Lexus LFA- what's Toyota trying to say here?

[dmuramoto]

While Nissan Sport wasn't, for obvious reasons, invited to the launch of the 2011 Lexus LFA (at the Nordschleife, no less) it raises some interesting questions. While the composite chassis is extraordinarily light (3,256 lbs) and has a great power-to-weight ratio with a dry sump V-10 (554 horsepower), it seems strange that Toyota would debut their halo car at this point.

After all, it's been in development for almost three years and has even raced twice, at the 2008 and 2009 24 Hours of the 'Ring. Wouldn't you think the Big T could have picked a better time in the worldwide economy to debut a limited edition supercar? It's also noticiable that, despite plenty of time at the track, no testing times have been released and none of the car magazines mention it in their articles.

Maybe it's the RWD configuration, but if I was paying FOUR times (around $280K) more than a GT-R, I'd sure want some assurances that a factory hotshoe at least got within a whiff of the R35's laptimes. I suspect for all the vaunted features of the LFA, it would be in the rear mirrors of a production GT-R at the 'Ring. Maybe it's just an anomoly for Lexus/Toyota, but for all the development costs to put it into production (with maybe 150 sales in the U.S.), I don't understand why that money was so easily spent. Toyota just pulled the plug on their F1 program, obstensively to save some money for the company. Now it is offering a car to the super rich. Mixed and confused messages, or is it just me?

[dmuramoto]

The latest news is that Toyota is planning to lease the LFA in the U.S. to prevent speculators from taking advantage. Offering a two year lease with the option to purchase at the end is a novel idea. Still, I wonder how many North American owners (with millions in their pockets) are going to go for THAT.

[audtatious]

As a Nissan fan, I simply don't see anything with the LFA that makes it worth 4+ GT-R's....

[SteveTheTech]

Although I personally have no experience with the supercar market the EX35 forum and my current condo have allowed me to meet and get to know more than one person who is deeply involved in the market. Super cars can depreciate at ~25% in the first year so leasing seems like an interesting option so that if market demand for the car plummets the owners are still financially inclined to keep one. Leasing though just seems weird, most new owners self finance or arrange financing without using the financing offered from the dealer. The only thing I can think is they are aiming to a market that cannot actually afford the car they designed but would love to drive the car they want to build.

Toyota isn't a bad company they are just so very boring and have been since the days when they put truck engines in the Supra, although the Z was always a better car. The LF-A is Toyota latest attempt to retain their relevance. They have been on the fence for three years as Dave mentioned "toying" with us whether Toyota wanted to release this, meanwhile Nissan has already taken the show with Essence. Oh and that is a hybrid which the LF-A isn't. In the time Toyota has been gunning at the McLauren SLR (at least in price point) McLauren and MBs relationship has dissolved and the value of these cars has dropped by almost 50% for some models. Offering only a lease option might artificially inflate the value of this already outdated car.

In any case Nissan is finally poised to make their move to assert themselves as the force to be reckoned with in the import marker from a technology and performance aspect.

[dmuramoto]

Interesting that the EX35 forum and your condo association have folks who are in the market for these kind of cars. I've never understood how even the very rich could justify such exhorbitant costs, unless they had more money than they knew what to do with. Leasing has also baffled me from the point of view that, unless you can really write it off on taxes (and justify the use for business purposes) there's little advantage and you own nothing.

Now, as EIC for Nissan Sport could I really say I NEED that R35 to run around town (or the track) to do business? If I went before an IRS audit, I'd have to choke myself to keep from laughing! LOL

And as Audtatious has said, WHO is really going to want a LSA for the price (lease or purchase) Toyota will ask? I agree with Steve that Toyota isn't a bad company- they're in it to make money, BIG money--but their cars are somewhat sterile and soulless. The LSA is an attempt to address that and give the brand a halo flagship. But the timing of the LFA's announcement simply sucks, coming so quickly after the companies' withdrawl from F1.

[audtatious]

The problem with the LSA approach from Toyota is they have nothing from a sport standpoint for enthusiasts to be interested in. With the GT-R, Nissan has the G37 and 370z (plus the used-market G35's and 350z's) for "common" folk to own and build up.

[SteveTheTech]

Although every member of the elite supercar club has their own reasons for making the plunge. For many it seems to be the material status symbol used to justify their career oriented decisions, some have always wanted one. Some are just very lucky car guys like Jay Leno. I would be like that if allowed.

