Just purchased 2 weeks ago - have about 700 miles on it now. Most everything is fine with it - have 2 issues that I notice - the RMP range and that speed thing at 30 to 40 mph's - seems like Nissan would have addressed that by now. I don't think it is a problem just seems like there would have been a tech bullitin on it to tweak it by now. Also the Bose radio doesn't seem to be top notch if my ears are hearing it ok - but I can live with it. I guess I sound like I am whining but really I like this car - it handles like a dream / fit and finish are great / rides good and looks good also - think it is value for the money. Like to add body side mouldings soon - but never the less I expect to get door dings sooner or later.Also one other thing - does it have a light in that big glove box? Haven't driven at night yet.P.S. this is my first asian car - so I am still getting use to all the controls - at first everything seems a little backwards...

Welcome to the NICOClub Rogue Forums Robteesit!

Many have commented on the low rpm vibration issue. It is completely normal. Nissan has taken advantage of the CVT and programmed very high 'gears' for fuel economy while cruising.

If you have driven a 4 cylinder engine before, especially with a manual transmission, than you would have felt a very similar vibration every time you 'lug' the motor a bit in high gear at low speed. A 6 or 8 cyl engine would be much smoother under the same conditions. I can see how it would be somewhat annoying for some. I came from several 4cyl manual transmission cars, so I don't even notice it.

I can answer the BOSE question, bose never was top notch, is not top notch, and likely will never be top notch, go ask about Bose on any audiophile forum and they will tell you Bose = over priced junk. Bose's car audio has one saving grace over it's home version, which is it's not as overpriced.

Hey Philipa_240sx - thanks for the reply and I do agree about the lugging issue on the RMP range and 30 to 40Mph's, but I just can't belive any engineer worth there salt would purposely design a car to lug to save gas. Unless they had a back log of CVT transmissions they had to put in something they could have very well put in a manual transmission. I think this is a programing issue that probable wasn't address by the time the car launched. It most likely can be a quite easy fix if Nissan wanted to address it, but from they prespective, as long as they are selling the vehicle and they have a public that thinks its normal -they will probable just sit on their hands I supect. Now I am not a car engineer, and I could be all wet, but I know in the computer world you don't purposely program bugs in the system even if it helps the program save memory - if they is a flaw found usually a patch follows soon after.

Again I respectfully disagree that this is normal - if most people notice this lugging, I would think most people would just press harder on the gas pedal - hence I wouldn't think it would serve the purpose of saving gas. Just my two cents worth - and again I really think besides this it is a fun vehicle to drive. And I hope Nissan will soon look into this issue.

Ps. I just read in the manual that it does have a glove box light - that come on only when the headlight are on - see that is one of the things I think is backwards - but I'll get use to it....Excuse the rambling....Have a great day.

I drive a V6 Altima with the CVT tranny. I noticed it will quickly "shift" toward a "high gear" setting to conserve gas as soon as it feels you are accelerating at an acceptable normal rate. I am usually around 1100-1500 rpm if memory serves around 20-40 mph. While the vibration is just barely noticeable, it is there, but it does not bother, me, though I've always had automatic transmission cars before which do not go through this fuzzy area.

I think if what you are describing is simply the same thing happening with your 2.5 4 banger, then it is really just built that way to save gas, i.e. shifting toward a lower rpm range...now they COULD try to reduce the vibration associated with lower rpm operation, but that would just further complicate things with delicately designed balance shafts (which it already has btw) etc. The point being, if you're cruising along, or leveling off on the gas, it will continue on at this rpm range. Not sure if I'm rambling now myself.

About the glove box light being backward, I can see why you'd want the light to be on any time, however, it does make sense to have it turn on when your headlights are on.. in the dark, at night....and not during the day when your headlights are probably off, because it's bright enough? Well I understand the glove box being deep, can get dark and scary in there...

Just a few counter points to consider. And welcome to the light.

Morning CoupVQ35cvt - This is my first Japan car and maybe that is what the other side of the world considers normal - but I can't believe any good engineer would design a shudder like this in product on purpose. If gas saving was simply a requirement then why not just offer a manual transmission? Many other car manufactures do. Maybe they are trying to satisfy the EPA? As far as the gas saving arguement goes 23 combined mpg is not that great of mileage - I see where many other makes get way better highway miles with six speed automatics in them - Chevy equinox / Toyota camray / etc....

