Discuss the RB20, RB25 and RB26 series engines.

OMG My RB is overheating! (Writeup)

Postby Cpt_Impossible » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:14 pm



**I posted this in Northwest Nissan as well**

I used to have a big cooling problem with my RB20DET in S13 swap which as far as I can tell is now gone. This is to provide some basic info and suggestions to those who have to go through the same ordeal as I did.

Did you bleed properly?

-Nissan engines are a total pain to bleed and the RB engines are some of the worst. They love to trap air in them. You can follow the factory guidelines, but here is what I do.
-Turn the heater to full blast hot and then fill the car up with coolant.

-Start the car and let it idle for like 30 seconds.


-Then remove the bleeder screw on the front of the intake manifold and the radiator cap.
-Top the coolant off and replace the screw and cap.


-Park nose up on the steepest hill you can find that’s close to your house or jack the front of the car up.

-Start the car (with screw and cap on) and let it heat up (still with heat on full). Turn the car off and let it cool down for like 15 minutes.

-Slowly remove the bleeder screw. If bubbles come out, top off at the cap and repeat the warm up cool down. If bubbles stop coming out and coolant dribbles out without any air accompanying it you should be done.

-Check the coolant before every drive for the next week and top off as necessary.

Are your hoses old?

If you are using the main radiator hoses that came with the swap, slap yourself. These could be factory hoses from 17 years ago for all you know. Many car manufacturers put a spring inside of the hose to keep it from sucking itself shut with the suction created by the water pump after time. Nissan didn’t so these soft hoses can be a real choking point for coolant at higher rpm’s. You can use the KA24E lower hose, or you can order one made for the RB online. Tweakit, an Australian performance website sells factory hoses for the RB’s. my lower hose cost me $32.23 to my door.

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/pr...=5572

The upper hose you can just go to any parts store and get a section that fits; it’s a pretty straight line and depending on your swap setup, the length will change.

Also check all of the smaller hoses like the one on the back of the engine that goes to the heater core and the ones along the intake manifold. Any cracks can cause the system to loose pressure and also loose coolant causing you to overheat. Anything that is too soft should be replaced as well.


Is your radiator in good shape?

If you are using your old KA radiator or if you are using the one that came with the RB it may have bent fins or bent tubes that could be hindering flow. Make sure the fins are allowing air to flow through; this may involve an hour sitting with a small screw driver straightening them. Remember, be careful when doing this. It doesn’t take much to break the radiator in some places. Many people just upgrade to a Koyo or other performance radiator when doing the swap so unless you are really clumsy you don’t have to fix bent fins and tubes.

Is your radiator cap in good shape?

If you are using a cap that came with the clip or one that you are not absolutely sure is good. Get a new one. They are like $8 at Schucks for a generic one or $15 at Nissan for a genuine one. Despite what magazines may be telling you, a higher pressure cap is not always a good thing. The radiator cap serves as a fuse of sorts. At a set pressure it pops open. Its better that your radiator pops open than blowing your head gasket. I believe that the RB20 uses the same cap as the stock KA. If you want a slightly higher rating, just go with the Z32 TT cap.

Are your coolant paths flowing properly?



Many of these engines have been sitting for a long time and coolant does some ugly things over time, especially when the previous owners used 100% water or an improper mix of red and green coolant. If when you are working on the system you notice clumps of leaves or rust flakes or things like that you should probably flush your coolant. Just take it to a shop if you are lazy and can get there or buy a bottle of coolant flush and follow the directions on the back. Some of the Australian guys claim that the RB engines can have problems with coolant getting clogged in the water jackets around the pistons. This can usually be solved by a good coolant flush.

Are you using the ideal coolant?





This isn’t usually going to fix problems, but it can help buy you some extra room for error. With any engine, you are going to want to use the best you can afford. I use a mix of Honda OEM coolant. It is blue in color and there is some research that it is superior to most other things out there. It costs about $15 per gallon of 50/50mix. I have found that when going to a Honda dealership, don’t make eye contact and don’t say why or what you need the coolant for. Just get in and get out. I take that gallon of Honda coolant and add one bottle of water wetter and then top off with distilled water (ignore the BS on the coolant about not adding water). Most grocery stores have this on stock. Distilled water has better thermal properties than tap water and causes less damage over time because it is free of contaminants.

Here is a copy of an internal letter at Honda a while back bragging about how good it is. Basically it is the best coolant for use on aluminum such as aluminum engines or nice radiators as it does not clot over time like most coolants.

http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/HondaCoolant.html


Is your head gasket blown?

There is a chance you got sold a dud or you made it that way pushing it too hard. Some head gasket failures are impossible to detect without a leak down or hot compression test. Usually you will see signs though. Reduced power, bubbles or gas coming out of the coolant reservoir while running or revving the engine, oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil, white smoke coming out of the exhaust with no other explanation (cold outside/car has been sitting long time). If the head gasket is damaged, don’t drive on the car, it only risks more damage.

