A General Discussion forum for cars and other topics, and a great place to introduce yourself if you are new to NICO!

Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby MinisterofDOOM » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:15 pm


Thank goodness we've got the Europeans to help us mandate stuff for cars. Whatever would we do without them. Without stuff like Pedestrian Impact Standards, we would surely still be stuck in the Dark Ages. Certainly we'd all be dead, and the auto industry would be lost and directionless.

:spitout:

Yeah. Unnecessary garbage like Pedestrian Impact regulations are partially responsible for cars being so heavy and having such poor visibility, since they necessitate high noses, which in turn create high beltlines unless you want your car to look like a Dutch shoe. Seems like European lawmakers and politicians are determined to meddle in every single thing, reglardless of their scope of understanding. Worse, they're abysmal at considering secondary repercussions beyond those for which they create their laws. The same groups demanding improved emissions are the ones adding weight to cars in the name of safety, making efficiency more difficult.

Now they're here to save the day again with a new moronic, unnecessary, and spectacularly-poorly-thought-out mandate: automated braking systems. Yes. The EU will be REQUIRING autonomous braking systems on all cars starting in 2014.

This is ridiculous. It's offensive. It's terrifying.

I've explained/ranted about the fact that these computerized override systems are not what safety-proponents want them to be before. Their supporters will tell you that they can react more quickly than any human, and that having them there to step in for you on that one occasion where you're not able to react can only be a good thing.

They are ignoring reality.

The reality is this:
These systems react based on an extremely limited set of specific criteria gathered by a limited number of specific sensors looking for a limited number of specific things. In the event of a specific set of expected circumstances, they do their thing.
The real world is not specific. It is not controlled. It is not a laboratory experiment. It is dynamic. And only a HUMAN MIND is capable of taking the full range of information available to it and reacting effectively. Only when you narrow the circumstances and the inputs and control their occurance does a computer becomes superior.
The self-braking system only knows one thing: whether or not the car is approaching an obstacle at a speed that will lead to collision. That's it. It doesn't know what that obstacle is. It doesn't know what's beyond the obstacle. It doesn't know what's happening beside or behind or even above or below or inside the car that is being controlled autonomously. It does not have the capability to combine all this information. And it doesn't have the ability to judge the best reaction. It can only decide if a front-end collision is going to happen, and then brake or not brake.

There is an infinite number of possible situations in which braking to avoid one collision might be less ideal than allowing that collision to avoid something worse. There is also an infinite number of possible situations where braking hard might be more dangerous than not braking, even if it means a collision. Autonomous braking systems don't care, because they don't KNOW this. They'll just do their two-step dance and their advocates will continue to sing their safe praises to the world.

And none of this takes into account the possibility of FAILURE on behalf of the autonomous braking system. What if it fails on the highway at 75mph? Nevermind reacting to the car in front of you stopping abruptly without warning--imagine THE CAR YOU ARE DRIVING doing that!

These systems are not creating safer cars. They are merely trading one source of risk for another. And it's not acceptable. I'm sick of this stuff. I'm sick of lane departure prevention, automatic braking, stability and traction control, and other systems that take control out of the hands of the reasoning-capable humans and put them in the minds of a single-minded computer program.

This is unacceptable. I refuse to drive in a world where cars have been programmed to believe they are better drivers than the people behind their steering wheels. I refuse to tolerate this kind of meddling, small-minded, short-sighted, idealistically misguided idiocy in legislative form. If this s*** comes to America, there's going to be Hell to pay.

It's true there's a problem with inattentive and incapable drivers. But ignoring their failings and working AROUND them is not a solution. The solution is to require drivers to demonstrate sufficient capability or be denied the right to drive.

A message to Europe:
If your pedestrians can't stop walking in front of multi-ton moving slabs of metal, they deserve to die.
If your drivers can't operate cars in a safe manner, they do not deserve to drive.
Stop making laws that cascade, set dangerous precedents, and affect industry, products, and consumer choice around THE WORLD because you're too dim-witted to understand how reality works.
And, finally: get bent.

