Power Steering problem

Post by **sublime187** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:47 pm

I posted a little while back about a noise coming from the steering. After having my regular mechanic changed the power steering pump with a rebuilt unit the noise did not go away. I took it back to him and he could not find any problem with any hoses, the pump, or the rack, but he flushed the lines and somehow the noise went away for about a week. Well now the noise is back. It gets progressively worse, day by day and eventually it will cause the fluid to come back up through the reservoir. The weird thing about it is that a couple of times driving the car today the noise was not there. I took it to my local Infiniti dealer in Novi, MI today (this was my first visit there) and it didn't make the noise after Mike, the master tech, started it up. No problem whatsoever. He told me to bring it back if the noise came back and it came back when I started my car to leave the place. By just listening to the whining noise he told me it was the power steering pump and that I should take it back to the mechanic who changed it for me. I have no warranty on my rebuilt pump and my mechanic told me that when he tested the pump it operated fine. I have already spent $500 on this issue and am on a tight budget and was wondering if anyone has any guesses or suggestions. I will be taking the car to a third mechanic tomorrow for a recommendation lol.

Post by **maxnix** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:25 pm

Well, I think the Novi dealer tech gave you the best advice. Why would you think some other "mechanic" unfamiliar with teh Q45 would do any better?

Did number 1 replace your accessory belts and check the pulley bearings in the tensioners?

Post by **sublime187** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:13 am

I took it to a third mechanic that I was referred to and he had nothing to tell me really except that he didn't think it was the pump. Mechanic #1 tells me that when he tested the pump it worked properly and that of course when there is a fluid loss the pump will be noisy. But he has no solution. None of them ruled out a problem with the rack, although nothing is visible externally. The strange thing is that the problem was apparently fixed for over a week by simply flushing the lines with solution. Weird, because it's losing fluid somehow from somewhere, but simply cleaning the lines was a temporary fix. Forgive me as I know basically nothing about cars. To answer your question, maxnix, the power steering belt was changed but I don't know about the the pulley bearings. I do know that mechanic #1 was the only one to thoroughly inspect the steering system and he could not find a problem. It's a shot in the dark but I'm hoping maybe someone could give me anything to go on with this..

Post by **Haitian_King** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:24 am

sublime187 wrote:I took it to a third mechanic that I was referred to and he had nothing to tell me really except that he didn't think it was the pump. Mechanic #1 tells me that when he tested the pump it worked properly and that of course when there is a fluid loss the pump will be noisy. But he has no solution. None of them ruled out a problem with the rack, although nothing is visible externally. The strange thing is that the problem was apparently fixed for over a week by simply flushing the lines with solution. Weird, because it's losing fluid somehow from somewhere, but simply cleaning the lines was a temporary fix. Forgive me as I know basically nothing about cars. To answer your question, maxnix, the power steering belt was changed but I don't know about the the pulley bearings. I do know that mechanic #1 was the only one to thoroughly inspect the steering system and he could not find a problem. It's a shot in the dark but I'm hoping maybe someone could give me anything to go on with this..

Perhaps it's air in the system that needs to be worked out? When I was at Keith's, the customer before me had a Supercharged Buick that had a problems with powersteering noise. Keith informed her that it's something that should work itself out with enough driving. It was very noticeable at low speeds, but at high speeds, it couldn't be heard.

Just tossing two pennies in there.

Post by **xerexabante** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:46 pm

Try this to flush the line of air. When the engine is off have the Keys in the ignition so it has the steering wheel unlocked. turn the steering wheel left to right a couple of times with the cover of the reservior open. this should bleed your system from air in the lines. If this does not cure your problem your rebuilt pump may be defective. I don't see why you don't have a warranty on a rebuilt pump. They actually have a longer warranty(life-time) then a brand new one from the dealer, then again the dealers don't have new pumps either (in some cases) they will get you a rebuilt one as well.