Is your thermostat working properly?

If the person doping the swap (maybe you) was lazy and didn’t change the thermostat, installed the thermostat improperly, or you don’t have a thermostat installed at all, there is a good chance you will have problems. The RB20 uses the 300zx TT thermostat. Horsepowerfreaks sells OEM units for $15 or you can spend six times that and get a lower temperature Nismo unit. The problem with having a thermostat that opens at a temperature that is too low or not having one at all is that it doesn’t give the coolant in the radiator enough time to let off its heat before pushing it back in the engine. When installing, use grey gasket maker, there isn’t a real gasket part. Don’t overdo it on the gasket maker, follow the directions. Give it the proper time to dry and make sure to install the thermostat right side up.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.co...ostat

Are your sensors operating correctly?

Make sure your two coolant sensors are good. They are located on the upper radiator hard pipe in front of the intake manifold on the RB20. Take them out while you are working on the cooling system and make sure they are clean on the terminals and the part that sits in the coolant stream. The single wired sensor goes to the dash gauge and the two wire sensor goes to the ECU. If the ECU sensor is fouled or malfunctioning the engine runs different maps which can cause you to overheat if the car is already warmed up. Finding a sensor that works for the ECU can be a pain. Here is my old sensor next to the one I replaced it with which has worked just fine for me. You can see the part number in the pic. This will only work for RB20’s with yellow OEM sensors like you see here. Different years used different plugs and require a different part number.



Do you have an adequate fan setup?

RB swaps leave little room for cooling fans. Many of us resort to using pusher fans (front of the radiator pushing toward the engine) rather than pullers (back of the radiator pulling air through it). With a Koyo radiator, there often isn’t enough room to physically fit pullers. Most people run two 12”fans or a single 14” fan. Make sure the fan is as close to the radiator as it can get without scraping the fins. If it can suck or push air along the sides it will take the path of least resistance which is not through your radiator.

Up Garage in Tacoma has recently posted that they are able to modify the transmission mount and use a shorter driveshaft which allows fitment of the stock RB clutch fan. They do good clean work by all accounts as you can see in the pictures. You can read about it here:

http://northwestnissans.com/bo...58065

Do you have proper ducting?

The stock engine bay has a shroud underneath. It is that plastic/tar sheet under the car that always gets in the way that you probably removed to work on the engine swap and didn’t bother to put back in. That shroud is what keeps air from passing through your bumper and then under your radiator. Without this in place you are losing a loot of airflow t the bottom of the core. You can either trim it to fit the RB oil pan and put it back on or you can make your own similar device.

This is the sheet I fashioned out of steel for my car.


Also many people claim that an upper cooling panel keeps air from swirling near the top of the radiator and encouraged more to pass through. I got mine from Rigid Racing which sells them a lot cheaper than most top name companies. You can get them on Ebay for around $35.

This is the Rigidracing.com unit on my car.


If you have an 89-90 240sx, you can trim the factory “Pig Nose” bumper and remove the fake vents. It takes an afternoon but can look clean if done right and provides more air that doesn’t have to pass through the front mount intercooler.

I trimmed mine and then masked and sprayed the inside of the holes primer black.


There is a great article on the improvements that can be made through ducting on a 240 here:

http://home.satx.rr.com/nissan...t.htm

Is your intake getting cold air?

Almost all of us ripped out the factory air box long ago and replaced it with a cone filter. The RB can be an oven though and really fill up the engine bay leaving little room for airflow. That hot air just sits there getting hotter. The hood is sealed on all sides from the factory with weather stripping so the rising air doesn’t really escape. Your cone filter sucks that in compounding any other cooling issue you may have and robbing horsepower. The quickest way to fix this is to head to home depot and grab a roll of aluminum or galvanized steel flashing. It is about $10 for 14 feet of the stuff so a real bargain for an increase in horsepower. Just trim pieces to isolate your filter from the turbo’s hot air.

Here is what I made one afternoon. It isn’t the best but it helps. The black around the edge is rubber tubing that I slit down the side and glued to the edge so it didn’t cut me while I worked around it.



Some people also remove the weather stripping at the back of the hood to allow some hot air to rise out when you slow down or even raise the hood using spacers. This mod has been shown using temp probes to lower under hood temps by about 6*F at idle and low speeds but actually sucks air in the back of the engine bay at freeway speeds. This may help keep air flowing by the hot turbo but I haven’t seen data suggesting it helps at high speeds as well. I removed the weather stripping at the back of the engine bay along the windshield and noticed the hood was noticeably cooler when I would open it after a drive.