I love your loyalty, but I think the saving gas theroy is just that - your style of driving probably has more to do with saving gas then that flutter between 1200 and 1500 rpm's at between 30 and 40 mph.

As for the glove box sometimes I do look in the glove box when the car is not running to get something out - and it sure would be nice if I didn't have to turn the car on and the lights just to look in the glove box - oh well I guess I will carry a flash light huh?

Any way I will hope in the future that the number 3 manufacture in Japan gets there act together and offers a TBS on how to correct this in the near future. Until then I will enjoy my ride.

Did you happen to test drive the car or did you buy it over the internet? WTF is this thread all about? It's obvious you really don't own a Rogue

Ignore Rogueguy45, looks like he woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

Well if it is a shudder like you say, then that may be something else altogether. To be fair I only have a V6 that I've ever driven with a CVT and that's my Alti coupe, so I cannot say for certain if the 4 banger is inherently rough at low revs. It is quite possible you may have an issue there worth taking to the dealer if you can replicate it (I bet you they will say it's normal, so I'd sit in the driver seat and have the tech along for the ride just to be sure he sees this shuddering effect).

And yes sometimes my brain doesn't work. I understand what you mean by the glove box lighting up when your car is off and you just need to grab something. But hey carrying a flashlight could be good exercise, so maybe Nissan wants its customers to remain in good health? Aha! That's their secret to being successful.

Now now, let's compare apples to apples here. Chevy Equinox mpg:

http://autos.yahoo.com/2009_chevrolet_equinox/

That link clearly states 17/24 mpg. I highly, highly doubt your combined mpg with the 3600+ lb Equinox would be 23 mpg or any better than the <3300 lb Rogue given the same conditions. Unless you drove the Equinox mostly on the highway with very few stops @50-55 mph.

As for comparing the Rogue to the Toyota Camry? Come on now. Really? Let's compare a 4 banger sedan to a 3300 lbs SUV? Let's not even go there. Silly man.

As for 23 mpg, that is roughly the average a lot of the Rogue owners here have posted for mixed city/highway driving. Some have gotten mid to high 20s up to 25-29 mpg with mostly highway driving with some city.

I drive a V6 Altima and pay through the roof for premium gas. If I wanted to save gas I'd have gotten not the 2.5 even, I'd go for the Sentra 2.0. But we both know why we got our cars. To enjoy them as they are with the experience they offer.

In any case, enjoy your vehicle. I'm glad you are critical of your choice as I am, because nothing is more annoying then blind loyalty (and yes I'm pissed at Nissan for pretty much shafting some of its customers with the 1.8 and 2.5 engine issues that have been brought up in past 00-06 models, just as I am pissed at GM for making garbage for 100 years, including the 3 pieces of mechanical money pit satires my family drove for over 10 years from GM *cough* underpowered 40 year old technology 3.1 V6 Lumina head gasket *cough* FAIL).


Modified by CoupeVQ35CVT at 2:37 PM 8/6/2009

philipa_240sx wrote:

HAH...

Sorry nothing going on here.

Dude you're right, Chevy Equinox is a TERRIBLE PILE OF CRAP that DOES NOT get 23 mpg, the Rogue gets way better real world mileage.

And regarding the vibration issue, it definately is NOT a shudder/shake, it is a minor vibration that only the driver can feel through the steering wheel, it makes no sound and doesn't resonate through anything other than the steering wheel, passengers can't detect it. And I discovered this after about 5 minutes in to the my test drive, and I still bought the car so I don't really have anything to complain about, it's not as if it was hard to detect and it didn't start after I bought the car, so it's definately not a defect. If you have a severe vibration or even a shudder then you've got a different problem that you need to have looked at.