Post by **jimbyjimb** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:09 pm

xerexabante is right, but lift the front off the ground with a jack and stands to make it easy if you can. Do it 10-12 times, then cap it, start the car, and turn it lock-to-lock a few more times. Typically this will bleed MOST of the air. If the pump still makes a little noise after doing this it should eventually bleed what little air is left in the system over time and normal driving. If you do this and notice no change then you are probably looking at another issue. You don't have to raise the car, it just makes it easier. It's also hard on the system to turn it lock-to-lock while it sits on the ground and is running.

Post by **maxnix** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:44 am

sublime187 wrote:...that of course when there is a fluid loss the pump will be noisy. But he has no solution.

None of them ruled out a problem with the rack, although nothing is visible externally. The strange thing is that the problem was apparently fixed for over a week by simply flushing the lines with solution. Weird, because it's losing fluid somehow from somewhere, but simply cleaning the lines was a temporary fix.

That's scary that fluid is being lost but no one can find from where!

Racks usually don't go bad unless fluid change interval is abused. Generally the seals just start leaking.

What color was the PS fluid? Most PS "flushes" are simultaneous extraction and refill operation through the resevoir. If the fluid is nasty brown or black, then an actual flush through the low pressure hose must be performed to extract the gunk from the recesses of the rack and pump. I know the Sun machine can be used for this, but I really don't know how the BG machine works in this regard. The steering must be cycled lock to lock and held a few seconds at each lock to exhcange all the fluid.

While M1 ATF is a suitable fluid, TexasOil has told me that a seal conditioner must be used with it or they will shrink. It should be noted that BG does use a conditioner with its PS synthetic fluid when it performs the PS service.

Joe sells OEM new and Meridian rebuilt. One should know that the rack mechanism is machined to a few ten-thousandsth of an inch. Very precise.

Post by **xerexabante** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:18 am

All Rack&Pinion, pumps, hoses, gaskets, leak/break at some point. All cars will have problems leaking. food for thought, NISSAN Uses a Different type of RTV. Only use original on your NISSAN.

Post by **sublime187** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:23 pm

My mechanic is advising me to wait on the issue for now and just keep it full of fluid. He can't find any leaks and doesn't want to needlessly start replacing parts. I've done some general searches on these types of issues and lots of people end up replacing racks, pumps, etc. and still never solve the problem. I'm going to wait until the fluid loss becomes more substantial and then maybe the source will emerge. Any thoughts on wasting $10 on some Lucas power steering stopleak? Would this be harmful?

Post by **maxnix** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:32 pm

How do you think it works? How would that be helpful for your hydraulic system?

Unbelieveable that the rack is losing fluid and yet there is no evidence of a leak.

Post by **xerexabante** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:51 pm

If there are no leaks ten don't spend on the Lucas. Wait a while, you might think that you have a leak till all the air in the line is gone.

Post by **sublime187** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:48 pm

It's not just air in the system... That much I know for sure. To max: don't waste the rhetorical questions on a person who knows not a damn thing about cars. Why even throw a post out there if it's only to ridicule someone? Again, can it be harmful to use the Lucas stuff? Assuming if it doesn't work that the system will get flushed eventually anyway?

Post by **jimbyjimb** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:00 pm

Many of the "wonder" cures for leaks are a gimmick and shouldn't be used to solve any problem beyond temporary. For example, if you're on a road trip and the fluid starts leaking you might put stop leak in to limp home. Basically what these additives do is get in there and thicken up the fluid a bunch and reduce flow. Not good for a permanent fix. Most I've seen don't claim to be anything but a temporary fix. The long term effects are no good. If you want to solve the issue stop leak isn't going to help.

Post by **elwesso** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:55 am

I really think it sounds like you have air in the system but why its getting in there at a fairly rapid rate is the question. This is somewhat confirmed as it goes away when you flush the system...

Honestly I might try a flush again and see what that does. Also the lifting the front in the air and turning the wheels is a really good procedure that I may try first.

