Lawyer Up? Yay or Nay

[Chris28]

I absolutely can not stand threads like this. Someone comes in saying that they were out street racing and wants to know how to get it dropped to a non-moving violation or something like that. I am not here for your advice on how to drive, I am here for your advice on legal action. That being said, let's get started!

I totaled my car. I slid into a pole at around 50 mph. It had just started raining, hadn't rained in 3 weeks, roads were quite slick. Was I drifting? No. Had I just installed new suspension bits and was taking the corner at a safe speed for dry conditions? Yes. I also have a welded diff, I'm sure that didn't help in this situation. Right when the rear slid out, I countersteered, but ran out of angle and locked up the brakes, sliding over a curb and into a street lamp. No damage to the street lamp, lots of damage to my car. That's not the point however.

While waiting for a friend to come pick me up with a trailer, a police officer happened to drive by. He asks what had happened, I calmly tell him, I give him my license, registration, etc. I write a statement, he keeps asking me if I was racing, and I tell him that I was not, as a race is a contest or competition of speed. There was no contest here, just bad road conditions. He goes into his car and comes back with a reckless ticket. Code is 21-1, section 46.2-852. Description of the charge, word for word, is "reckless driving (accident)."

Here's the catch. The police officer was not a witness. He arrived over an hour after I had the accident. There is no posted speed limit on the road that I was on. I was not driving recklessly, I was taking the corner at a safe speed had the road not been so greasy. All of these make me wonder how he took legal action.

I'm going to call my insurance provider tomorrow and see what they say, I'm just hoping someone with legal background can shed some light on the situation. My court date is Wednesday, I'm not going to plea at all, just see what the judge decides given the evidence and then see what I can do.

Thanks for your advice, not opinions.

-Chris

[sbird1]

"Tell it to the judge"... seriously.

[troskinatior]

Wow that suck so much. If the cop just saw your car totaled wouldnt that be enough punishment alone. I hate cops so much. I would say dont get a lawer because the amount he will charge will just about equal the price of the ticket. You can talk to a arborator (i think thats the name) and he will give you less of a punishment but at some cost, Like if the ticket was for a hundred bucks and 2 points he could drop the points and give you a four hundred dollarfine. but I say fight it

[Empty V]

To be honest I wouldn't take advice from someone that says "I hate cops so much." When you go to your arraignment you have to enter a plea, I'm not a lawyer but I would guess that not guilty is what you want. They might set another date or listen to your story right then. If everything you said is true then I would hope that the judge would side with you. Best of luck and report back with what happens.

[sbird1]

Arbitrator is the word you were looking for. When you go to court, you're going to plead not guilty. They will ask you if you want a bench trial or jury trial. You should go with bench. You will be given another court date where you will meet with the judge and the cop that wrote the ticket. Plead your case and see what happens. No need for a lawyer in this case.

[Solar_Runner]

yeah, that was a pretty limp-d!ck thing to do... I'd take it to court.

Good luck

[sbird1]

I hate cops so much.

GIFSoup

[troskinatior]

^^^^

To be honest I wouldn't take advice from someone that says "I hate cops so much."

I've had bad expereances with the popo. One time my bro went threw a yellow and a cop said he saw us go threw it but he was sitting behind a 18 wheeler and couldnt see the light change and he got all butthurt when I told him he was wrong. Thats just one instance but I have more.

[Jesda]

PLEASE get a lawyer. Being innocent is NOT a reason to feel comfortable with self-representation. The truth lies between a young car enthusiast and a police officer, and by default the police officer has more credibility in front of a judge.

Decent legal representation could mean the difference between a small fine and amended charge or a month in jail.

Keep us posted. Good luck.

[Crazyirish]

I've had bad expereances with the popo. One time my bro went threw a yellow and a cop said he saw us go threw it but he was sitting behind a 18 wheeler and couldnt see the light change and he got all butthurt when I told him he was wrong. Thats just one instance but I have more.

Sounds like pretty damning evidence against all law enforcement to me.

OP. Don't test out new suspension pieces on wet roads. Especially not with a welded diff.

[sbird1]

Whoa there Jesda. I don't think the OP is in any danger of doing any kind of jail time. You would really get a lawyer here?

[troskinatior]

I've had bad expereances with the popo. One time my bro went threw a yellow and a cop said he saw us go threw it but he was sitting behind a 18 wheeler and couldnt see the light change and he got all butthurt when I told him he was wrong. Thats just one instance but I have more.