Hey fellow rogue owers ( CoupeVQ35CVT - I think we kinda a agree )- I didn't mean to start a fire storm - I was just stating an issue as I seen it. Some of people just have there point of view and can't see anything or anyone elses I guess. I should have pointed out that it is the 2010 equinox I was talking about - I test drove it before the Rogue, and I didn't like it with the 4 banger because it wouldn't pull that big vehicle. I also drove 2 other S model Rogues before settling on the SL model - I enjoy it more - Ok.

I really enjoy this little car but gosh I should be able to point out some things I think they could improve on - like the CVT? Read this forum - this is the main think most people have issues with - not problems issues. MSN auto review even states "a continuously variable transmission, which auto enthusiasts love to hate." All I am asking for is some software programming that mimics the gear ratios better.

Ah yes I looked at the 2010 Equinox now that you pointed it out. Quite impressive #s, hp wise and mpg wise. We will have to see how it works out practically. And as usual the weight INCREASED yet another 100 lbs. Haha. 32mpg though, wow. Not bad.

And yes I'm sure the CVT could use a software upgrade as most things can use improvement. I just wouldn't know how or what could be done so I guess I'm clueless how it would be after such an upgrade. Will be interesting, seeing as they have been improving it slowly since '07 from what I understand.

Robteesit, excellent point, you are exactly right that is the point of this discussion and you bring up a good issue, even though I was defending the specific vibration issue, I feel the CVT could use some improvements. The thing I specifically dislike is the surge or shock feeling on occaision when the torque converte engages or disengages. At just the right RPM when gently accelerating or gently decelerating this effect will really "kick" and "surge" almost like shift shock in a conventional tranny. It only does this when driving with a very light touch. I really hate this feature and to me it feels like it's "not right" and that it could be causing excessive wear and tear. As a result, I drive a little more agressively and less fuel efficiently to avoid this surge or jolt. So yes, I agree the CVT could be improved and if it didn't offer better fuel efficiency I would see no advantage to it over a convetional or even a 6 speed manul.

So if I or anybody else on here made you feel like you were being attacked for sharing your viewpoint and contributing to the discussion, I apologize. This forum is about discussing issues, problems as well as positive things about the Rogue and none of this should be taken personally. Keep posting please!

Thanks guys ( Kerrton - CoupeVQ35CVT - philipa_240sx ) Thought I had joined the wrong forum for a moment - (that I was in a health care forum or something) Anyway thanks for acknowledging my point of veiw and I appreciate the kind words Kerrton and Coupe. Maybe I will listen for a while just to keep the masses calm....Also Philipa_240sx It does look like a great forum appreciate all the hard work put into keeping it up.

p.s. I will post a picture of my Rouge when I read up on how to do it.

kerrton wrote:Robteesit, excellent point, you are exactly right that is the point of this discussion and you bring up a good issue, even though I was defending the specific vibration issue, I feel the CVT could use some improvements. The thing I specifically dislike is the surge or shock feeling on occaision when the torque converte engages or disengages. At just the right RPM when gently accelerating or gently decelerating this effect will really "kick" and "surge" almost like shift shock in a conventional tranny. It only does this when driving with a very light touch. I really hate this feature and to me it feels like it's "not right" and that it could be causing excessive wear and tear. As a result, I drive a little more agressively and less fuel efficiently to avoid this surge or jolt. So yes, I agree the CVT could be improved and if it didn't offer better fuel efficiency I would see no advantage to it over a convetional or even a 6 speed manul.

So if I or anybody else on here made you feel like you were being attacked for sharing your viewpoint and contributing to the discussion, I apologize. This forum is about discussing issues, problems as well as positive things about the Rogue and none of this should be taken personally. Keep posting please!

+1 on the shock thing.

I didn't at first think or realize the CVT still utilized a torque converter like an auto (but it makes sense as it has to disengage the engine at some point when you stop!). Aren't those things supposed to be the reason why auto's don't get as good mpg and have more hp powertrain loss? Or is this more of an auto "clutch" type tc? But yes at low throttle especially in traffic when coasting and then hitting the gas again, I too feel this bit of a shock. It makes me feel like I'm damaging the car (well, wearing it faster, and stuff).

CoupeVQ35CVT wrote: I didn't at first think or realize the CVT still utilized a torque converter like an auto (but it makes sense as it has to disengage the engine at some point when you stop!).

