do you spend a lot of time below 1400 rpm?

cause unless you do, the power is damn instantaneous.

Kendahl wrote:The lower the gear, the greater the torque multiplication and the stronger the acceleration. Compare Car & Driver's acceleration times in top gear with their times going through the gears. That's a lot of time to spend in the on-coming lane, potentially playing chicken with an 18-wheeler. Personally, I won't be satisfied with anything less than instantaneous teleportation.

Yes but with more power on tap at any rpm range it dosen't matter which gear we are comparring both of them at, the BMW would have the advantage as long as both have relatively similar gearing.

I tried searching for 50-70mph times on road and track, car and driver, this is the best article I could find comparing at least the dyno from both on the same sheet.

Again I am a huge fan of the new and old G, and I realize this is a Nissan based forum so there is obviously going to be a bit of biasesness towards the mother brand.

Rubin

Kendahl wrote:The lower the gear, the greater the torque multiplication and the stronger the acceleration. Compare Car & Driver's acceleration times in top gear with their times going through the gears. That's a lot of time to spend in the on-coming lane, potentially playing chicken with an 18-wheeler. Personally, I won't be satisfied with anything less than instantaneous teleportation.

Here is the closest I can get to finding "real world driving" comarrison. It's also very un biased.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aK8_DkEmLyo

G37= Better techology tidbits and an "Impressive BMW Wannabe"

Thats the quote from the end of the video....

Rubin

MOTORTREND's reputation was dealt a HUGE BLOW. The entire automotive industry was shocked that MT published this article. I got feedback from several insiders at different car companies and journalist in the field about this. Let me explain why.1- Infiniti "PROCURED" the BMW for the test. I've been reading 3 different car magazines on a weekly basis for 20 years. How often do you see the a car company bring the competition with them. MT was ok with that! Bad mistake.2- Infiniti isn't stupid. There is a measureable (I'm being politically correct here) difference in performance between the 2 cars. BMW is faster, period, so INfniti brings a car to the test that they know has mechanical problems. How do they know this, because they did the same test for EDMUNDS and got the same result. The car got hot during testing and went into limp mode. How do you beat a bigger, strong, faster, smoother, better trained fighter in hand to hand combat? You fight him when he has a broken leg!!! The reputation of Infiniti has been tarnished and the only ones that refuse to hold them accoutable are die hard INFINITI owners that are too loyal to see the truth.

3- The BMW that INFINITI brought to the test was an early model automatic and BMW didn't install oil coolers on the early model automatics. They have since corrected that and retrofitted the first few months production that went out without them. So the car gets hot, goes into Limp mode, Infiniti wins because the competitor got hot and the ECU put the motor into limp mode. That is a CROCK. You can blame BMW all you want about putting the car out without the oil cooler, and you would be right. They deserved what they got, I agree there, but INFINITI came out of this way worse.Infiniti was dishonest with the public, and with MT by doing this. They couldn't fight a fair fight since they had lost to the 335 so many other times that they had to resort to this. This is a fact, and I've confirmed this with SEVERAL high level people in the automotive industry, but it was pretty obvious when I read the article that something wasn't right.

I'm an INFINITI owner (and LOVE it) and considering the new G37 at the time the article came out. I had already read at least 5 other comparos that all favored the 335, some by a wide margin. So when I saw the headlines, THE KING IS DEAD, I got excited and though, finally, Infiniti did it!Well, instead they embarrased me, themselves, and lost a tremendous amount of credibility in the automotive world. My contacts said it didn't suprise them at all, that the CEO of Nissan/INfiniti is a "WHATEVER IT TAKES" type of guy. He applies that philosophy to manufacturer/production costs too, which is why Nissan has been dropping in all the QUALITY reports the last few years.

The BMW is the better car- Better performance (acceleration, handling, brakes), better warranty (including maintenance for 50k), better seats, better and more refined ride, MUCH better clutch engagement, 6spd vs 5spd tranny, MUCH better back seat (more leg and head room, ac vents, arm rest, map lights, courtesy lights, etc), and most of all, averages 3+ mpg better fuel economy. It's also 5-7k more so it should be better!

INFINITI is a better bang for the buck- nicer interior, great powertrain warranty, solid performance.

If you look at any of the consumer sites, JD POWER, CONSUMER REPORTS, etc. The infiniti g35/g37 and bmw 3 series score very evenly, very good across the board. Both are recommended with JD power giving the edge to BMW.

