I just picked up one of the first of CP Racing's new STB's. These bars are crazy stiff!!! They absolutely destroy everything on the market! I pulled my JIC-Magic STB's for CP Racing's bar. They have the Front bars for S13 and S14 available and are just getting the rear bars sorted out. Price is $125 US shipped for the front bar. You can choose between Blue, Black, Red, Silver or raw steel (yes the bars are steel) so you can paint it yourself or have it chromed. Call Chris @ 519-940-9225 -or- email him [email protected]
S13 (My Car)
Pics of my new CP Racing Triangulated STB!
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MaineExport
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Nismo_Freak
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Nismo_Freak
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not_a_porsche
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I don't trust the weld where the ends attach to the round part that goes on the tower.
A tube spot welded to the flat part? Even if the bottom of the tube is ground flat I still wouldn't trust it. Those welds are not as strong as the entire structure and I foresee that thing cracking.
It may not be hinged but I think it's weak.
A tube spot welded to the flat part? Even if the bottom of the tube is ground flat I still wouldn't trust it. Those welds are not as strong as the entire structure and I foresee that thing cracking.
It may not be hinged but I think it's weak.
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not_a_porsche
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After I look at it again I see no point in those 2 pieces that connect to the firewall, they need to connect to each other in the center. Remember....triangles.
In order to resist torsional twisting, they need to connect to the center so that they maintain the greatest mechanical advantage. Seeing they they are only 6-8" inboard of the shock tower itself I don't think they do much.
In order to resist torsional twisting, they need to connect to the center so that they maintain the greatest mechanical advantage. Seeing they they are only 6-8" inboard of the shock tower itself I don't think they do much.
not_a_porsche wrote:After I look at it again I see no point in those 2 pieces that connect to the firewall, they need to connect to each other in the center. Remember....triangles.
In order to resist torsional twisting, they need to connect to the center so that they maintain the greatest mechanical advantage. Seeing they they are only 6-8" inboard of the shock tower itself I don't think they do much.
First off a quick look at the center of the firewall shows us.......our brake lines!! They can't be moved so the bars have to work around them. I agree that a perfect triangle would be the strongest it is impossible without custom lines. To say that the additional bracing is useless is stupid. I would assume your one of the highly informed consumers who thinks that a $40 APC brace is as good as a CP, Cusco or JIC. BTW what kind of brace are you running for "Maximum Performance"?
I hate to point out how dumb some people are but a weld is always weaker than the surrounding stucture. (With the exception of certain exotic alloys)not_a_porsche wrote:Those welds are not as strong as the entire structure and I foresee that thing cracking.
Quote »It may not be hinged but I think it's weak. [/quote] It's nice to see you come to this conclusion using elementary school level geometry and a distinct lack of knowledge of metal working.
I would be more concered about the weld points where it attaches to the strut mounts, its just welded on, two seperate peices(I know welds can be strong) of metal welded together, and honestly, a good hinge nut type mount would have just as much resistance through lateral(across car) bending as those welds would....its all a matter of quality with hinges too, the more nuts/adjusters a bar has, the more it can flex. also materials make a hue difference. I'll stick with my apex-I n-1 bar. its light, sollid alluminum and doesnt lok to have any bad flex points or welds.just my .02
-chet
-chet
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not_a_porsche
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I said:"Those welds are not as strong as the entire structure "boMex wrote:I hate to point out how dumb some people are but a weld is always weaker than the surrounding stucture. (With the exception of certain exotic alloys)
You said:"a weld is always weaker than the surrounding stucture."
How are those 2 statements different?
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not_a_porsche
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not_a_porsche wrote:I said:"Those welds are not as strong as the entire structure "
You said:"a weld is always weaker than the surrounding stucture."
How are those 2 statements different?
Your mis-quoting yourself. You stated that you thought the weld would be weaker and would crack. I'm saying that all welds are the weak point of any join. That doesn't mean they aren't strong or that they will break. It just means they are not as strong as an unwelded section. That said they are stronger than any hinged joint. If you think differently I challenge you to find a race car that has a hinged brace. They don't use them in racing because they are nowhere near as strong. I'm switching from a JIC-Magic STB to a CP Racing STB because they are an improvement. If you know anything about STB for our cars you'll know the Cusco is basically the beefiest bar you can get. It is a big step up from all the other crappy bars like the Apex, Pilot etc. The JIC is virtually identical to the Cusco and the CP blows the JIC's out of the water. If you only care about the 'look' of a STB then stick with your crappy APC style bars. If your looking for a performance part then take a look at the CP bar.
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MaineExport
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JNM240 wrote:My question is: does it bolt to the firewall or is it just resting there?