Thank you for your time.
-The MinisterofDOOM
Image
MinisterofDOOM
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 32544
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Idaho. Where the drivers are worse than the roads.
Car: 2005 Lincoln LS8

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby krash » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:37 pm

I didn't read all of it, but

MinisterofDOOM wrote: The EU will be REQUIRING autonomous braking systems on all cars starting in 2014.

This is ridiculous. It's offensive. It's terrifying.

I totally agree with this. I don't know why everyone is so determined to get non-drivers on the road.
XenonSE-R wrote: And that is the beauty of automotive enthusiasm - to make more out of less for your own purposes. Some can afford more, some can't.


Image
krash
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 4703
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Memphis, TN
Car: 1993 Nissan 240sx Convertible

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby IBCoupe » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:28 pm

I oppose these regulations.

I'd much prefer the extra work for lawyers. Not the field I'm aiming for, mind you, but the lawyers chasing ambulances aren't chasing my clients.
Mods:
SBD Grounding Kit | BC Type-BR Coilovers | K&N Typhoon


2008 Altima Coupe 3.5SE: More than 144,000 miles and going strong!
IBCoupe
User avatar
 
Posts: 7430
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Location: DongGuan, Guangdong, China
Car: '08 Alti-Coupe 3.5SE; '05 'Rollolla

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby frapjap » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:55 pm

One positive, pretty soon I can get in my passenger seat hammered and let the car drive me home.
Image
frapjap
User avatar
 
Posts: 11254
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Location: South Coast Massachusetts
Car: 1988 Trans Am, Turbo Miata, '07 Legacy

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby Rev_D21 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:38 pm

Maker driver license tests harder! That's all it takes.
Image
1986.5 Nissan D21 Hardbody Long Bed 2WD V6 5Speed
1991 Nissan D21 Hardbody Base 2wd Auto(undergoing 5spd swap soon!)
1995 Nissan D21 Hardbody XE 2wd 5spd
2012 Nissan N17 Versa 1.6S 5spd
Rev_D21
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:49 pm
Location: Somwhere in Western NY
Car: 1986.5 D21 Long Bed 2WD V6 5Speed
1991 D21 Reg 2WD Auto
1995 D21 Reg 2WD 5Spd
2012 Versa 1.6S 5-Speed

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby MinisterofDOOM » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:28 pm

Rev_D21 wrote:Maker driver license tests harder! That's all it takes.

I agree this is a big part of it. Tests every 4 years should also be required...practical and written. The problem there is that it introduces cost, and I don't think cost should become prohibitive with drivers' licenses.

I also think people should be tested IN THEIR OWN CAR if they own one. There are two main reasons for this:
1: The first time you drive a new car, you must get used to the way that car's brakes, throttle, steering, transmission, etc. respond. Learning a new car while being tested is far less than ideal. It takes attention away from the test. Driving in a car you're already used to puts the testee (shut up!) in the ideal position to demonstrate their driving skills.
2: The car you drive every day likely has your seat, steering wheel, mirrors, etc. positioned where they work best. They're probably where they are after a long series of fine-tuning and adjustments. This advantage is lost if you test in a car you've never driven before.

The vehicle should be as small a factor in the test as possible, and the best way to achieve that is to put the driver in a car they are comfortable driving.
MinisterofDOOM
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 32544
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Idaho. Where the drivers are worse than the roads.
Car: 2005 Lincoln LS8

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby alms24sebring » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:50 pm

I got to drive in my car :gotme:

I also think that tests every 4 years is absolutly right. Auto brakes are going to be stupid.
Image
alms24sebring
User avatar
 
Posts: 7246
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:18 am
Location: Alexandria VA
Car: '97 Nissan 240sx. First Nissan. First love. Sold.
'04 Nissan Sentra SER SpecV

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby C-Kwik » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:32 pm

I'd be interested in your source, but I doubt such a system would be implemented in place of manual braking, but rather as a safety net. That is, as the car approaches another car or object, if it calculates you are getting to the point of no return, then it can step in. It obviously has limitations so it can't completely replace manual braking activity. How would a computer know my intent is to turn into the next driveway so I need to slow down in preparation for it?

