What type of conventional trans fluid does a 97 Q45 take? I've read about Mobil 1 but would like another option, other than the dealer.

Any Dexron/Mercon III.

But do go with Mobil1. Strictly recommended by Nico!

mobil 1 is good but when push comes to shove, its better to use cheap fluid and replace it sooner... IE its better to replace your tranny fluid every 12k with conventional rather than go 24k on M1... obviously its best to change your mobil 1 at the low interval but that might be overkill?

bullittandy wrote:What type of conventional trans fluid does a 97 Q45 take? I've read about Mobil 1 but would like another option, other than the dealer.

Without a doubt in the hot south, add an ATF cooler and M1 if your car is a keeper.

Read Q45tech's archived posts how he kept his OEM new for over 173K by aggressive maintenance.
Modified by maxnix at 9:39 AM 11/6/2006

Mobil1 is highly oversold. Modern DEXRON III flu9ids are extremely heat stable compared to earlier fluids. There IS a different at real LOW temperatures, and if you live/drive where degrees C & F are the same (-40), a true synthetic ATF -like Mobil 1 or AMSOIL is preferable.

The additive package is essentially identical in all the Dexron -III fluids. Valvoline, Chevron, Texaco, Exxon, are ALL excellent ATF's. I always recomend and use a pint of LUBEGUARD Red in an ATF change. Lubeguard is THE BEST clutch lubricant and ensures smooth clutch lock-up, reducing shock and wear on expensive metal parts

how about adding lubegard BLACK to the tranny fluid instead of RED? from what I gather the black version is the red formula with friction modifiers added to closer simulate the Nissanmatic D fluid- use half of the 11 dollar bottle,save the rest for your next flush.

texasoil wrote:Mobil1 is highly oversold. Modern DEXRON III flu9ids are extremely heat stable compared to earlier fluids. There IS a different at real LOW temperatures, and if you live/drive where degrees C & F are the same (-40), a true synthetic ATF -like Mobil 1 or AMSOIL is preferable.

The additive package is essentially identical in all the Dexron -III fluids. Valvoline, Chevron, Texaco, Exxon, are ALL excellent ATF's. I always recomend and use a pint of LUBEGUARD Red in an ATF change. Lubeguard is THE BEST clutch lubricant and ensures smooth clutch lock-up, reducing shock and wear on expensive metal parts

I AGREE totally. More important to change fluid often then to buy good fluid and think you can go longer!

qship96 wrote:how about adding lubegard BLACK to the tranny fluid instead of RED? from what I gather the black version is the red formula with friction modifiers added to closer simulate the Nissanmatic D fluid- use half of the 11 dollar bottle,save the rest for your next flush.

TexasOil from a previous Post (Read'Em!):

Lubeguard red & black

Red is synthetic sperm oil (can't kill whales anymore) and is used to smooth out the final engagement shock (lock-up.) It is a friction modified that lowers the coefficient of static friction relative to the dynamic friction. Dynamic is when the clutch faces are slipping past each other--static is when they are stationary.

Black lubeguard increases static friction and dynamic friction coefficients, raising the locked-up torque handling capacity of the clutch unit (results in 'firmer' feeling shifts)

The Q45 TCU/ECU backs off on torque during the shift to give smooth shifts. For a given tranny condition/temp/oil condition, one can 'tune' the fluid characteristics somewhat. Factory settings are a compromise between smoothness, durability, and performance.

Ideally you would get a continuous flow of driveshaft torque under all throttle and speed conditions, with no noticeable jerk or sag. Hard to achieve in this world.

You want to be careful with harsh shifts--they stress the metal parts and clutch faces (and driveline parts) more than intended. This is not to say they will fail (right away), but incremental wear/damage is unavoidable with hard shifts.

Brian,maybe Texasoil has it wrong?According to Lubegard,Black is what they recommend to add to Dexron to make it closer to the Nissanmatic D fluid as far as friction level goes.The bottle of black says it is the same formula as the RED with these friction modifiers added,while the RED has NO friction modifiers whatsoever.BLACK is RED with friction modifiers to simulate the characteristics of OEM fluid.

ps,NO harsh shifts with BLACK added,maybe even smoother,less noticable shifts in my 164,000 mile Q-shifts as new still with mobil 1 and 5oz of black{ fluid exchanged every December,never a "flush with any chemical",just exchange of fluid}

Q45tech ran with 6 oz. of black initially, but changed to red later.