And before you start knocking the oil cooler issue too much, let's not forget about the MAJOR problems people have been experiencing on the G35's. Hundreds of engines have failed due to internal OIL leak causing the engine to BURN up all the oil and cook the motor. NISSAN/INFINITI havne't acknowleged the problem yet, and there are HUNDRED if not THOUSANDS more that will be affected in future months/years. Remember, this problem isn't on the first year model, it's on 2006's too. And what about the tire scalloping problem causing tremendous road noise (tire roar) and requiring premature replacement of tires, very expensive. There is a class action suit against Nissan and any day, they will file the one against INFINITI for the same problem.

So, upon hearing all of this and spending DOZENS of hours talking to people in the industry (NOT BMW), I decided to consider the 335. I drove the G35, read tons of reviews on the G37 (all very positive) and then drove the 335. I'm not kidding when I tell you the difference was shocking. It wasn't even close for me. Everything I read was true + some.The torque in that twin turbo motor just made it perform like a European V8. The car has great pickup from 1800 rpm in about any gear WITHOUT DOWNSHIFTING. It's really incredible.Then, I looked into MODIFYING the motor and found out that with a simple ECU flash or piggy back system, the car is as faster or faster than adding a turbo to the G35 (which cost around $8000 for all parts and labor). And when you mod a G35, you void all warranties. When you do a piggy back or ECU flash on the 335, you don't (unless you take it into the dealer with the piggy back on, but I'm getting a DINAN flash and have confirmed with 2 local BMW dealers it does NOT void any warranty). Also, the G37 has such high compression, it will be more expensive and much more difficult to modify than the G35. So....in the BMW 335, you have a SUPER FAST world class car, with full warranties, and will all the refinement and reliability of a stock production car. It just became a NO CONTEST, so I bought one. 9 months after coming out, the 335 Coupe is still selling at MSRP all over the country. That should tell you something.

Modified by joeygott at 2:16 PM 8/21/2007
Modified by joeygott at 2:46 PM 8/21/2007

Good thing that "broken legged" BMW only made it into Infiniti's hands.

Let's remember, that car could just as easily have gone to a CUSTOMER.

I don't vehemently disagree with most of what you're saying above, but I've had my ear to the rail in this industry for quite some time, and the fact that THAT car made it to a dealer lot tells me more than I need to know.

On a side note, I hear a lot of "praise" from the BMW faithful about their 50K mile "full maintenance" program. Let's not forget where that came from and WHY... You're in the know, it's no secret. That's where your extra $5-7K comes from.

What's truly disappointing about this is that neither automaker has stepped up to OBLITERATE the other. They're both employing measures to "edge out" the other, when it'd be much more rewarding (albeit costly) to build a car in which there's NO question. Neither company has done that, yet I think both are capable....

Quite a few made their way into CUSTOMERS hands but in all the forums I've been watching since buying the 335, with all the critical comments by BMW owners about BMW letting those cars go without the oil coolers, NOT ONE person complained of the car getting so hot as to the computer going into LIMP mode to protect the engine. I'm not defending BMW here, just putting the problem into perspective. There are thousands of auto 335's that are running very warm, but not hot enough to shut down and all those people are getting the retrofit kit at no charge and some have been able to negotiate the 100k warranty due to the inconvenience.

The full maintenance warranty is nice and was a marketing move that has paid off very well for BMW. Their sales have been up double digit every year for quite a few years now. That maintenance doesn't cover the 15+% price difference. Think about it. If BMW changed their policy tomorrow and dropped the price 15% on their cars and stopped with the full maintenance, would they sell more or less cars? WAY MORE. So I agree partially with what you said, but that doesn't explain the price difference. The cars are better, and in most cases, have superior mechnical engineering and use more expensive materials. Throw in the maintenance and now you have the 15-20% price difference. MOTORTREND said it best a few months ago when they said, THE BMW CHASSIS MUST BE MAGIC, IF NOT, OTHER CAR COMPANIES WOULD HAVE COPIED IT BY NOW.I agree that both companies have the ability and technology to build pretty much whatever they want. I think both have showed signs of it, BMW with their M cars (dominant in their class) and Nissan with the GTR. Should make for some GREAT car reviews in 2008.