That said, assuming the input isn't producing a false-negative, such a system can indeed react faster than any human. A human relies much more on anticipating hazards, but in the event of the appearance of a sudden hazard, a human will take longer to process the information, to physically get on the brake, and then to actually fully depress the pedal. Where such a system probably won't perform better is when the hazard comes into the picture in such a way that the system is not programmed to respond. For example, if a car going perpendicular to you is about to cross your path, its possible you may be able to react faster if you see it before it gets into your path. I'd speculate this system only detects hazards that are already in the path or at the most, very imminently about to be. Otherwise it might be difficult to eliminate a lot of false-positives. However, if the driver isn't paying attention and the car detects the hazard and starts braking, the end result will be an impact of lesser force. This could be the difference between life and death. Between a major injury and something everyone walks away from.

As for your comment about an infinite number of scenarios where such a system might not work better, this is true. But statistically, its more likely that braking for a hazard will be much safer than any other motion. Another consideration is if a driver had braked for a hazard sooner, could an avoidance accident have been avoided? I've witnesses a couple of accidents arising out of someone swerving or taking some other action because they failed to brake early enough. I've also investigated a lot of them. In almost every case, earlier braking would likely have been enough. Its like the argument against seat belts where one claims that not having been ejected from a car would have led to their death or severe injury. Its certainly possible, but statistically unlikely.

The potential for false-positives can be a scary thought, but without knowing the actual implementation and perhaps the actual results, its only speculation at this point. Its worth scrutinizing for sure, but I have a feeling the engineers will have scrutinized it much further than you have, given the potential for disasters (and IBC's collegues).

While I understand your reasoning and from an ideological standpoint, I agree with you, the reality is its unlikely we will see people driving with 100% attention and being able to avoid every accident. Such a system aims to mitigate this.

Absent any actual failures of the system, I support this in concept. Whether or not implementation will be sound will have to be seen...
C-Kwik
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 9:28 pm
Car: 2013 Chevy Volt, 1991 Honda CRX DX

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby Jesda » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:21 pm

TAKE
THE
F*CKING
BUS
Image
http://www.q45.org | http://www.vh45de.com | http://www.jesda.com

"The Q45's reputation is sterling. In that car was proof that Infiniti could compete with BMW's finest sport sedans."
--Car and Driver, 12/17/12
Jesda
User avatar
 
Posts: 38610
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 1:50 pm
Car: 91 Saab 900 turbo convertible, 02 Dodge Ram

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby float_6969 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:49 pm

LOL @ Jesda.

This is coming from the same group of people that started wrapping tree's in foam so that people wouldn't get hurt anymore when they walked into the tree while texting and not looking where they were going.

It's not just EU. We're guilty of it too. For some reason, big governments start to think it's their job to protect the populace from them selves. I have 2 words for you. Natural Selection. Let it run it's course. If you walk into traffic and get run over and die, the gene pool is a little better IMHO. Is that a morbid and socially unacceptable viewpoint? Probably. But it doesn't make it any less true.
mdb4879 wrote:It makes sense, though. You have to be pretty messed up in the head to begin with to be a CA nut anyways.
float_6969
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 16297
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (toy)
Mostly stock 1996 Mazda Miata MX5 M-Edition (wife's toy)
2003.5 Mazda Mazdaspeed Protege (lightly modded DD)

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby C-Kwik » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:50 pm

float_6969 wrote:It's not just EU. We're guilty of it too. For some reason, big governments start to think it's their job to protect the populace from them selves. I have 2 words for you. Natural Selection. Let it run it's course. If you walk into traffic and get run over and die, the gene pool is a little better IMHO. Is that a morbid and socially unacceptable viewpoint? Probably. But it doesn't make it any less true.

Right, because drivers are never at fault for collisions with pedestrians. In which case, natural selection is working in reverse...perhaps we should add something to increase the effectiveness of that process:

Image

And just because it came up in the image search and it made me LOL.