I run with only M1 ATF. Young maintained transmissions on all 3.

Keith posted this originally and has seen my two reposts of it, and hasn't corrected it, so let's see if he does now.

I don't claim to be the know-all in lube s and additives, but I have been involved at a technical level for over 25 years and did serve a significant stint in lubes formulation, manufacturing, and field tech support with the company that at the time made more lubes than anyone else.

Regarding Lubeguard. (No comment on Nissan D fluid since I am ignorant of the specific characteristics) I AM knowledgeable on DEXRON (all previous and present versions) and the 'type F' fluids.

Q45's through version III for certain were designed for the friction characteristics of DEXRON. This fluid had friction modifiers that shallow the slope of the torque vs slip curve as the clutches approach 'lock-up'. AND these fluids are suitable for those cars that ALLOW continuous slip of the 'lock-up' torque convertor to smooth things out.

Some transmissons are designed for different fluids, ones that have either no drop in torque transfer as slip goes to zero, or even fluids that have HIGHER torque transmission ability as slip drops to zero. This characteristic is called HIGH STATIC FRICTION. Dexron fluids have HIGH DYNAMIC FRICTION.

If youput a 'high static' fluid in a transmission designed for 'high dynamic' fluid, you will significantly increase clutch lock-up shock--even to the point of shearing the metal driving lugs on the clutch plates. You may even feel a 'firmer shift', but that is easily confused and misnamed. You can also get a 'firmer [faster] shift with higher viscosity fluid or increased oil pressure in the transmission operating circuit. 'Firmer shift' and 'clutch lock-up shock' are different processes and not necessarily coincident. You can have 'soft shifts' caused by worn clutches, leaking clutch pack seals, low oil pressure, and STILL have 'lock-up shock.' You can have fast, firm shifts and still have smooth , no jerk clutch lock-up.

I recomend AGAINST adding Lubegard BLACK to Q45 transmissions in an attempt to get 'firmer shifts'. All you are doing is increasing the momentary torque loading( lock-up shock) on the metal parts in the tranny and can brak some real expensive parts. This transmission IS NOT designed for harsh shifts and WILL break.

IF your Q45 tranny has slow, lazy shifts at moderate and more throttle openings, slips on shifting (engine speeds up), then either your throttle position switch is misadjusted, the transmission is worn and leaking internally, the oil filter is plugged, the fluid burned (worn-out), the clutch linings coated with varnish (from infrequent oil changes) or the valve body is malfunctioning for some reason.

Change the fluid. Add one pint of Berrymans Transmission cleaner and seal conditioner--run it easy for a week, re-drain and refill with DEXRON III --not synthetic--most DEXRON III fluids already have as much as 50% 'synthetic' base oil in them to meet the very low temperature viscosity requirements. What you are trying to do is clean off the clutches, clean out the valve body, and renew the friction modifier additive package. IF the shifts are not velvety smooth on lock-up, add one pint of LUBEGUARD RED. Do not confuse 'smooth lock-up' with 'firm shifts'. DO NOT ADD LUBEGUARD BLACK trying to get 'firm shifts'. To get 'firmer shifts' you will need to increase the transmission 'line pressure'. There are after-market spring/parts kits to do this. Use at your own risk. You DO NOT want to create harsh clutch lock-up under any condition--the metal parts will not survive.

texasoil wrote:I don't claim to be the know-all in lube s and additives, but I have been involved at a technical level for over 25 years and did serve a significant stint in lubes formulation, manufacturing, and field tech support with the company that at the time made more lubes than anyone else.

Regarding Lubeguard. (No comment on Nissan D fluid since I am ignorant of the specific characteristics) I AM knowledgeable on DEXRON (all previous and present versions) and the 'type F' fluids.

Q45's through version III for certain were designed for the friction characteristics of DEXRON. This fluid had friction modifiers that shallow the slope of the torque vs slip curve as the clutches approach 'lock-up'. AND these fluids are suitable for those cars that ALLOW continuous slip of the 'lock-up' torque convertor to smooth things out.