I agree with your comments to a point. We are talking road cars with factory suspension so again, we have to put all this in perspective.You mention that after a race on a race track that their might only be only a 1 sec difference. I will remind you, all the magazines show an avg of 1-1.7 seconds difference just going from 0-100mph. You don't think BMW would add to that on a track? Remember, the 335 beat the M3 on a track test and beat it by 1.2 seconds due to it's NEUTRAL handling. A few mags have run the G37 and 335 on a small track and the BMW builds a solid lead pretty quickly.But to me, all that is irrelevent since most people don't race them anyways. For everyday driving (I've now driven both the G and 335 extensively), the 335 is faster, smoother, MUCH better clutch, tighter, better seat, and with that torque, just amazing. Interior is definitely better in the G, no doubt, but BMW interior is still nice and very functional, just very plain looking and hard.
Modified by joeygott at 3:30 PM 8/21/2007

Uhm...Dyno tests have shown the 335i is putting down quite a bit more HP than BMW is claiming. I hope you are on the BMW forums screaming at them how you are ashamed of BMW for intentionally posting false numbers.

No? Didn't think you would. Just come here and slam the Infiniti product instead.

joeygott wrote:I agree with your comments to a point. We are talking road cars with factory suspension so again, we have to put all this in perspective.You mention that after a race on a race track that their might only be only a 1 sec difference. I will remind you, all the magazines show an avg of 1-1.7 seconds difference just going from 0-100mph. You don't think BMW would add to that on a track? Remember, the 335 beat the M3 on a track test and beat it by 1.2 seconds due to it's NEUTRAL handling. A few mags have run the G37 and 335 on a small track and the BMW builds a solid lead pretty quickly.But to me, all that is irrelevent since most people don't race them anyways. For everyday driving (I've now driven both the G and 335 extensively), the 335 is faster, smoother, MUCH better clutch, tighter, better seat, and with that torque, just amazing. Interior is definitely better in the G, no doubt, but BMW interior is still nice and very functional, just very plain looking and hard.

Modified by joeygott at 3:30 PM 8/21/2007

Extensive testing of both? lol. Test drives are very extensive! Why do you come to Infiniti forums anyways? I don't see your reasons why. I'm assuming that since you were banned at G35driver, now you're just here? I have a feeling in the near future you will be on Freshalloy. Go bother them.

- Yimbie

Doesn't it seem a little harsh for you to bash someone who apparently owns an infiniti and a bmw and is just giving his honest opinions? What's the big deal? I mean you come into this and just bash the guy...did you even read what he said. I had a friend once who had a seizure in the middle of my humanities class who drove a bmw...do I hate him for that? No, of course not; but I wouldn't drive with him after that. Anyway, it's very late here and I'm sure that this isn't coming across exactly as I meant it...let's just not start trouble with people just because we don't agree with them; really, what's the harm if this guy thinks his bmw is better than his infinit or if my old friend from hs had a seizure while driving or if my best man and I bumped into some friends at Backstreets on a Sunday night???? Who cares!!! Let's drive and enjoy our cheaper cars while the night is still young.

It's the continuation of another thread and not something that is common on this forum.

Welcome to NICO and I hope you don't judge the site from one thread.

QuestFamilyof6 wrote:Doesn't it seem a little harsh for you to bash someone who apparently owns an infiniti and a bmw and is just giving his honest opinions? What's the big deal? I mean you come into this and just bash the guy....

Because he trolls the Nissan/Infiniti forums to stir the pot.

If you read his rants in the other thread, you would see why it can be tiresome.

My posts are tiresome, no doubt, for me to. Who do you think is typing all that stuff up???But listen, just stating the facts, no big deal. You don't hear me trashing the G, saying BMW is the best manufacturer, etc. Simply commenting on comparison between 2 models, G vs 335.Notice the comments back to me that I should have a problem with the HP on the BMW being understated? Why would anyone have an issue with that? The SAE allows a margin for error plus and minus. Wouldn't you love it if you found out YOUR car was understated and actually produced MORE HP than advertised? Perhaps you guys are just upset that the new G37 in several tests, is no faster than the old G. Several magazines have praised it for being more refined than old G, but that the additional weight offset the additional HP.

Notice how none of you actually address any of my points because I back it up with proof. You guys would rather attack me personally. That is fine.YIMBIE- so you think I just went and test drove 2 cars and made a decision based on that? Ignorant bro. Yes, extensive, hundreds of miles on each. I know you won't admit it, but it should be pretty obvious I know what I'm talking about.

YIMBIE.....