Sounds like pretty damning evidence against all law enforcement to me.

OP. Don't test out new suspension pieces on wet roads. Especially not with a welded diff.

Alright Im not going to argue with anyone. Its out there, and I will say it again, I hate cops

[Jesda]

Whoa there Jesda. I don't think the OP is in any danger of doing any kind of jail time. You would really get a lawyer here?

Depends on the state, but you can get up to 90 days in jail for reckless, 30 for negligent.

It would be unfortunate to get stuck with a judge who had an axe to grind. In my more 'colorful' days of driving, I've encountered both reasonable and completely unreasonable judges.

Its also hard to gauge the aggressiveness of a prosecutor. I was lucky once and dealt with a young guy who was open to negotiating with me directly on what turned out to be a very heavy $1000 fine -- much better than sitting in jail.

[Chris28]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I know not to be careless on wet roads, but the rear end just kicked out so fast even letting go of the wheel and letting it counter-steer itself wasn't fast enough to correct in time. I've been to events, I know how to control the car sideways, but this was completely unexpected.

Jesda, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think jail time will result from this offense. I have a perfect driving record, this is my first offense, and I have +4 points on my license (+5 is the most you can have). The officer that wrote the ticket said he has seen someone with -40 points still have their license, and since this is my first offense he said it would be a few points at most. He also said to mention to the judge that the car was totaled, but to me that shows a sign of weakness or guilt, and that I need the judge to take pity on me. There is no price on the ticket, so I don't know what the charge would be. I do think that a lawyer would be more than the ticket however.

A friend of mine was in the passenger seat during the accident, should I ask him to come with me as a witness?

[Empty V]

I have a perfect driving record, this is my first offense, and I have +4 points on my license (+5 is the most you can have).

From this you sound completely retarded. Having any points on your record is not a perfect record. Guilty, I'm going on break!

[Empty V]

Alright Im not going to argue with anyone. Its out there, and I will say it again, I hate cops

Dude's only 17, he hates everything and everyone.

[Razi]

I fail at lawyerly things.
Best of luck Chris!

[Chris28]

I have a perfect driving record, this is my first offense, and I have +4 points on my license (+5 is the most you can have).

From this you sound completely retarded. Having any points on your record is not a perfect record. Guilty, I'm going on break!

Positive points are good, negative points are bad. For every year you have a clean record (no accidents), you get +1 point. +5 is the most you can have.

[Zydeco]

Arbitrator is the word you were looking for. When you go to court, you're going to plead not guilty. They will ask you if you want a bench trial or jury trial. You should go with bench. You will be given another court date where you will meet with the judge and the cop that wrote the ticket. Plead your case and see what happens. No need for a lawyer in this case.

this, but call the court house 10 days before your trial and say you have to go out of town on "business" and post pone your trial date. keep doing this as much as you can. you'll have a better chance of the cop a) not showing up or b) not being able to remember what happened 6 to 8 months ago.

[Empty V]

Positive points are good, negative points are bad. For every year you have a clean record (no accidents), you get +1 point. +5 is the most you can have.

I guess I'm the half-a-tard, my apologies. Very different from out system in CA. Again, best of luck.

[BusyBadger]

There is no price on the ticket, so I don't know what the charge would be. I do think that a lawyer would be more than the ticket however.

If you don't know the charge on the ticket why do you think a lawyer will cost more? When was the last time that you hired a lawyer? Additionally, it's not just the price of the ticket you need to be concerned with. As a 20 year old male your car insurance is already expensive enough, no need to tack on any rate raisers.

Get a lawyer. Even if you weren't 20 years old and already part of a poor driving stereotype (positive points or no) you're going to look like some young know-it-all walking into court proclaiming your innocence.

And you're not doing yourself any favours with the link in your profile to your mad tyte drift crew blog either. Plus a quick Google search of your name pops your MySpace as the top link. And after one quick view that thing plants you firmly in the Fast & Furious set.

Don't risk being the next Nala or PMQ by asking for advice, then after getting it deciding to ignore it.

[Chris28]

call the court house 10 days before your trial and say you have to go out of town on "business" and post pone your trial date. keep doing this as much as you can. you'll have a better chance of the cop a) not showing up or b) not being able to remember what happened 6 to 8 months ago.

