I just absolutely unloaded on someone from BEGi (miata)

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:14 pm

Most of you know some of the background story behind my miata build. If not, let me get you up to speed in 1 sentence. I ordered all my parts in Feb/March, and they technically still aren't all here.

You probably aren't the right person to take this text beating, but I'm going to unload on you.

I'm pretty appalled at the service from Bell. I was promised on many occasions about the availability and delivery time of many, many parts, most of which were SEVERELY delayed. I ordered a megasquirt ECU back in March, and just got it yesterday. There are no directions/instructions with it (mount the IAT sensor here, this deep into the charge piping, wire it into the MAF harness like this, mount the MS unit itself like this, wire the LC-1 wideband O2 sensor into this connector using these wires, start-up procedure goes like this), etc. 10 week delivery time is abso-f***-lutely inexcusable. I was also overcharged for it. Some months after ordering an A-pillar gauge mount (and not receiving it), I canceled it and was told the funds would be put towards the Megasquirt. It never showed up on the invoice.

The regular installation instructions for the rest of the turbo kit really need to be gone through again. They are very poorly written, the pictures suck, and email support takes a very long time (as well as is pretty piss poor/wrong). Many incorrect or non-functional parts were shipped to me, most of which I only found out about after installation. The downpipe "connector bolt" design blows donkey balls. Why would you put it in the 1 area with the least amount of clearance? It rattled like a son of a b****, and the car isn't even running yet. Every single line I received from Bell was too long. Every f*** one of them. Not a big deal with the rubber hoses which can be cut, but it really sucks having to route and install stainless lines multiple times (along with waiting for the turn around time). I ended up having to cut the oil return line while it was installed, simply because I'd have to remove the turbo/downpipe/manifold just to get it off. Not cool. Also, don't be so jewish with the silicone intercooler piping couplers. Make them a little longer FFS, give us a little wiggle room. My latest shipment was supposed to contain a 3rd batch/version of coolant line to turbo fittings seeing as how the other ones that you sent me didn't work. They all leak, even with the sorry excuse for a "band-aid" fix- some crappy aluminum washer. Don't worry about it, I'll just buy them from someone else.

I'm sorry, but I didn't pay ~$4000 to "figure this all out myself", and wait a really really long time in the process. I honestly can not recommend any portion of BEGi business to anyone, and don't see myself doing business with you ever again. In case you were wondering, my latest invoice number is 34980.

But to answer your original question- I honestly don't even remember receiving "hardware to secure relays". IIRC, it was some crappy bolt and a zip tie or something, which I most likely sourced myself after waiting a month for a replacement to arrive.

From: [email protected]
To: James
Subject: Your recent BEGI order
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 16:21:51 -0500

Dear BEGI Customer,

My name is Kitty Brown and I am the shipping manager at BEGI/ Bell Engineering. I am following up with you to make sure your order was received (hardware to secure relays ). If you could take a few moments to let us know that everything arrived in good shape, we would greatly appreciate it. If you need help with any installation or tech help please feel free to contact us at 830.438.2890

Please feel free to make any suggestions or comments. We are striving to make your purchasing experience with BEGI an excellent one.

Thank You for your time

Kitty Brown
Shipping Manager
BEGI/Bell Engineering
203 Kestrel Drive
Spring Branch, TX 78070
830-438-2890 M-F 8am-5PM
http://www.bellengineering.net

I think I snapped a bit, but I also sort of held back. There was a lot I didn't mention, which I guess I can save for round 2 if the need arises.

Post by **Razi** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:50 pm

Wow, is Bell Engineering the company associated with Corky Bell?

That's one horrible kit.
Sounds even worse than the mismatched kit I pieced together myself for the KA-T.

Post by **Amays U G37S** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:09 pm

I think you would of paid less and had less hassle with a eBay kit.

Post by **vocationalzero** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:27 pm

I am going through the same s*** with Mishimoto and their "new" (it is a new starter, not a reman just unbelievably ****ty) sr20 replacement starter. I got 2 bad ones in a row, they both went bad in 2 different ways. Along with 3 friends who all had bad mishi starters straight out of the box. (and they did warranties on them too and still the replacement ones they got were bad out of the box as well). I'm still working on getting my money back from them and I bought my starter back in the end of January. I wouldn't recommend Mishimoto's SR20 starter to anybody. ****ing pieces of **** starters... Mishi needs to recall ALL of their sr starters and start over with R&D on it as well

Post by **bigbadberry3** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:10 pm

In for updates when they come.

InfinitiEric · Post by **InfinitiEric** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:29 pm

Honda and now this?