I was banned on G35driver because I made a dumbazzez out of several of your regulars and then they complained about it. Go back and look at my postings. Except for somebody who started bad mouthing the UNITED STATES (which I defended with personal attacks), I never initiated any of the foul language and hate which was thrown my way by a few punks.Like I said on the other thead, I was back on g35driver 5 min later.I'm only on these sites because I spent the last few months on them while trying to find a 2006 Black G35 and educating myself on the G37. Now that I bought the 335, I have no need for the sites, but I at least wanted to corrrect the facts so that people visiting the site aren't brainwashed by the overwhelming amount of BS which is being posted as if they are facts. Not everyone is doing it, but many are.

Modified by joeygott at 7:07 AM 8/22/2007
Modified by joeygott at 8:19 AM 8/22/2007

joeygott wrote:My posts are tiresome, no doubt, for me to. Who do you think is typing all that stuff up???But listen, just stating the facts, no big deal. You don't hear me trashing the G, saying BMW is the best manufacturer, etc. Simply commenting on comparison between 2 models, G vs 335.Notice the comments back to me that I should have a problem with the HP on the BMW being understated? Why would anyone have an issue with that? The SAE allows a margin for error plus and minus. Wouldn't you love it if you found out YOUR car was understated and actually produced MORE HP than advertised?

Point taken. Realize your posts were taken as insinuation of intentional misconduct on the part of Nissan/Infiniti and MT which was backed by numerous comments ending with your statements against Goshen. Not that I'm a fan since he has dropped the ball again due to wasting time positioning his venture with US automakers (doomed to fail). Regardless of your intent, your posts came off as rambling unwarrented attacks and were acted on accordingly.

joeygott wrote:Perhaps you guys are just upset that the new G37 in several tests, is no faster than the old G. Several magazines have praised it for being more refined than old G, but that the additional weight offset the additional HP.

Maybe, maybe not. I believe the version tested included rear steer which would have made it heavier and it is only listed as 100lbs more than the '06/07 G35 coupe. The proof will be when owners get a chance to break in the motor properly and see what non pre-production models can do. IMO, 32hp more should easily make up for the additional 100lbs

joeygott wrote:Notice how none of you actually address any of my points because I back it up with proof. You guys would rather attack me personally. That is fine.YIMBIE- so you think I just went and test drove 2 cars and made a decision based on that? Ignorant bro. Yes, extensive, hundreds of miles on each. I know you won't admit it, but it should be pretty obvious I know what I'm talking about.

You tested the 335i vs a G35 if I remember your reply. The G37 is a bit different. Yes, I've road tested the G35 Coupe, the '07 G35 Sport Sedan and the G37 Coupe so I'm not clueless concerning the differences in models.

Personal attacks against you came after you started calling us (me in particular) idiots and stupid. Similar to you calling Bryan ignorant in the reply I just quoted. If you want to discuss issues here, this is NOT the way to do it and it won't be tolerated. Realize I am not attacking you here, just stating facts as they pertain to these forums.

joeygott wrote:I'm only on these sites because I spent the last few months on them while trying to find a 2006 Black G35 and educating myself on the G37. Now that I bought the 335, I have no need for the sites, but I at least wanted to corrrect the facts so that people visiting the site aren't brainwashed by the overwhelming amount of BS which is being posted as if they are facts. Not everyone is doing it, but many are.

People are going to believe what they want. You have no control nor power to sway their opinion by trying to force your opinion on them. You can either try and have an intelligent conversation with them to bring up your points and let it go from there or you can go into a rant and piss people off, like you did here. One approach allows you to get your point across while the other.........

Regardless of anything, Infiniti has gone from "nothing" to a contender in 4 years. That's quite a step up in my book.

man, i would love to get into this, but there is just to much to read.

take deep breaths and get to the point.

Thought you all would get a kick out of this.....Picked up my black on black 6MT today, and stopped at Starbucks on my drive home this evening. As I pulled in, I saw this car take a sharp turn into the parking lot and pull up beside me. The guy got out of his 335i and began asking questions about my 37....didn't know they were out yet...that's a sweet ride....nice color...can i look inside....I was cordial, and complimented him on his 335i...but it wasn't the G37 driver going out of my way to check out the 335i

Problem with the 335i is it looks like the rest of them.....