Here is a picture I snagged from NICO from ADAMHU of a raised hood.


Are you getting accurate information from your engine?

Are you sure it is overheating or is the gauge malfunctioning? A great asset is a temperature gauge. If you have the room between the radiator and hard pipe, you can cut the hose and install a Nissport temp adapter with an aftermarket temperature gauge. I found it impossible to install when using the R32 Crossmember style install and a Koyo. There was simply no room. I have a Cyberdyne water temp gauge with the Nissport adapter that I can no longer use because of the Koyo, best offer takes them. Or you can get the adapter here.


http://www.nissport.com/catalo...tions

Because I was unable to use the easily installed Nissport adapter I got a HKS fan controller. It splices into the factory ECU harness and tells you the temperature the ECU is reading which is very accurate. The problem with the stock cluster gauge is not that the sender is inaccurate. It is that the gauge itself is inaccurate. Most people don’t want to see the needle move while driving because they would think something is wrong. Nissan fixed this by using a 3 position gauge in the cluster. You have:
-Cold
-Normal (really wide range of temps)
-Death (when it climbs over the halfway point you are already way too hot and need to pull over now!)

When you see the car starting to overheat on the gauge, you are seeing it too late and damage could be going on already.

The end (Finally)

If after reading and trying all of these things you still have problems it might be worth your time to take it to a shop. If you need advice on the forums make sure you are clear and specific. When does it overheat?
-At idle?
-On the freeway?
-All the time?





Modified by Cpt_Impossible at 4:28 PM 7/6/2007
03 G35 6MT: Z-Tube, K&N, Clear Corners (slowly but surely).
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby Cpt_Impossible » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:15 pm

Feel free to suggest additional info
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby Kansei240sx » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:07 pm

Good sh1t!

I've near mastered this subject as i've gone an oddball way of fabricating my cooling system, but so far its all good.
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby Impulse_240 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:18 pm

Awesome writeup! I may need this in the future.
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Postby DriftingisLame » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:23 pm

I think any long time RB owner has dealt with many of these suggestions... lol

Great write up!
Fast car huh?

......You've never heard of my s13? Its the 240 that made the Kessel run in less than 12 parsec's...

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Postby Coolwhip » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:33 am

+1
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby RB20DETodd » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:46 am

very good man thanks!

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Re: (Coolwhip)

Postby Eikon » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:51 am

Excellent thread Cpt!

I've added it to the Read Here Before Posting sticky.


Thanks so much for sharing this collection of knowledge. Cooling issues are one of the most common RB problems we see on this forum. I'm going to link a lot of people to this thread.

Well done sir!
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Re: (Eikon)

Postby mello88 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:30 am

Awesome write up, covers all the things that come up every single time we have a 'overheating' thread. Very good job... Look forward to more stuff like this in the future from other members!!!
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Re: (mello88)

Postby Bwana » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:05 pm

Very good man. 1 problem. That nwn pic is not viewable unless you're logged in to nwn. Either rehost it or email it to me and once I get that I'll make an article out of it.
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Postby Cpt_Impossible » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:29 pm

fixed by finding a raised hood pic in another NICO thread. Thanks person I jacked... (ADAMHU)
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Re: (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby Bwana » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:09 pm

Article has been articlized. You're entitled to a custom title if you'd like one. Just let me know what you want and I'll put it in! Thanks man!
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Re:

Postby Joe » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:18 pm

*claps*
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Re: Re: (Kamin)

Postby sbird1 » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:51 am

Awesome. This is going to be big when I do my install.
Click the link!!
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uMQk ... 20/009.gif

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Postby xdrkphnx » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:50 pm

I was actually able to fit my STRI temp sensor adaptor between my koyo and my r32 crossmember mounted RB20. I filed away a tiny amount of the neck on the rad and motor hard pipe, as well as both sides of the adaptor, cut some hoses to fit. then i put them all together. I uses i small amount of lube to get everything together but it worked out really good for me!
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Postby Cpt_Impossible » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:50 am

I noticed that that was a possibility, but it doesn't really allow the engine any movement. I suppose if you had solid mounts it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but I wouldn't want to break a hard-pipe or radiator neck. Good feedback though.
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby 240sxautox » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:57 am

You would not even believe how perfect the timing on this article is, I just got my RB 240 back from Tophat and now I'm dealing with overheating issues. So thank you tremendously for the write-up and I'll be putting it to use in just a few minutes.
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (240sxautox)

Postby nizmo zilvia » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:23 am

240sxautox wrote:You would not even believe how perfect the timing on this article is, I just got my RB 240 back from Tophat and now I'm dealing with overheating issues. So thank you tremendously for the write-up and I'll be putting it to use in just a few minutes.
And let us know how it went!