Ooohh... I didn't even notice that. I don't see any bolts through there, and that pretty much defeats the purpose of the firewall points. I would weld it on, but if I want to service the engine beyond a spark-plug change I'm screwed. I suppose it won't be too hard to drill a couple holes on each side and bolt it up.
so what's the deal boMex? is that section just for decoration, or is it bolted to the firewall.
maineimport wrote:Ooohh... I didn't even notice that. I don't see any bolts through there, and that pretty much defeats the purpose of the firewall points. I would weld it on, but if I want to service the engine beyond a spark-plug change I'm screwed. I suppose it won't be too hard to drill a couple holes on each side and bolt it up.
so what's the deal boMex? is that section just for decoration, or is it bolted to the firewall.
In the pics it is not bolted up because Chris from CP was taking the pictures while Pat form CP was still fitting the bar. The bar does bolt up to the firewall. I will try to get some more pics when the painted bar (it will be black) is fully in.
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MaineExport
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"crappy bars like the Apex.."
I beg to differ. the apex-i bar is made of solid alluminum, with sold mount points, and its not "hinged" as most people think.
also, I do know a thing or two about strut tower bars, as well as have taken quite a few mechanical engineering courses a few years ago, and I dont like being insulted by saying i should stick with my "APC" style bars.
tell you what, show me a race car WITH A STRUT TOWER BAR AT ALL. most wont have them, because their chassis are more than rigid enough(tube framed or built/modified to the task) to begin with. the only race cars WITH them, are ones based on stock platforms, where chassis rigidity becomes an issue.
also, those weld points look like someone said "ooh. lets tack weld that bar here". I would be much more confident if the bar was machined down at the ends at an angle so the welds would look flush with the bar entering the strut mounts instead of a bar laying there welded on.
also "this Bar beats JIC" is totall opinion. If you'd like to show me, via torsional resistance testing at a mechanichal schools shop (It, anchoring it and trying to bend the peice until something deflects or breaks) to prove that, I'll stick with my lighter, nicer looking, and probably just as, if not nmore effective Apex-I front and CUSCO carbon fiber rear strut bar.
thank you for your input.-chet
I beg to differ. the apex-i bar is made of solid alluminum, with sold mount points, and its not "hinged" as most people think.
also, I do know a thing or two about strut tower bars, as well as have taken quite a few mechanical engineering courses a few years ago, and I dont like being insulted by saying i should stick with my "APC" style bars.
tell you what, show me a race car WITH A STRUT TOWER BAR AT ALL. most wont have them, because their chassis are more than rigid enough(tube framed or built/modified to the task) to begin with. the only race cars WITH them, are ones based on stock platforms, where chassis rigidity becomes an issue.
also, those weld points look like someone said "ooh. lets tack weld that bar here". I would be much more confident if the bar was machined down at the ends at an angle so the welds would look flush with the bar entering the strut mounts instead of a bar laying there welded on.
also "this Bar beats JIC" is totall opinion. If you'd like to show me, via torsional resistance testing at a mechanichal schools shop (It, anchoring it and trying to bend the peice until something deflects or breaks) to prove that, I'll stick with my lighter, nicer looking, and probably just as, if not nmore effective Apex-I front and CUSCO carbon fiber rear strut bar.
thank you for your input.-chet
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MaineExport
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Originally posted by Exar-Kun "]tell you what, show me a race car WITH A STRUT TOWER BAR AT ALL.
OK.... I could show you LOTS of race cars with STBs. The NEHCO is full of them. Next hill climb, I'll snap some pics for you.
most wont have them, because their chassis are more than rigid enough(tube framed or built/modified to the task) to begin with. the only race cars WITH them, are ones based on stock platforms, where chassis rigidity becomes an issue.
Exactly.... how many of us here have a tube chassis race car? So it does apply to us. I will try this out, for $125 you really can't go wrong.
OK.... I could show you LOTS of race cars with STBs. The NEHCO is full of them. Next hill climb, I'll snap some pics for you.
most wont have them, because their chassis are more than rigid enough(tube framed or built/modified to the task) to begin with. the only race cars WITH them, are ones based on stock platforms, where chassis rigidity becomes an issue.
Exactly.... how many of us here have a tube chassis race car? So it does apply to us. I will try this out, for $125 you really can't go wrong.
you'll note I put in the disclamer about stock chassis race cars man, those have them. 
I agree that in theory that bar is nice, and would probably do great things for a car chassis, I'd just like to see it made a bit better. I would venture to guess that the firwall mounts might help back-to-front chasis flex a bit, too. but I still like my apex-I bar.
-chet
I agree that in theory that bar is nice, and would probably do great things for a car chassis, I'd just like to see it made a bit better. I would venture to guess that the firwall mounts might help back-to-front chasis flex a bit, too. but I still like my apex-I bar.
-chet
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not_a_porsche
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Your mis-quoting yourself.
No I am not. We are saying the same thing but you maintain that the weld won't crack. I say it will.
