 long bolts and 1 inch nylon spacers to the rescue!!! I couldn't secure all four sides of the fan, because one was an opposite facing bolt coming out of the frame, as you can see in the next pic, but three out of four is still ok..

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LOOK!! Just enough clearance for the plastic cover between headlights to reinstall!! How about that?? :cheers:

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A guy at AAMCO transmissions told me that if I use regular Dexron III/Mercon, like it says I could do in the owners manual, I should use a friction modifier, which apparently is in the Matic - D fluid from Nissan... So I'm going to try some of this stuff too...

Image

I'll let everyone know if it works or not...

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Wiggler
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1999 Wht Toyota Avalon XLS 200k!! (CHUBBS)
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2001 Wht Subaru Forester 115k (JUNIOR)
Owner: Funny, BROWN, Bald South Asian
Location: North westsiieede! San Antonio, TX

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Hey Ski, what kind of setup did you employ in your tranny cooler install?

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Skibane
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I used a Flex-A-Lite #FLX-3820 7.5 x 21.5 x 0.75" transmission cooler kit from Summit Racing...

Image

and Perma-Cool #PRM-10678 ATF spin-on remote filter kit (also from Summit).

Image

The cooler is mounted between the A/C condenser and radiator (with the idea being to avoid dumping transmission heat into the A/C).

Image
(Shown with radiator removed).

I was really glad that I pulled the radiator during the install, because this is what I found on the hidden side that faces the A/C condenser:

Image

I used right-angle hose barbs to route the ATF cooler lines outside the fan shroud...

Image

The ATF filter is mounted to a bumper brace in front of the electric fans, with a few more right-angle hose barbs to keep the hoses neatly located.

Image

Originally, the ATF in-the-radiator cooler was retained, and was connected in parallel with the new cooler I installed. However, i disconnected the in-the-radiator cooler when I installed a new radiator last year, so all ATF cooling is now handled by the Flex-A-Lite cooler. Either way, it seems to cool very well - you can put your hand on the ATF filter without it getting uncomfortably hot.

Right after the install, I replaced the ATF filter in the transmission pan, had the entire system power-flushed, and replaced the original ATF with Mobil 1 Synthetic.

I'm happy with the way it feels when it shifts, so I haven't used any ATF additives.

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Wiggler
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:12 am
Car: "WHITE BOYS CLUB"
1999 Wht Toyota Avalon XLS 200k!! (CHUBBS)
1999 Wht Infiniti Q45t 102K (TANK)
2001 Wht Subaru Forester 115k (JUNIOR)
Owner: Funny, BROWN, Bald South Asian
Location: North westsiieede! San Antonio, TX

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That is one Hardcore setup Ski!... I'm using the existing cooler in the radiator too, then putting the external cooler as a secondary... Eeek!! I hope that I'm not going to get too much extra heat into the condenser!!! I'm more concerned about the tranny though... I don't drive this car too much, so hopefully I won't overheat the A/C system... I was going to install an inline WIX filter too... but the transmission shop guys said that it impedes the flow a little too much, and might create what they called a "whirlpool" effect in the lines... any thoughts on that? Also, I can never get accurate readings on the dipstick... I drained an extra 2 qts of fluid, and after sitting on a level surface for two weeks, it still shows way above the mark...just to be sure... is the dipstick the most accurate way to measure how much is in there??? Every time I did a drain and fill, I replaced exactly what came out... but what if it was overfilled to begin with??? :help:
Image

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Skibane
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Wiggler wrote:I was going to install an inline WIX filter too... but the transmission shop guys said that it impedes the flow a little too much, and might create what they called a "whirlpool" effect in the lines... any thoughts on that?
Several other NICO members had the same concern when I described the modification, so I temporarily connected a pair of pressure gauges - One in the line coming from the transmission, and the other in the line going back to the transmission. All measurements were made while driving on the road.

Here's the factory arrangement (in-the-radiator cooler only, no filter installed):
Image

Here's the modified arrangement (original and aftermarket coolers connected in parallel, with the output of both coolers flowing through the filter):
Image

So, it doesn't look like the filter introduces any significant backpressure - and the parallel combination actually results in LESS backpressure than the original, factory configuration.

