new lifters but still ticks

[240slidekat]

so i installed new lifters but they still tick? now what? im ready to set this car on fire.

[Cjmartz2k]

Umm, maybe not the lifters? It's not a Neo with solid lifters, is it?

[Carl H]

did you block off one of the oil feeds or put any restrictrors in it?

[eh?]

rod/piston knock? Noisy injectors?

Rb25 rebuild curse strikes again!

[GTRs13]

im ready to set this car on fire.

HA! Deal with DSM's for a decade, THEN talk about setting your car on fire!

Seriously, a little more info would help your diagnosis.

[neonbomb]

Id say torch it

[Darius]

Has the valve train been touched other than new lifters or cams?

Have you ever measured the valve lash to check that the buckets are riding on the cam?

[240slidekat]

Umm, maybe not the lifters? It's not a Neo with solid lifters, is it?

no its a series 1 rb25 head

did you block off one of the oil feeds or put any restrictrors in it?

no

rod/piston knock? Noisy injectors?

Rb25 rebuild curse strikes again!

definately not injectors or rod knock because i bled the previous lifters and they were actually quiet for a minute and back to ticking again. thats when i replaced the lifters because i though it was the lifters.

Has the valve train been touched other than new lifters or cams?

Have you ever measured the valve lash to check that the buckets are riding on the cam?

yea they were fine when i installed it, i cant measure it now because my lifters are collapsed again. my guess is its not getting oil somehow.

HA! Deal with DSM's for a decade, THEN talk about setting your car on fire!

Seriously, a little more info would help your diagnosis.

im getting oil pressure, about 12.5-13 psi at idle with a n1 oil pump, there is literally oil in the head, ive replaced the lifters with new ones but it looks like they are collapse again (being able to squeeze it with hand, not stiff). still ticks.

my guess is that the lifters is not getting oil somehow, like i stated earlier when i bled the old lifters it was able to not tick for a minute then it seems like when the lifters lost its pressure it was back to ticking again. where do the lifters get its oil? the oil galley? if it is somehow plugged then there would be no oil going to the head, correct? man im totally stumped!

[noodl35]

Seems like the lifters still have air in them or the valve lash is all out of wack. I'd take them out and seriously bleed them.

[eh?]

When is this happening? Have you driven it and it still ticked?

[240slidekat]

When is this happening? Have you driven it and it still ticked?

as soon as you start the car. no i have not driven it with the new lifters i had it running for 20 minutes to see if it goes away, i didnt want to drive it for the fear of messing up the new lifters. after that i removed the valve cover off and check the lifters with a screw driver and i was able to push them down easily.

[eh?]

as soon as you start the car. no i have not driven it with the new lifters i had it running for 20 minutes to see if it goes away, i didnt want to drive it for the fear of messing up the new lifters. after that i removed the valve cover off and check the lifters with a screw driver and i was able to push them down easily.

You just let it idle for 20 minutes? No reving at all?

[240slidekat]

You just let it idle for 20 minutes? No reving at all?

yea revved it also. even held it to 3000rpm for 5 minutes

[Darius]

The lifters should have definitely pumped up by now. They should automatically pump up with oil pressure. Which side of the head are the pumpy lifters on? Intake or mixed in?

I'm guessing that the oil passages to the head are obstructed or blocked somehow. What is the oil pressure at 3000 rpm? It should be like 80 psi when it is cold.

This is a long shot, but have you checked the oil level? Is it too high and entraining air in the oil? I can't think of anything else besides either the oil pump not building enough pressure or the head feed passages being completely blocked.

[240slidekat]

i can see that their is oil on the head where the cams are at, so would that elimate the blocked oil passage? as far as the oil level it is filled to the full mark on the dipstick. and the ticking is in both sides intake and exhaust.

i forgot what the oil pressure was at 3000rpm i think it was at 75psi warm i would have to double check.

[Shocker]

i can see that their is oil on the head where the cams are at, so would that elimate the blocked oil passage? as far as the oil level it is filled to the full mark on the dipstick. and the ticking is in both sides intake and exhaust.

i forgot what the oil pressure was at 3000rpm i think it was at 75psi warm i would have to double check.

You say that there is oil in the head, okay, that doesnt mean ALL the passages are open, a few might be blocked.

Remove your valve covers using a flat heat screw driver press down on the lifers that do not have the cam lob pressing down on them. (disconnect your CAS) Rotate the engine a bit each time to allow for other lifters to rise up as the cam lobe spins off of them. Find the lifters that are squishy, and note their location.

Just one flat lifter will get you that nice tapping noise. Its possible only on a portion of your passages could be blocked.

[240slidekat]

all intake and exhaust side lifters are squishy.

[eh?]

Did you buy those ebay lifters?Also what weight oil are you using?

[240slidekat]

Did you buy those ebay lifters?Also what weight oil are you using?

yea, im using 15-50. ive tried different weigh but still the same results.

[Darius]

The oil passage that feeds the lifters MUST be blocked for all of them to be squishy. There's no way ALL of the lifters would go "bad" at the same time. (Frankly, the only way these lifters go bad is if the ball check valve in them somehow gets damaged and bleeds oil past them at will, which is incredibly unlikely)

How it is getting oil to the head without getting it into the lifter supply passage is beyond me.

[240slidekat]

yea tell me about it. ive spent many hours thinking about it and can think of any possible answer. im to the point of retiring this project.

[Darius]

I have a feeling that you're going to have to pull the head to figure out what is going on. You'll need to verify that the oil feeds on the block are not clogged and that the passages in the head aren't either. Slap a new OEM head gasket on there with some ARP fasteners and put it back together.

[240slidekat]

i have already done that, i didnt see anything obstructing it and i even blew compress air through it and they seemed fine. it has arp head studs and cosworth hg.

[Shocker]

Has the head ever been hot tanked? This generally cleans out any possible clogs.

If none of your BRAND new lifters are filling with oil your passages are clogged somewhere. If I recall correctly the oil passage for the lifters runs down the entire length of the head as one passage, its just cut out where the lifters sit. I can look at my 25 head closer when I get home to verify.

You are running a 25 head with a 25 gasket on a 25 block right?

[Darius]

If I recall correctly the oil passage for the lifters runs down the entire length of the head as one passage, its just cut out where the lifters sit.

Exactly right.

[240slidekat]

Has the head ever been hot tanked? This generally cleans out any possible clogs.

If none of your BRAND new lifters are filling with oil your passages are clogged somewhere. If I recall correctly the oil passage for the lifters runs down the entire length of the head as one passage, its just cut out where the lifters sit. I can look at my 25 head closer when I get home to verify.

You are running a 25 head with a 25 gasket on a 25 block right?

correct

[240slidekat]

ok just thinking out of the box here, assuming that my oil feed galley on the block is somehow blocked, can i just use an external oil feed like the rb30 guys do?

does the oil feed for the VCT also feed the lifters? here is what i was thinking.

or this



or maybe even this



i really dont want to pull the engine other than to replace it. so i came down to these optionsA. make an external oil feed and hope it works if not then proceed to plan bB. get a long block and just have a stock motor instead of built.C. Retire the project and forget about it.

what do you guys think?

[Darius]

Did you blow compressed air thru the oil feed orifices in the block? There's one for the VTC and a second at about cylinder #3 on the intake side.

[240slidekat]

yep, how many oil feeds are there anyway?

[Darius]

If I remember correctly, there is one in front of cyl 1 and one in front of cyl 3 for a total of 2. There is another hole in front of cyl 5 but I am not sure if that is oil related.