I'm saying that all welds are the weak point of any join. That doesn't mean they aren't strong or that they will break.
And yes, sooner or later the weak point will fail.
It just means they are not as strong as an unwelded section. That said they are stronger than any hinged joint.
That's a interesting conclusion. I am sure you arrived at that through rigorous testing and stress analysis.
If you think differently I challenge you to find a race car that has a hinged brace
The RealTime Acura Integra type-R has a hinged front strut bar from Comptech.
A strut bar, like the rest of the car needs to flex. Building it absolutely rigid will make it prone to cracking, especially at the weakest point which in this case as you and I both agree, is the weld.
No I am not. We are saying the same thing but you maintain that the weld won't crack. I say it will.
I'm saying that all welds are the weak point of any join. That doesn't mean they aren't strong or that they will break.
And yes, sooner or later the weak point will fail.
It just means they are not as strong as an unwelded section. That said they are stronger than any hinged joint.
That's a interesting conclusion. I am sure you arrived at that through rigorous testing and stress analysis.
If you think differently I challenge you to find a race car that has a hinged brace
The RealTime Acura Integra type-R has a hinged front strut bar from Comptech.
A strut bar, like the rest of the car needs to flex. Building it absolutely rigid will make it prone to cracking, especially at the weakest point which in this case as you and I both agree, is the weld.
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Cloudedone
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actually , the weld is actually stronger than the original steel after the weld is complete. It depends on the type of parrent material and welding consumable, as well as the job quality
http://www.ukwelder.com/faq/faq.php#q3read question 3 from this link, or talk to a metal shop.
Galen
http://www.ukwelder.com/faq/faq.php#q3read question 3 from this link, or talk to a metal shop.
Galen
Yeah, Thats true, the weld is actually the strongest part, assuming it was done by a good welder, The weakest part is the metal next to the weld that gets heated up while the weld is taking place and then cools down after(the Haz), the expanding and contracting that happens from the metal heating up and cooling down makes it weaker, this is where it would crack, not at the weld.
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180crafter
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Instead of adding to the stipulation, I contacted Christopher and got the word form the horses mouth. I extended an invitation to him so that he could answer any questions, and asked him a few questions about payment and reliability. This is what I got back:
Quote »I read the posts, let me clear up a few things. The bars come in blue, black, silver, red or bare metal. The bars certainly do bolt to the fire wall. In regards to payment we accept paypal at id [email protected] or we take major credit cards. We do have a stock of bars, the receipt of the products from the 240 community has been excellent so we are super busy with orders, the total time from order to delivery is roughly 2-3weeks. The welds may be miss leading in the picture, the bar is welded to the plate from 3 sides length totaling near three inches. All welding is performed by our in house ticketed welder/co-owner and I can assure you they will never flex or break. We have offered rare strut tower bars for a number of rear drive sports cars for several years now and of the hundreds of bars sold we have never had a single weld crack or break. We will offer a reduced price 10 off per bar for orders totaling more than 5 bars at a time Feel free to call to have any of your questions answered. Take care[/quote]
Hope this clears some stuff up and also wanted to show you guys that if we bought a couple it would be cheaper. Also the 240sx.org classifieds show the price as $100US Shipped, which is less than the price quoted on this forum.
Quote »I read the posts, let me clear up a few things. The bars come in blue, black, silver, red or bare metal. The bars certainly do bolt to the fire wall. In regards to payment we accept paypal at id [email protected] or we take major credit cards. We do have a stock of bars, the receipt of the products from the 240 community has been excellent so we are super busy with orders, the total time from order to delivery is roughly 2-3weeks. The welds may be miss leading in the picture, the bar is welded to the plate from 3 sides length totaling near three inches. All welding is performed by our in house ticketed welder/co-owner and I can assure you they will never flex or break. We have offered rare strut tower bars for a number of rear drive sports cars for several years now and of the hundreds of bars sold we have never had a single weld crack or break. We will offer a reduced price 10 off per bar for orders totaling more than 5 bars at a time Feel free to call to have any of your questions answered. Take care[/quote]
Hope this clears some stuff up and also wanted to show you guys that if we bought a couple it would be cheaper. Also the 240sx.org classifieds show the price as $100US Shipped, which is less than the price quoted on this forum.
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1dollar240
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Quote »I don't trust the weld where the ends attach to the round part that goes on the tower.[/quote]
welds are not any weaker than the original piece as long as the welds are done right. If it was welded with a crappy torch, then yes its weak, but if its properly TIG or MIG welded, then the two peices of metal actually become one- making the weld the strongest part of the structure.
welds are not any weaker than the original piece as long as the welds are done right. If it was welded with a crappy torch, then yes its weak, but if its properly TIG or MIG welded, then the two peices of metal actually become one- making the weld the strongest part of the structure.
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MaineExport
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