The 335 is an all new body and doesnt' look anything like it's predecessor. It might look like a smaller looking 6 series, but it doesn't look like all the rest. This, coming from the G camp whose G37 looks like almost exactly like the G35.The G is completely different, looks diff, diff body, diff motor, etc.The g37 is just a more voluptuous g35 with a little added power to haul around it's fatter proportions.

The 335 is simply a more rounded style than previous gens. Look at it compared to the '98-ish 323is. The G is a 2nd gen based off a 4yo design, not a 10+ year look.

IMO of course and I know your opinion differs.

more rounded?

all the newer cars, brought by the new designer, have many more peaks and angles.

joeygott wrote: Now that I bought the 335, I have no need for the sites, but I at least wanted to corrrect the facts so that people visiting the site aren't brainwashed by the overwhelming amount of BS which is being posted as if they are facts. Not everyone is doing it, but many are.

Thanks Joey. It's a good thing those bimmer sites are so objective and have all facts about their cars and how they compare to Infiniti....

If anyone comes to an Infiniti site and expects everything to be completely objective, they have to be pretty ignorant, and the same goes for any site that is a fan site for a specific brand of car. But as a former BMW owner, I can tell you that this site is far more objective about cars than most bimmer sites out there. People on this site for the most part actually like all cars, not just Infiniti's, while many if not most bimmer fans feel that the bimmer is king and every one else's cars suck. If this site is slightly biased towards Infiniti or Nissan products, then that's a good balance for people researching these cars assuming they are going to the BMW sites too.

CheersTamir

ca18datsun510 wrote:more rounded?

all the newer cars, brought by the new designer, have many more peaks and angles.

OK... Does "not as square looking" make you happy?

Good post and spot-on, IMO

I don't expect everyone to like Infiniti nor Nissan products, just like I don't care for some other manufacturers products. Seems BMW owners get bent out of shape if someone does not like their cars.

Oh well....It is what it is

I like a wide variety of vehicles, some of which don't even appeal to "enthusiasts".

However, I'm always a little wary when some magazine touts a car as "Perfection!", because I've driven many of these so-called "pinnacles of engineering" and been struck by the utter obviousness of certain flaws and shortcomings.

Then again, we've been "trained" to believe that automotive journalists, by title alone, are somehow more "knowledgeable" than we enthusiasts.

And THEN I remind myself that I've probably built more cars than half of them, I've probably driven for longer than half of them, have fone to more automotive events than half of them, and I'm no less an "automotive journalist" than half of them - We certainly have a bigger "circulation" than most print mags.

So that puts it all in perspective.

I thought it would be fun to look back at this thread, three and a half years later.

This thread remains the most-trafficked, most-linked, and most bookmarked thread EVER on NICO.

It single-handedly nearly DOUBLED traffic to the site the following day, and was responsible for our largest daily influx of new member registrations.

It also crashed our server, resulting in a major scramble to upgrade soon after the article hit the web.

Kinda cool, huh?

Except the BMW still has more "real" power, still is a tad faster (dependent on circumstance), has fixed their oil problem, yet is still about $10k more than the G. Granted, the IPL is coming out at 348hp but I would still like to see the next-gen G in the >400hp range.

Was a good day tho.

As a guy that drove BMWs for over a decade I was certain that I was going to purchase a 335 for my next daily driver until I read this very article. As a result, Infiniti came onto my radar as a viable option, and two years later when I was comparing new cars the G37 edged out BMW and sedans from 4 other manufacturers.

audtatious wrote:Except the BMW still has more "real" power, still is a tad faster (dependent on circumstance), has fixed their oil problem, yet is still about $10k more than the G. Granted, the IPL is coming out at 348hp but I would still like to see the next-gen G in the >400hp range.

Was a good day tho.

BMW ended up on the low end of reliability. Since they still can't figure out the fuel pump issue. Now they have the 55 and the 54 engine. The TT only goes to the sport model and the single turbo goes in the rest of the 335.

Botto line it is a nice car. If people like it and don't care about reliability than it is a nice car to own and hack of a deal to boost it. Also people forget the G sedan is bigger than the 335 sedan.

I don't get the rabid "us vs them" mentality in motoring (and other places for that matter). Show me any Infiniti or any BMW and I'll show you an excellent car that anyone in their right mind would be happy to drive. Personal favorites of course come into play, but really they're both excellent vehicles. No auto is perfect, but these cars are pretty perfect for the price range. The fact that they get people so passionate should be the key tip-off to that fact.

Just mine opine.