*Why not a sticky?????*

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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby Abdo » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:50 am

props on an excellent write-up.
this should be a sticky!
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby grenade180sx » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:52 pm

alright.. here we go!


im overheating. like most hahaha

symptoms
i can drive around for awhile and it runs perfect

then car slowly starts to heat up

pop the hood open the pressure release cap and bam steam for days

i dont have a heater, i did the whole jack up the car and open the bleed valve on top of the intake mani and fill accordingly as air escapes but after awhile it just lets coolant out with out any bubbles, so i fill up seal and go for a drive mashing on it does fine. then same scenario AGAIN, starts to heat up close to the H but doesnt go all the way, im hoping not a HG it jsut seems to turn right back into a steam factory after 30mins of driving.

whats the deal.

oh its a single core radiator!i know its prone to heat soak but would the cause all of this, i mean its 56 degrees out here at night and it still does it.


hope i made this clear enough.

thanks for any help!


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Re: Re: (Kamin)

Postby leesredgt » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:50 pm

does anyone know what engine coolant temp sensors would be used to replace the rb25det ones b/c im needing both especially the one for the ecu.
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (grenade180sx)

Postby Cpt_Impossible » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:28 am

grenade180sx wrote:alright.. here we go!


im overheating. like most hahaha

symptoms
i can drive around for awhile and it runs perfect

then car slowly starts to heat up

pop the hood open the pressure release cap and bam steam for days

i dont have a heater, i did the whole jack up the car and open the bleed valve on top of the intake mani and fill accordingly as air escapes but after awhile it just lets coolant out with out any bubbles, so i fill up seal and go for a drive mashing on it does fine. then same scenario AGAIN, starts to heat up close to the H but doesnt go all the way, im hoping not a HG it jsut seems to turn right back into a steam factory after 30mins of driving.

whats the deal.

oh its a single core radiator!i know its prone to heat soak but would the cause all of this, i mean its 56 degrees out here at night and it still does it.


hope i made this clear enough.

thanks for any help!


So you are using which radiator? Stock RB or stock KA? Any other cooling mods? The stock radiators can work, but I don't think they are that great if you are hard on the car. What are you using for cooling fans?

Also, I usually bleed coolant several times and check and top it off after every drive the first week, these engines love to trap air.
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby grenade180sx » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:44 pm





heres what im working with....


i hoping its jsut a case of heat soak because my car turns the water into a steam factory after 30-45 mins of driving never does it go all the way to H but it just gets warm

hope this help at all

fan wise i have one 14inch pulelr and one 10 inch pusher
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Postby Cpt_Impossible » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:02 pm

Sounds like a leak to me, you could have the system pressure tested.
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Re: (Cpt_Impossible)

Postby grenade180sx » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:24 pm

alright ill check it out tomo, what kinda numbers should i be looknig for on a

Leakdown test-

Compression test-


radiator pressure test-

thanks for all your help!
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Re: (grenade180sx)

Postby Darius » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:25 pm

Since you're not running it through a heater core, you ARE looping the coolant in its place right? Not trying to insult your intelligence, but it seems very odd that you are overheating when it is 56 degrees outside. I ran with a stock S14 radiator with pusher fans on it all summer and it ran hot but not overheating. This winter I'll need to add some duct work etc. to improve cooling.

Maybe I missed it but is your thermostat opening? And did you take your water pump off to look that it still has an impeller?


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Re: (Darius)

Postby grenade180sx » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:37 pm

alright update!


changed out the radiator to a two core!

and changed the fan set up and BAM!


runs at 82-85 C which is smashing!

sounds good for now!


hope it stays this way!

thank you for all your help.
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Re: (grenade180sx)

Postby s14_sport » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:18 am

grenade180sx wrote:alright update!


changed out the radiator to a two core!

and changed the fan set up and BAM!


runs at 82-85 C which is smashing!

sounds good for now!


hope it stays this way!

thank you for all your help.

You changed the fan setup to what?!

You changed the radiator to which two core radiator?!

Please help with details so we can all benefit if we all run into the same heat issues...
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Re: (s14_sport)

Postby grenade180sx » Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:22 pm

sorry sorry my bad


\
well i actually just bumped up to a factory two core. nothing crazy did it as a budget fix,


so its a factory two core s13 radiator.

i was going to run Flex alites but it wouldnt clear the power sterring pump, no BIGGIE

i used my orginal set up but i ran the 14 inch as a puller on the hot side of the radiator(the side when the hot coolant comes into) and the 12inch on the cooler side of the two.

i can drive arund with the 12nch fan on and run between 82-90 depending on weather.

i have yet to take it out to a drifting event, bu i will keep it updated...

hope this helps!
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Re: OMG My RB is overheating! (Writeup)

Postby nissangirl74 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:36 pm

Blast from the past. A member was asking for this info a couple of nights ago.
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