Picture History of CA18DET Head design

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
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float_6969
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So I was going through pictures the other day and realized I have a bunch of CA18DET info on my computer, but nothing really organized. So I decided to create a place where anyone could see all of the CA18DET differences in one, easy to access place. I'll start with the pictures and history that I know. Please post any additional information so that I can integrate it into one, coherent place.

This is the first generation CA18DET head and intake manifold design. It was used on the J-Spec MK2 S12 Silvia, U11 Bluebird, and maybe the early U12 Bluebird's as well until it went to a top mount intercooler and the 2nd gen head/manifold/etc. (A comprehensive list of chassis and chassis codes would be helpful here)
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As you can see, the intake manifold is completely different than the more common, later model intakes. This setup is fed pressurized air from the turbo outlet, NO INTERCOOLER, directly over the valve covers, and into the throttle body, much like the RB25DET setup. But the main difference you'll notice, is that if you look closely, there are 4 large runners, that split about where the manifold bolts together into 8 runners, 4 large diameter runners that have a short path to the head, and then 4 more, long, skinny runners that run down, and then back up into the head. This system works by closing off the short, fat runners are low load/rpms with butterfly valves near the head. This forces the air to take the path through the long, skinny runners that feed only 4 of the intake valves (one per cylinder). This will be easier to understand in the next 2 photos.

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Here you can see better how the system works. Unlike the later 8 port setups, all 8 ports are either closed, or partially blocked off at low load/RPM. The ports that are only partially blocked off are fed air by the longer, skinnier runners all the time. These are also the runners that the fuel injectors are placed on. Another thing to note is the difference in the fuel injectors. Although they're a top feed, they are a very odd style. Trying to get uprated injectors for this setup would be very difficult and would probably require fabricating a new fuel rail to accommodate new style injectors.

Another bit of information is that this version does have piston squirters like all of the later models with turbos (I don't think any of the N/A models had them), but DOESN'T have the crank girdle that all of the turbo models had (this was also left out on the N/A models as well). This could be updated with those parts, but would require the girdle, main bolts, and oil pickup from another engine.

It's also important to note that the New Zealand destined U11's didn't have any idle control equipment, as the emissions requirements were quite lax at the time.

On to the later model 8 port CA18DET. This was used in the later AWD Bluebirds that were intercooled, the RWD Silvia's and 180sx's, and the Pulsar's in the US. (A comprehensive list of chassis and chassis codes would be helpful here).

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Here is a picture of the head. The difference in the ports is clear. The high load ports don't seem to change much, if at all. The low load ports are vastly different. The main difference being that none of the port is blocked at low loads. The next image clearly shows why.
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Here you can see that there are now only 4 valves in the manifold. The 4 valves that have the fuel injectors in them are always open. It's also important to note that this system "fails safe", meaning that if there is a loss of vacuum, the valves open. I don't know if this is true for the 1st gen system, but I would suspect it works the same way.
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Another difference to note is that Nissan now introduced what is refered to a a "sub" or "lower" manifold that was different between the 2nd gen 8 port head and the 4 port head, but both used the same upper manifold. The upper manifold (or plenum in other countries) was the same for FWD and RWD layouts. The manifold was designed in such a way that the Throttle body could be bolted to either end of the plenum, allowing it to work for either layout.
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Here you can clearly see the 8 port manifold bolted to the common plenum. This is the orientation for FWD.

Before moving onto the 4 port, I feel like I need to bring the CA16DE into the mix. Although this motor is rare, it's relevant due to it being sold in the US, even if it was only for one year. Concrete data is hard to find on this motor, but from what I understand, the head isn't exactly the same as it's CA18DE(T) brother. The intake and exhaust ports are the same, but the size of the valves and the size of the combustion chambers were different. (THIS NEEDS CONFIRMED OR DENIED). It was also equipped with an EGR system. It also used the lower/sub manifold like it's CA18 brother, but it wasn't identical. There was a coolant port that passed coolant to the upper manifold/plenum that's not found on the CA18's. What's interesting is that Nissan didn't change the gasket when they dropped the CA16 and so the seal for the coolant passage is still present in all of the 2nd gen CA18 upper to lower gaskets. Another difference to note is that the CA16 used an "over the top" manifold design, similar to the 1st gen CA18's, but didn't have the more complicated manifold and port design. The following picture illustrates these differences.
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Thanks to Livelyjay, I've learned that this intake manifold design wasn't exclusive to the CA16DE. It was also used on all the USDM N13 (Pulsar) CA18DE engines as well.

Lastly is the 4 port head. This was an alternative head design used mainly in Europe. The theory for the difference in the design is that the Europeans didn't have the same need for low end torque as in other pars of the world, and that they were more interested in higher speed driving (such as the Autobahn). The 4 port head allowed for easier breathing at higher RPM's and loads.
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This image illustrates the difference in the design of the head. Clearly this head uses a more common 4 port design.
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Here you can see the difference in the lower manifold.

By 1991 Nissan discontinued production of any of the 8 port CA18DE(T)'s. Nissan continued to use the 4 port CA18DET in Europe until the S13 chassis was replaced with the S14 chassis in 1995.

Any questions, commments, pictures, or information would gladly be welcomed.


leadpaw
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Is there any difference in performance with the two second gen intake designs? U.S over the top and jdm/euro side intake plenums?

Id also like to note the American built N13 pulsar CA18DEs had the over the top type intake manifold but with the later model 8 port ca18de(t) lower plenum and head design with an egr port.
Image

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If I move forward with my swap I might be able to get you more information about the CA16DE intake manifold/head design. Not that it's all that important because I'm like the only person in the country driving around with the CA16DE engine.