Image
C-Kwik
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 9:28 pm
Car: 2013 Chevy Volt, 1991 Honda CRX DX

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby ADDirishboy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:20 pm

C-Kwik wrote:Right, because drivers are never at fault for collisions with pedestrians. In which case, natural selection is working in reverse...perhaps we should add something to increase the effectiveness of that process


You're right, not every accident that involves a vehicle and a pedestrian is the pedestrians fault. There are many times when the driver is responsible for hitting a pedestrian. But there are many cases in which it is the pedestrian doing something stupid that led to him/her getting hit.

That being said, the system itself isn't a god awful idea. If it could be implemented properly, it could be a very good safety feature. There is a problem with that, however. Like MoD said, there are too many variables in the real world. A computer with a limited amount of sensors on a limited scope of sight is useless.

Even if we could integrate a truly functional auto-braking system into a car, it should NEVER be made mandatory. EVER. If MB or BMW wants to toss in that feature as a safety selling point to the automotively (new word?) retarded, let them. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will see that item on the options list and tick the little box next to it. But to require it for every vehicle? Now you're adding additional weight and also additional cost that isn't needed.

Could the system save a life? I'm sure it would. But like everyone else has been saying, a better solution is to require stricter license testing. A license should not be handed out to every s*** 16 year old. Hell, I'll admit that 16 was too young an age for me to be driving. I was too stupid. I went faster than I should have, I dove into turns like an F1 driver would even though I was driving a late 80's lifted Toyota pickup, I weaved in and out of slow traffic, etc.

Electronic nannies aren't the answer. More attentive, better trained drivers are. I can't for the life of me understand why ordinary citizens are smart enough to realize this when we pay politicians and lawmakers ridiculous amounts of money to make up ridiculous laws that don't solve anything. This needs to change.
You're a towel!
ADDirishboy
User avatar
 
Posts: 13094
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:08 am
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Car: 2002 Mitsu

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby numbnuts240 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:27 pm

MinisterofDOOM wrote:testee (shut up!)


Image
numbnuts240
User avatar
 
Posts: 31376
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:17 pm
Location: TJ
Car: 2001 exploder sport, 1974 fairlady z 250gt

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby SX APPEAL » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:55 pm

float_6969 wrote:It's not just EU. We're guilty of it too. For some reason, big governments start to think it's their job to protect the populace from them selves.


You made the point right there. Big governments step in to "save us from ourselves" because WE make them. Someone is too stupid to realize that the coffee in the cup is hot and burns themself, they sue McDonald's and now warning labels are required on all coffee cup lids. Someone is too stupid to realize that spending 5 hours outside on a 100 degree day is not the best idea, has a heat stroke and the family sues, and now we have mandatory heat advisories on what we used to call a nice summer day. It's why I'm required every time I seat a table at the restaurant I work at, to ask the guest to watch their step as I lead them down the two small steps into the seating area, because if I don't and one of them were to be dumb enough to fall and be injured, they could sue the company and surely win. Did anyone see a pattern there? As long as stupid people keep trying to use their stupidity for personal financial gain, the government will have no choice but to keep enacting legislation and creating bureaucracy to enforce said legislation to stop them.
Why spend thousands of $$$ on car that no run?
Image

Parting out my build, getcha some!

Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement...
SX APPEAL
User avatar
 
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:26 am
Location: KC Area, MO
Car: 95 S14 KA-T GT3076
-might run someday...
95 Maxima Daily
-blown headgasket...

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby C-Kwik » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:18 pm

ADDirishboy wrote:
C-Kwik wrote:Right, because drivers are never at fault for collisions with pedestrians. In which case, natural selection is working in reverse...perhaps we should add something to increase the effectiveness of that process


You're right, not every accident that involves a vehicle and a pedestrian is the pedestrians fault. There are many times when the driver is responsible for hitting a pedestrian. But there are many cases in which it is the pedestrian doing something stupid that led to him/her getting hit.