Some transmissons are designed for different fluids, ones that have either no drop in torque transfer as slip goes to zero, or even fluids that have HIGHER torque transmission ability as slip drops to zero. This characteristic is called HIGH STATIC FRICTION. Dexron fluids have HIGH DYNAMIC FRICTION.

If youput a 'high static' fluid in a transmission designed for 'high dynamic' fluid, you will significantly increase clutch lock-up shock--even to the point of shearing the metal driving lugs on the clutch plates. You may even feel a 'firmer shift', but that is easily confused and misnamed. You can also get a 'firmer [faster] shift with higher viscosity fluid or increased oil pressure in the transmission operating circuit. 'Firmer shift' and 'clutch lock-up shock' are different processes and not necessarily coincident. You can have 'soft shifts' caused by worn clutches, leaking clutch pack seals, low oil pressure, and STILL have 'lock-up shock.' You can have fast, firm shifts and still have smooth , no jerk clutch lock-up.

I recomend AGAINST adding Lubegard BLACK to Q45 transmissions in an attempt to get 'firmer shifts'. All you are doing is increasing the momentary torque loading( lock-up shock) on the metal parts in the tranny and can brak some real expensive parts. This transmission IS NOT designed for harsh shifts and WILL break.

IF your Q45 tranny has slow, lazy shifts at moderate and more throttle openings, slips on shifting (engine speeds up), then either your throttle position switch is misadjusted, the transmission is worn and leaking internally, the oil filter is plugged, the fluid burned (worn-out), the clutch linings coated with varnish (from infrequent oil changes) or the valve body is malfunctioning for some reason.

Change the fluid. Add one pint of Berrymans Transmission cleaner and seal conditioner--run it easy for a week, re-drain and refill with DEXRON III --not synthetic--most DEXRON III fluids already have as much as 50% 'synthetic' base oil in them to meet the very low temperature viscosity requirements. What you are trying to do is clean off the clutches, clean out the valve body, and renew the friction modifier additive package. IF the shifts are not velvety smooth on lock-up, add one pint of LUBEGUARD RED. Do not confuse 'smooth lock-up' with 'firm shifts'. DO NOT ADD LUBEGUARD BLACK trying to get 'firm shifts'. To get 'firmer shifts' you will need to increase the transmission 'line pressure'. There are after-market spring/parts kits to do this. Use at your own risk. You DO NOT want to create harsh clutch lock-up under any condition--the metal parts will not survive.

Look at LEVEL 10 transmission build-up! All they do is modify pressure aplications to each individual clutch pack (brake band) by mans of modified valves/solenoids. Also, you can increase line pressure with different pump (care should be taken) or seals will leak. I work with a guy how knows trannies like his own hand (about 30 years of trannies build-up) he is 63 y.o! I suck information from him every time I get a chance!He is an expert in A4OD (FORD) TH350/400/700R4(GM) and TorqueFlight(CHRY) When varnish is formed on clutches/bands there is nothing you can do, simply wait till it silky smooth (slipping) and do a rebuild Valves/solenoids can be cleaned/replaced as well as springs. His oppinion on different additives was simply waste of money Cleaners/conditioners might help rejuvenate slightly tired transmission otherwise it's just senseless. I use regular dexron III for high milage transmission (added some conditioners and friction modifiers) and check fluid every time I open hood of my car (every week)!Smell is important because color is not an sign of bad fluid. New Mercom is very dark in color (looks burnt). ATF+4 stinks like you want to puke ALWAYS CHECK ATF - SMELL IT

The characteristic odor of new DEXRON -III iswet fresh raw burlap.

Regarding Level-10 builds--They do a great job, no question about it. Thye also use higher quality clutch disks (harder lugs) and carefully inspect/replace any drums that are not as-new. Even so, higher torque shifts WILL shorten the life of the planetary gearsets and thrust bearings. No way to avoid that. IMHO, a fresh/good condition tranny needs nothing but pure DEXRON-III changed regularly. IF you have a shudder on TQ lock-up, or a jerk on clutch lock-up. LUBEGUARD RED is the answer. If you have RPM flare on upshifts, look for low line pressure, and if its right, expect a rebuild soon as the clutches are slipping too much due to leaking seals or worn friction linings.