Jatco (who makes the CVT) designed it with a torque converter for exactly that reason. However, unlike a conventional auto, the torque converter 'locks up' at a very low speed (<20mph) to improve fuel economy. Regular autos lock up as well, but at much higher speeds. The torque converter also provides smooth acceleration from a standstill.

As for fuel efficiency, Nissan/Jatco claims the CVT actually has better fuel economy than even a manual transmission. There are fewer moving parts, the oil pump for the hydraulics takes next to no power, and the overdrive gearing is much higher than most manuals.

Honestly, Jatco has probably the most advanced CVT's in the world having sold more than 1 million worldwide. When the Rogue first came out, many car reviewers commented on how well tuned and programmed the CVT was. It felt a lot more like a regular transmission. The competition wasn't even close.

A good friend of mine had a Mini Cooper (the new one) with the CVT. Don't ask how many times they brought that car in for reprogramming. Every few months BMW would release another software update to fix driveability issues. In the end BMW gave up and put a regular auto in the Mini.

kerrton wrote: The thing I specifically dislike is the surge or shock feeling on occasion when the torque converter engages or disengages. At just the right RPM when gently accelerating or gently decelerating this effect will really "kick" and "surge" almost like shift shock in a conventional tranny.

To philipa_240sx (and others in the know):Does this "shock or kick" feeling only involve the AWD models?

I have a SL with FWD and drive an equal mix of "easy gentle Sunday afternoon drives" as well as flooring it off a traffic lights to get ahead of slow moving trucks... as well as the aggressive, "Get the heck out of my way I'm late for work", kind of driving as I push the Rogue to its limits. I can honestly say I've never felt a vibration or felt my CVT shift like a conventional transmission... let alone a "shock or kick".

In adjusting to the Rogue (my fist experience with a CVT) the only sensation I could describe is something similar to a slipping clutch in a manual transmission. (i.e. when the RPMS climb the roof but there is no discernable evidence of acceleration, but rather a gradual increase in speed over several seconds until the vehicle reaches the desired speed.)

If my Rogue was kicking, shocking and vibrating... I'd be a little concerned.

"Japan Car" LOL. Name an "American Car" that is not mostly made overseas or in Mexico.

This thread is pure rocket science
Modified by RogueGuy45 at 12:33 PM 8/8/2009

Elton Noway wrote:
To philipa_240sx (and others in the know):Does this "shock or kick" feeling only involve the AWD models?

I have a SL with FWD and drive an equal mix of "easy gentle Sunday afternoon drives" as well as flooring it off a traffic lights to get ahead of slow moving trucks... as well as the aggressive, "Get the heck out of my way I'm late for work", kind of driving as I push the Rogue to its limits. I can honestly say I've never felt a vibration or felt my CVT shift like a conventional transmission... let alone a "shock or kick".

In adjusting to the Rogue (my fist experience with a CVT) the only sensation I could describe is something similar to a slipping clutch in a manual transmission. (i.e. when the RPMS climb the roof but there is no discernable evidence of acceleration, but rather a gradual increase in speed over several seconds until the vehicle reaches the desired speed.)

If my Rogue was kicking, shocking and vibrating... I'd be a little concerned.

I agree with this. I have never felt any kind of vibration from my Rogue, it is smooth as silk with 3800 miles on it. It does lug the engine a little between 30-40 mph but that's why it averages 26mpg for me, the engine rpms stay low. I can see someone who likes easy acceleration getting frustrated with that part of it, but how did they not notice it on the test drive?

I love the car just the way it is, it was exactly what I was looking for and it has exceeded all my expectations.

philipa_240sx wrote:
Jatco (who makes the CVT) designed it with a torque converter for exactly that reason. However, unlike a conventional auto, the torque converter 'locks up' at a very low speed (<20mph) to improve fuel economy. Regular autos lock up as well, but at much higher speeds. The torque converter also provides smooth acceleration from a standstill.

As for fuel efficiency, Nissan/Jatco claims the CVT actually has better fuel economy than even a manual transmission. There are fewer moving parts, the oil pump for the hydraulics takes next to no power, and the overdrive gearing is much higher than most manuals.