That being said, the system itself isn't a god awful idea. If it could be implemented properly, it could be a very good safety feature. There is a problem with that, however. Like MoD said, there are too many variables in the real world. A computer with a limited amount of sensors on a limited scope of sight is useless.

Even if we could integrate a truly functional auto-braking system into a car, it should NEVER be made mandatory. EVER. If MB or BMW wants to toss in that feature as a safety selling point to the automotively (new word?) retarded, let them. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will see that item on the options list and tick the little box next to it. But to require it for every vehicle? Now you're adding additional weight and also additional cost that isn't needed.

Could the system save a life? I'm sure it would. But like everyone else has been saying, a better solution is to require stricter license testing. A license should not be handed out to every s*** 16 year old. Hell, I'll admit that 16 was too young an age for me to be driving. I was too stupid. I went faster than I should have, I dove into turns like an F1 driver would even though I was driving a late 80's lifted Toyota pickup, I weaved in and out of slow traffic, etc.

Electronic nannies aren't the answer. More attentive, better trained drivers are. I can't for the life of me understand why ordinary citizens are smart enough to realize this when we pay politicians and lawmakers ridiculous amounts of money to make up ridiculous laws that don't solve anything. This needs to change.


I don't disagree with the notion that we should make it harder to pass driving tests and get licenses. But even if we did, that's not going to get rid of all accidents. It would likely reduce the number of them, but drivers and pedestrians are both capable of error. I'm not necessarily advocating for self-driving cars (which are cool in their own right), but if these "nanny" systems have a significant effect on the number of accidents and/or the number or severity of injury, do we simply ignore it? Can we say definitively that this will be intrusive or that it is destined to fail? Consider, while driving a car does indeed involve a multitude of variables this device is designed to perform a very specific task likely under a specific set of conditions. Its largely going to be these constraints that are going to help filter out false-positives. So it could be conservatively tuned to the point where there is a high degree of scientific certainty that the vehicle will collide with an object if no breaks are applied. It may, in some circumstances, react to certain types of situations early enough to avoid a collision. But consider the reaction time of a typical human. Its about half a second minimum. Calculate how far a vehicle travels at 60 miles per hour in 0.5 seconds. N/M, I'll do it for you. Its 44 feet. A computer and mechanical hardware to apply the brakes will be acting on the order of milliseconds. As an example, if it took 50 milliseconds to respond, it will have only traveled 4.4 feet. In that 0.45 seconds, the automated braking will have slowed by 10 mph by the time the human actually started slowing the car. To put that in perspective, that's a 30% reduction in kinetic energy. To be fair, the reaction time of the system is arbitrary as I don't know what a given system might actually respond in. The point here is that the seemingly miniscule amounts of time that we consider are actually quite significant in terms of the actual physics.
C-Kwik
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 9:28 pm
Car: 2013 Chevy Volt, 1991 Honda CRX DX

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby ADDirishboy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:53 pm

C-Kwik wrote:
I don't disagree with the notion that we should make it harder to pass driving tests and get licenses. But even if we did, that's not going to get rid of all accidents.


Sorry, but I stopped reading after that. We'll never get rid of all accidents. Period. Stop trying too make it happen.
ADDirishboy
User avatar
 
Posts: 13094
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:08 am
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Car: 2002 Mitsu

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby C-Kwik » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:27 am

ADDirishboy wrote:Sorry, but I stopped reading after that. We'll never get rid of all accidents. Period. Stop trying too make it happen.


Riiiight...

Image
C-Kwik
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 9:28 pm
Car: 2013 Chevy Volt, 1991 Honda CRX DX

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby SX APPEAL » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:12 am

Personal position: There are always going to be good drivers out there (1%) And there are always going to be bad drivers out there (99%) So why don't we just try to let the bad drivers take care of themselves, and do our best to stay the f*** out of their way.

Logical, sober position: Is this legislation actually being enacted, or is it just being proposed? Because you know how we all like to get riled up over some pie in the sky bullsh*t that will never actually get passed, just cause shouting about it makes us feel alive inside...
SX APPEAL
User avatar
 
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:26 am
Location: KC Area, MO
Car: 95 S14 KA-T GT3076
-might run someday...
95 Maxima Daily
-blown headgasket...