This particular ATF filter isn't any different from a standard spin-on oil filter. In fact, Perma-Cool recommends a couple of "Ford-style" oil filters as replacements, including the Fram PH8A full-sized and PH43 tight-fit part numbers.
Also, I can never get accurate readings on the dipstick... I drained an extra 2 qts of fluid, and after sitting on a level surface for two weeks, it still shows way above the mark...just to be sure... is the dipstick the most accurate way to measure how much is in there???
I've been relying on mine, taking care to measure it with (1.) the car parked on a perfectly level surface, (2.) engine warmed up, (3.) in PARK after moving the selector through all the other gears.

(The owner's manual mentions that you can also use the COLD markings on the dipstick, but should re-check it with the HOT markings after the car is warmed up).

It's quite possible that someone overfilled your transmission at some point.

maxnix
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Q451990 wrote:It looks like the inlet is on the passenger side...
It is. Much better to skip the puny radiator heat exchanger and add an auxiliary B&M cooler in front of the driver's wheel well. Stacked plate design is superior to fins on tubes and a bypass valve is included. Also, this throw no additional thermal load onto the radiator.

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Wiggler
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:12 am
Car: "WHITE BOYS CLUB"
1999 Wht Toyota Avalon XLS 200k!! (CHUBBS)
1999 Wht Infiniti Q45t 102K (TANK)
2001 Wht Subaru Forester 115k (JUNIOR)
Owner: Funny, BROWN, Bald South Asian
Location: North westsiieede! San Antonio, TX

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Behold! The great Maxwinch has returned from his pilgrimage trek to enlighten us!! To what do we owe this unexpected pleasure?

Ski, I just installed an inline Wix filter, about the same size and shape as the fuel filter... do you think it will be ok in terms of pressure ?

I have it plumbed in between the stock cooler and the external cooler...

Image

oh, update: since I put in that Lubegard additive, it shifts a whole lot better now in hotter weather... I'll keep an eye on it... because they say if the problem is not completely fixed then you might need two of them... I was pleasantly surprised...

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Q451990
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Kind of late for me to ask, but why are you leaving the factory "cooler" in line at all? I can't imagine you'd need the factory tank to help warm the ATF in TX?

Heath

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Skibane
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Wiggler wrote:Ski, I just installed an inline Wix filter, about the same size and shape as the fuel filter... do you think it will be ok in terms of pressure ?

I have it plumbed in between the stock cooler and the external cooler...
I'd probably be more concerned about having the stock and external coolers connected in series. That'll result in more backpressure than either one alone would, since each of them introduces some backpressure of its own.

IMO, if you're going to use both coolers, connecting them in parallel is the best way to go, because it results in less backpressure than either cooler by itself would.

Your Wix #58964 filter has a bypass valve that's supposed to open at 4.8 PSI if the filter media ever gets clogged enough to produce that much backpressure. That's a good feature.
Q451990 wrote:Kind of late for me to ask, but why are you leaving the factory "cooler" in line at all? I can't imagine you'd need the factory tank to help warm the ATF in TX?
There's several schools of thought on this, but...

The idea is that the factory tank will still contribute some ATF cooling, particularly when the ATF is very hot.

The engine coolant is maintained at a pretty moderate temperature (220 degrees or so), due to the presence of a thermostat, mechanical and electric fans, pressurized system that prevents coolant boilover, etc.

If the ATF is a lot hotter than that, it will be cooled somewhat by exposure to the engine coolant in the tank.

maxnix
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Wiggler wrote:
A guy at AAMCO transmissions told me that if I use regular Dexron III/Mercon, like it says I could do in the owners manual, I should use a friction modifier, which apparently is in the Matic - D fluid from Nissan... So I'm going to try some of this stuff too...

Image

I'll let everyone know if it works or not...
Best to use M1 ATF with 4 -6 oz. of LubeGuard Red (NOT Black!).

Per Q45tech and confirmed by my experience. I even had the stock and auxiliary in series (misread Skibane's excellent original post) with no ill effects in Texas on a VH41DE and two VH45DE.


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