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Leadpaw, thanks for the info! I'm not as well versed on the FWD stuff. I'll edit my post with the updated info. As far as the difference in performance of the two, I've never seen a comparison. Just from looks alone, it seems to me that there would be less of a tendancy for any of the cylinders to run lean with the over the top manifold, but it almost completely lacks a plenum, making me wonder if it would suffer from poor top end breathing.

Livelyjay, any info would be appreciated. I've always thought the CA16 would be a fun little motor to play with.

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I can confirm that the first motor was used on Bluebirds. Namely the U11, and possibly the early U12s prior to getting a top mount intercooler. Also the NZ new U12s came in without any of the ilde control stuff you see attached to the front and side of the plenum as NZ had less emission regulations at the time.

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float_6969
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Thanks Danski! I'll add that to the post now.

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themadscientist
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The J-spec S12s had this model head and manifold as well.

Image

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float_6969
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So there was a RWD version of that motor? Interesting! Is the accessory layout the same for FWD and RWD, or was it like it was with the later model CA18DET's with the Alt. and P/S swapped? And did it still lack true COP? If so, where did they mount the coils? It seems like the mounting point on the back of the head for the FWD versions wouldn't work for the RWD versions, or maybe there's more room behind the head in the S12?

Seishuku
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For some reason CA blocks sit VERY far forward on the S12 (like 2 or 3 inches!), vs. my SR, which is about an inch away from the firewall.

Us S12 goers still don't know a whole lot about the MK2 S12 with the CA18DET, it's extremely rare... Actually, it's easier to find an FJ20 than one of these RWD CA18DETs.

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float_6969
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Never thought I'd hear that and FJ would be easier to find than a CA! Good info, thanks!

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So, I missed one, curses!

The S12 CA18DET did have the COP if I remember correctly.

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The CA18ET was a mean lil sumbitch too, though.

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float_6969
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Nice pic! I've never seen it in the S12 before. I was right about the coils though, they had to move them. They're on the back of the head in the FWD versions, but you can see it in front of the intake manifold on the RWD version.

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As cool as coil on plug is I always worry about them cooking in there and have to pull the valley cover on such engines. It looks like s***. Refitting an L engine with RB coils, however, works great!

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float_6969
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I'm alright with COP as a concept, but in the CA/RB/VG, I don't think it was implemented well.

bentvalves
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you know, those over the top intake plenums would be f*** sweet for sending and equal volume of air to all cylinders. Maybe no more broken schit in cylinder 3?

bentvalves
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who could get me one of those things? Im down to try it out. Id leave the inlet where it is but relocate the throttle body with an elephant trunk. would look pretty sweet with some piecuts.

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float_6969
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KN13 Pulsar used them. You have to find an SE though. The non-SE was a different motor.

bentvalves
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those cars are rare/non existent in the new england area. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

bentvalves
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where would you suggest I start searching float?

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float_6969
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Was there not another chassis that used that motor over there? If not, there has to be a forum around dedicated to that chassis. I would search for them an see if they have a classifieds section like us.

bentvalves
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lol not ENGLAND rather new england. I live in New Hampshire broheim, you know next to Vermont.

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float_6969
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LOL! Sorry dude.

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biosehnsucht
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You'd need the valve covers too, they're shaped differently to allow the intake to go over them. Possibly some other minor tweaks too.

ragenasian
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I don't contribute much to the CA forum since I don't know as much as you guys but I do have three different CA intake manifolds sitting here with their corresponding valve covers. I don't know if this helps much but seeing as how we are talking about intake manifolds right now thought I would share and take a pic of them all together.

Image

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I was given a CA18det for free by a mate. Another mate of mine and his gave it to him when he sold his house. I was out in the shed the other day, and I noticed that the inlet ports had a weird bit under neath them that my other 8 port motors dont. I see in this thread, that it's the very early motor. I asked the guy I got it off, and the guy who gave it to him if they had any of the manifolding for it. But it appears the intake went to scrap.
What I really wanted to add though, was that I'm told by the mate who owned this motor originally that it didn't have a crank girdle. He also didn't think it had sqirters either.
I was dubious as to whether of not it was actually a det engine. The 1st guy has asked for the sump pan back, since he'd modified it to fit his datsun 1200. So when I take it off to give to him, I'll take a good hard look and see if it has quirters or not.
Also, for Xmas just been, My dad bought me a bore-o-scope. So when I get the time (If I ever do) I'm going to take a gander down a spark plug hole, and see if the motor has flat tops, or domed pistons.

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float_6969
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That would be some great info!

stapes
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Hi all,

I own a S12 with the 1st gen CA 18DET. Had to do an engine rebuild at 225K miles, had both S12 & S13
blocks side by side, crankshaft/rods,pistons and oil pump are interchangeable, both have oil squirters fitted. The
only differences are S12 does not have the crank girdle as a result the sump is different internally and the oil pump
pick up won't interchange. The S12 does not have any intercooling, standard ignition timing is set at 10 deg and the
s12 throttle body is the same size as the Z32 TT. Can't think of any thing more right now. Hope this helps.

Stapes

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float_6969
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Awesome!!!! Great info. Thank you!

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spriso
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I also have a S12 CA18DET engine that I picked up a few years ago from a guy who had it sitting in his shop for 20+ years. He had the engine/trans, but no wiring harness, ECU or MAF.

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It is now on a stand and I can get more images of it if there is any interest--- it is totally different than the later S13 style CA that I also have...

Michael

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themadscientist
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If I correctly recall, the early CA18DE head casting is different with smaller ports.


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