Collecting cars is like collecting anything with it's own diverse market. Although my dear wife does not find the Barrett-Jackson tv worth watching together, but it gives you a good idea of how the other half spends their disposable income. I think this type of socioeconomic survey is interesting from the outside but I would imagine it gets very involved if I were ever so fortunate. I wonder how one decides they have "arrived" at that point? I have always been a wicked car guy but more over I have been cheap and enjoy traveling and my accountant knows my keen ability not to let my cars completely ever die so that works against me sometimes.

Toyota had a great jump on Nissan and Infiniti but nowadays the competition is leaving the bland quiet sedans for a more enthusiast themed driving experience and with Nissans new hybrid technology already in sight they are desperate to remain relevant. The recent announcement that Infiniti will have at least one maybe more full electric offerings by an frightinigly (to them) close deadlin in the auto industry. Laminated LI batteries and a slowly increasing acceptance and infrastructure by the rollout will ease the perception of the granola generation away from Synergy drive to an actual alternate fuel vehicle.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The problem with the LSA approach from Toyota is they have nothing from a sport standpoint for enthusiasts to be interested in. With the GT-R, Nissan has the G37 and 370z (plus the used-market G35's and 350z's) for "common" folk to own and build up.

Yes, exactly. Nissan's doing lots of marketing of the Maxima, Z, and GTR together as symbols of the brand's sport identity. What's Toyota going to park next to the LFA in their ads? A Solara?

People reacted skeptically to Nissan's shot at the supercar world, but at least Nissan has been building renowned sports cars since the 60s. Toyota can make no such claims. They have no pedigree to support the LFA. Sure, it may end up standing on its own but that won't move cars up front.

I also really think it was foolish to sell the car as a Lexus. I completely fail to see the reasoning behind that decision, unless it was to support the $280k pricetag, which seems counterproductive if Toyota's trying to actually make money on the thing. I can see a $100k or maybe even $150k Supra having much better appeal than a $280k Lexus. At least the Supra name says "performance."

And speaking of names and their meanings, what the crap is "LFA" anyway? It's a great concept name but you can't sell a $280k car with a stupid name like that. Look at the competition: Ferraris that evoke elegant Italian vistas, Lamborghinis that scream aggressive power, Maseratis that use what might be the most beautiful language on earth to describe otherwise mundane traits. And even the GTR, which at least actually stands for something. But LFA? What is that? Lexus F...f...what? Stupid. Give the thing a name. I refuse to buy a $280k car with no name.

[audtatious]

what the crap is "LFA" anyway?

LF-A = Lexus Future-Advance

[MinisterofDOOM]

That's stupider than the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's a freaking stupid paradox.

[audtatious]

I really have no idea what Toyota is doing other than having some high-end, expensive trophy to point to while they try and sell you a Prius

[dmuramoto]

Yes, exactly. Nissan's doing lots of marketing of the Maxima, Z, and GTR together as symbols of the brand's sport identity. What's Toyota going to park next to the LFA in their ads? A Solara?

People reacted skeptically to Nissan's shot at the supercar world, but at least Nissan has been building renowned sports cars since the 60s. Toyota can make no such claims. They have no pedigree to support the LFA. Sure, it may end up standing on its own but that won't move cars up front.

I also really think it was foolish to sell the car as a Lexus. I completely fail to see the reasoning behind that decision, unless it was to support the $280k pricetag, which seems counterproductive if Toyota's trying to actually make money on the thing. I can see a $100k or maybe even $150k Supra having much better appeal than a $280k Lexus. At least the Supra name says "performance."

Interesting and on point comments. Maybe Toyota wants to develop their marketshare in the performance world. Or maybe (as Steve the Tech has suggested), they're just desperate to cling to some semblance of relevance in today's market. But Toyota is certainly starting from well behind in developing the kind of performance image that Nissan has.

The decision to sell the LFA as a Lexus is an intriguing counterpoint to the decision to badge and sell the GT-R as a Nissan. There was a lot of internal discussion about offering the R35 in the U.S. through Infiniti dealers. That was until Ghosn saw the car and made the decision. He didn't see it fitting Infiniti's image and wanted to preserve the GT-R as a Nissan icon. His perspective is the one that counts.