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby IBCoupe » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:59 am

SX APPEAL wrote:Someone is too stupid to realize that the coffee in the cup is hot and burns themself, they sue McDonald's and now warning labels are required on all coffee cup lids.

Somewhere at McDonalds HQ, Mr. Burns thinks your post is excellent.

Probably the most famous "frivolous lawsuit" example of all time. No doubt you've heard of the lady that sued McDonald's because she spilled some hot coffee in her lap while driving. What a moron! you might have thought. How stupid do you have to be to not know coffee is hot? Americans these days! Blaming everyone but themselves for their mistakes!

It turns out there's a lot more to the story. First of all, the hot coffee wasn't just uncomfortable and embarrassing, it gave her third degree burns over six percent of her body, which required f**king skin grafts. You can see the burns yourself if you're not squeamish.

Secondly, coffee served at that temperature (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit) will give a person third-degree burns in two to seven seconds, while home-coffee brewers normally serve coffee at much lower temperatures (130 two 140 degrees) which won't immediately burn you. Yes, Starbucks and other joints do serve coffee at the hotter temperatures -- because some customers prefer it -- but then again, they get sued for it also. Thirdly, she attempted to settle for $20,000 at one point, and McDonald's refused, which is when she started getting cranky.

You may have heard that she got millions of dollars, when the final award was $640,000. Then from that you take out the medical bills (hint: skin grafts aren't cheap).

But she has to take some responsibility, right? She may not have been driving, but she was trying to open the lid in her lap so she could add cream and sugar. That's kind of careless, isn't it? Why couldn't the jury see that?

Well, they did. That's why the compensatory damages portion ($200,000) was reduced by 20 percent, because they ruled it was 20 percent her fault.

Even the Stella Awards website -- a site dedicated to rooting out silly lawsuits and named after Stella Liebeck herself as the symbol of what's wrong with our justice system -- admits all these facts are true.

So if you still want to argue about it, you have to admit this case isn't the joke most people play it off as in email forwards and know-it-all water cooler lectures.


Don't go looking for the pictures. Mutilated old lady genitals cannot be unseen.
IBCoupe
User avatar
 
Posts: 7430
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Location: DongGuan, Guangdong, China
Car: '08 Alti-Coupe 3.5SE; '05 'Rollolla

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby float_6969 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:58 am

C-Kwik wrote:Right, because drivers are never at fault for collisions with pedestrians. In which case, natural selection is working in reverse...perhaps we should add something to increase the effectiveness of that process:

Image....

Of course drivers are also at fault for some of the pedestrian injuries. I'd be willing to bet it's a lower percentage than the opposite, but regardless of the situation, why is the answer to change the VEHICLE to correct an issue with PEOPLE?
float_6969
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 16297
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (toy)
Mostly stock 1996 Mazda Miata MX5 M-Edition (wife's toy)
2003.5 Mazda Mazdaspeed Protege (lightly modded DD)

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby themadscientist » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm

Hey EU, FU.

I already have a pedestrian impact system. It's called a bumper. my autonomous braking system is my brain and my right foot.

In summation, FU.
Image

CA18, SR20, and RB20 bellhousings for sale!
ca-rb-and-sr-transmission-bellhousings-t566183.html
themadscientist
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 28189
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:30 pm
Location: Staring down at you with disdain from the spooky mountaintop castle.
Car: DR30 Skyline, 180SX, Daihatsu Hijet, NSR50

Re: Oh good! The EU saves the day again.

Postby MinisterofDOOM » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:48 pm

float_6969 wrote:why is the answer to change the VEHICLE to correct an issue with PEOPLE?


THIS!

Fix the problem, don't work around it.
MinisterofDOOM
Moderator
User avatar
 
Posts: 32544
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Idaho. Where the drivers are worse than the roads.
Car: 2005 Lincoln LS8


Return to General Chat