Honestly, Jatco has probably the most advanced CVT's in the world having sold more than 1 million worldwide. When the Rogue first came out, many car reviewers commented on how well tuned and programmed the CVT was. It felt a lot more like a regular transmission. The competition wasn't even close.

A good friend of mine had a Mini Cooper (the new one) with the CVT. Don't ask how many times they brought that car in for reprogramming. Every few months BMW would release another software update to fix driveability issues. In the end BMW gave up and put a regular auto in the Mini.

Hey thanks for the explanation. I was aware of the inherent theoretical advantage in mpg, but totally forgot about the TC issue. Also didn't know about the TC lock up @ 20 mph or so, I was under the impression it was more like a regular auto in that sense.

Haha... Your anecdote about the Mini reminds me of how patches are released about every month for the online game WoW...perpetually never ending.

Wow - I just re-read this post and did I ever get bashed here... maybe I didn't clearly express my concerns earlier. The original point I was trying to make in my previous post on this thread was that I thought a simple programing update could probably fix the issue I had - and that I thought any good engineer would not purposely design a car or the computer program to act this way just to save gas. IMO I didn't agree that it was normal. Any way got a letter from Nissan North America today - saying the are offering a Voluntary Service Campaign "software update" for a subtle noise (I called it lugging or shudding I think) that may come from the transmission at low speeds " . Thanks Nissan engineers ---

Will you let me know how your handle after this software upgrade? if it gets rid of it I'd want it done on my 2010 too.

Robteesit:

Read my post under CVT rattle. The TCM/ECM programming is the real fix, not replacing one CVT after the other after the other.

Ed

anyone got any info as to whether the Canadian dealers have got this CVT reprogramming update??

got an appointment to get the other recalls looked at next week

Yes, they've got it (at least mine does). I would have had it done yesterday along with the TPMS fix, but their "computer was down"

harryg wrote:anyone got any info as to whether the Canadian dealers have got this CVT reprogramming update??

got an appointment to get the other recalls looked at next week

Someone on my grocery parking told me that. They will get a VCT reprogramming update!!!

Anyone have more information about this?

Read the last page or so of the CVT Rattle Thread:

zer...ge=20

More information is also posted in the Tech Bulletins thread (the link is in the Official Rogue FAQ). Read NTB09-126:

zerothread/340557

Robteesit wrote:Wow - I just re-read this post and did I ever get bashed here... maybe I didn't clearly express my concerns earlier.

After reading it, I don't think anyone except RogueGuy45 was bashing anyone else. That is, unless you consider people not agreeing with you to be "bashing". I think it's just a matter of perspective. CVT issues have definitely not been the same all across every Rogue produced. Some people have gone through several replacements. Other haven't even had a replacement CVT. For some the lugging/shuddering is an issue. For others its not so much.

People can only relay their own experiences and they may not jive with your own. Just because someone doesn't experience or think that something is an issue when you do doesn't necessarily mean that they're blindly loyal to Nissan though it is a possibility. You should visit some of the other forum sites I frequent where fanboys are truly rampant.

In my own experience the CVT has been very good though I am lead footed. I will agree, however, that it could stand some tweaking as there have been odd moments -- especially with AWD lock engaged.

On the topic of BOSE, though, I have to agree with those that say that you can tell it's not top notch when you see that brand. I have some old 201 speakers from them at home that aren't too bad but their current products are just overpriced IMO. The BOSE system in our Rogue is better than stock but it's certainly not better than what you can get in the aftermarket... but that's seems to have been true when for every factory system that I've owned.
Modified by takeshi at 8:58 AM 12/18/2009

I agree Takeshi, good point and way to back up Robteesit.

I think Robteesit is exactly what we need around here - an intelligent, well infromed opinion that stimulated an alternate train of thought and lots of conversation - food for thought and in a respectful way. And as a matter of fact, I agreed with his post about the strange CVT programming feature focussed on efficiency at the sacrifice of comfort (i.e. vibrations).

Robteesit, I also don't think anyone intentionally bashed you, but if you felt that way I'd just like to encourage you to let it roll of your back and continue on posting, you're a good addition to these discussions and we're happy to have you around.