Post by **RAP** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:40 pm

I have the same year car but not the anniversary edition but the PS pumps should be the same.

All the suggestions above are good. There is a "flow control valve" that works like a pressure relief valve or acts to make the pump operate at a certain pressure. That valve is installed on the upper body of the pump on the side at the pulley end. The valve is a piston and spring. The piston is supposed to slide back and forth according to flow requirements.

This piston may be getting stuck at times thus cutting the normal flow? ? ?

I haven't actually looked at the pump on my car prior to writing this but the valve should be removable from the pump in place? It's held in place by a hex nut or cap.

The FSM outlines the procedure for checking pressure to help determine weather it's a pump problem or a steering gear problem but does not mention your particular problem.

My 2000 FSM "book" does not mention this as a noise/fluid loss problem so the above are my thought and suggestion.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Jack

Post by **maxnix** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:20 pm

sublime187 wrote:. To max: don't waste the rhetorical questions on a person who knows not a damn thing about cars.

It is most certainly not rhetorical but an attempt to make you think. Studious ignorance does not an excuse make.

Put it this way, if you used tar instead of hydraulic fluid, do you think that might cure the leak? And do you think a flush would extricate it totally?

Thinking is difficult, but it sure beats being a conforming ignorant consumer lemming!

Think about it!
Modified by maxnix at 6:47 AM 11/18/2008

Post by **Haitian_King** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:53 am

maxnix wrote:It is most certainly not rhetorical but an attempt to make you think. Studious ignorance does not an excuse make.

Put it this way, if you used tar instead of hydraulic fluid, do you think that might cure the leak? And do you think a flush would extricate it totally?

Thinking is difficult, but it sure beats being a confrmance lemming!

The irony of this above post does not escape me.

Maxnix, rebuking someone for being a "conformist lemming"?

Wow.

Post by **sublime187** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:48 pm

It turns out that it's just leaking from a line. A warning to anyone else with similar problems. This leak was not apparent for QUITE awhile. It all started with a groaning pump, but no signs of leak.

Post by **bullittandy** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:29 am

Glad you solved your problem. If its any consolation I think your mechanic handled the problem competetently, power steering problems are almost always either a leaking line, leaking rack, or a bad pump. Detecting leaks is usually easy-there's fluid present- but for whatever reason the leak hid itself and your mechanic suspected the pump-rightly so in my opinion.

King and Sublime-right on for our old pal Maxnix!!

Post by **maxnix** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:49 am

sublime187 wrote:It turns out that it's just leaking from a line. A warning to anyone else with similar problems. This leak was not apparent for QUITE awhile. It all started with a groaning pump, but no signs of leak.

Wow! An invisible leak!

Truly amazing!

The earth is still round, or ar least sllightly pear shaped.

Post by **Haitian_King** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:24 am

No problem Andy!

Post by **JOHNQ** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:02 am

thanks for keeping us posted on this power steering issue.when i bought the 99qt it also squealed due to an empty ps reservoir but i immediately filled it up with mobil1atf then turning the wheels until it circulated the fluid i put in then top it off once more with lucas ps stop leak and i havent had to add any ever since. i never saw any fluid leak and waited for one , i wonder if it was also a line. which line was it on yours?

Post by **GThreat** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:40 am

Can you tell me exactly where that leak was? I want to check mine as I am having a similar problem.

Andy - your ps pump now installed but lots of air in the system still. I am gong through the bleeding process and hope this is all it is. The noise has not subsided yet, bearing in idler looked good, but maybe not?

Post by **sublime187** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:47 am

I was told there were 2 pinhole leaks in one of the steering lines. I'm not sure which one. Apparently these were very difficult to find when the problem first started.

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:17 am

Wow, that's quite unusual (as far as I know). All of the Nissans I've owned have either gushed a fountain of fluid or didn't leak at all.

Power Steering problem

Power Steering problem

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