I would do this, but I leave for school soon. My dad is friends with the chief of police for the district in which I received the ticket, so he called and I actually had the court date moved up to before I leave for school. Now I don't know if the cop knows this, so I don't know if the cop will even be there that day. If I'm lucky he won't have to be there that day and won't show, but I don't see why the police chief would have moved my court date to a day when the ticketing officer won't be there.

[troskinatior]

Alright Im not going to argue with anyone. Its out there, and I will say it again, I hate cops

Dude's only 17, he hates everything and everyone.

Damn right

[Chris28]

There is no price on the ticket, so I don't know what the charge would be. I do think that a lawyer would be more than the ticket however.

If you don't know the charge on the ticket why do you think a lawyer will cost more? When was the last time that you hired a lawyer? Additionally, it's not just the price of the ticket you need to be concerned with. As a 20 year old male your car insurance is already expensive enough, no need to tack on any rate raisers.

Get a lawyer. Even if you weren't 20 years old and already part of a poor driving stereotype (positive points or no) you're going to look like some young know-it-all walking into court proclaiming your innocence.

And you're not doing yourself any favours with the link in your profile to your mad tyte drift crew blog either. Plus a quick Google search of your name pops your MySpace as the top link. And after one quick view that thing plants you firmly in the Fast & Furious set.

Don't risk being the next Nala or PMQ by asking for advice, then after getting it deciding to ignore it.

Ah, the myspace. I might as well delete it, I forgot it still existed.

All valid points, thanks for the input. I thought about the "know it all" aspect, but if I'm merely stating my case how will I look like a know it all? I don't want to claim innocence, I want the judge to look it over and then plea not guilty.

[Zydeco]

you should at least consult with a lawyer before you go to court.

[Dattebayo]

do SOME YAY

[nissangirl74]

Yay. Don't take anything for granted, including your innocence. Your friend should definitely go with you. Be respectful, mind your manners, and wear something nice to court. It doesn't have to be a suit and tie but first impressions are important. Don't wear a pair of jeans with your a** hanging out of them and your hat tilted to the side. You'll make an impression you don't want.

[Jesda]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I know not to be careless on wet roads, but the rear end just kicked out so fast even letting go of the wheel and letting it counter-steer itself wasn't fast enough to correct in time. I've been to events, I know how to control the car sideways, but this was completely unexpected.

Jesda, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think jail time will result from this offense.
A friend of mine was in the passenger seat during the accident, should I ask him to come with me as a witness?

He's your friend and he was in your car. His credibility is zero.

I don't think you'll go to jail, but you'll pay a huge fine and get your a** nailed to the wall for something you didn't do. In addition, you'll be paying out the a** for insurance for another eight years. And you can forget about getting any jobs that require you to drive or travel.The hundreds you spend on legal representation now will save you THOUSANDS later on. Because of my driving history at age 18-20, I missed out a job that would have allowed me to travel all over the US, Canada, and Mexico. While my coworkers were hanging out in Cancun and Hawaii, I was stuck at a desk job at HQ providing support. Yes, I earned more, but I had considerably less fun.

Those who represent themselves are taken less seriously. Yes, it is your right to defend yourself, but you have to consider unavoidable human factors. Do not d!ck around with a reckless driving charge -- its serious stuff.

[Feadz]

I've been in almost the exact situation, well it was my friend driving and I was the passenger. It just started raining and my friend went to make a right turn a little too fast, the combination of gravel, rain, and him panicking caused us to end up in a ditch. The cops came and gave him a wreckless driving ticket and we had his car towed back to his house. When he went to court he had the ticket brought down from wreckless driving to "failure to control" and it was only like a $100 ticket and no points where taken off his license. He was only 17 at the time, so i'm not sure if that had any role in the decision.

[C-Kwik]

First thing you should do is read up on the specific violation you were cited for. Any label for a citation is only that. The specific wording of the law and the potential fines for them are what matters most. It would at least give you an idea of how serious your case might be. If the worst case scenario might be a relatively small fine, it might be worth it not to have a lawyer. If there are potentially large consequences than a lawyer might be considered more heavily. The biggest factor might be to consider if its a misdemeanor or an infraction. An infraction is a lot less formal and would be fairly easy to present a case in. A misdemeanor trial is more formal and would be much harder for one without some legal knowledge and/or comfort with dealing with law to handle.