Post by **skydragoness** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:36 pm

I've never heard of Bell (although I am new to the Miata game)

Just curious.. why didn't you go with Flyin' Miata kits?

Mishimoto is crap btw, I think the owner/company is based in DE.

Post by **the converted** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:49 pm

Damn, that sucks!

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:50 pm

InfinitiEric wrote:Honda and now this?

This is nowhere near as bad as Honda. Bell isn't overcharging me and leaving me high and dry. They'll pick up the phone when I call. Honda didn't.

Razi wrote:Wow, is Bell Engineering the company associated with Corky Bell?

Yeah, from what I understand, Corky used to run it (and actually used to work with Fylin Miata before breaking off on his own), but he's getting kinda old so now his Daughter Stephanie is more or less running the joint (again, from what I understand).

skydragoness wrote:I've never heard of Bell (although I am new to the Miata game)

Just curious.. why didn't you go with Flyin' Miata kits?

There's actually a couple reasons why I didn't go FM. First was because I already had a turbo to use, and Bell was more accommodating for that. They really don't stock ANYTHING, its all made to order. This ended up being a moot point as my turbo was entirely NOT going to work with any setup haha, so I went with a standard disco potato.

Another reason was that I liked BEGi's exhaust manifold and downpipe a little more, until I saw the downpipe in real life... it'll probably make slightly more power than Flyin Miata's but its pain in the a** to get on the turbo, and the 2 pieces are secured by 2 nuts that are welded on to the pipe (in the worst possibly location btw), then you put a bolt through the 2 of them (the bolt doesn't thread to those nuts, they are just shoulders basically), and thread another bolt onto the other end. There are no torque specs for ANY of their fasteners, and there is no "keep tightening til you get to this point" specification for the downpipe. I tightened mine til it snapped... way back in late March or early April. I just got another one yesterday. I ended up jettisoning that entire jacked up system, and tack welded the pipe together. I'm going to run it a while and make sure its good, then possibly cut the nuts off the pipe so it wont rattle.
The final reason was because I was going to go with a reflashed ECU for simplicity purposes, and Bell is the only one offering that for the NB.

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:01 pm

You can't really see exactly what's going on there, but I'll look for more of my pics and/or take new ones.

Oh also, I liked the Bell DP because it incorporated a flex pipe section, I couldn't find out if FM did or not.

Post by **s0m3th1ngAZ** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:25 pm

One question...why did you not go through Flyin' Miata?
Even on a $40 salvaged camshaft they followed up on how I was doing and if I needed anything else. Best goddamn autoparts company I have EVER dealt with.
And like a doofus I didn't read the rest of the thread...curse you Corona.

Post by **frapjap** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:08 am

Note, not buying Bell parts. FM seems to be where its at in the first place.

Post by **themadscientist** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:19 am

Could have had a V8.

http://monstermiata.webs.com/v8monsterkit.htm

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:30 pm

Called BEGi today. Asked to talk to Tim. I heard he was actually pretty cool.

Got him on the phone and said "I've got 99 problems". Asked the first one, he put me on hold, then Stephanie picked up and first questioned my questions with "Well, I Emailed you instructions!!". Her "emailed instructions" were this:

And I'm dealing with this:

Needless to say, her "emailed instructions" were useless. She couldn't really answer if pin 1 was supposed to be 12v in or 12v out from the MS, nor if it was "switched", or always on. From then on she basically relayed my questions to Tim and some guy named Kevin (about where the F I'm supposed to mount this thing). Pretty inefficient, and I still have a bunch of question marks written down, like WTF does it say "NO" next to "switch tables"? That was like, one of the main reasons I went to MS, was so I could switch tables. I also wanted launch control

I THINK I have enough knowledge to get the car going now though... we'll see. I'm going to just assume that pin 1 is 12V switched.

Post by **Chaotic_Warlord** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:14 pm

As far as the whole MS issue goes, I'm sure there are more than a few proper instructions that you can find on the interwebs for your application, or you could just contact MegaSquirt personally, inform them of you plight and see what they have to say. Bell and MS might have a problem with their lines of communication and Bell might not have proper instructions to send with the ECU's. As far as the rest of the issues you're having it sounds like Bell has some serious QC and CSR issues they need to work out. If the President of the company isn't capable of helping you at the very least feel validated and comp you for your troubles then she obviously doesn't care about the company.

You should forward the email you sent to Kitty (WTF kind of name is that) to Mr, Cory Bell himself. He obviously still has some stake in the company that he started. When all else fails go to the top of the ladder, if that still doesn't resolve your issue then it's time to contact the BBB and launch and internet Jihad.

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:19 pm

I generally don't contact the BBB unless its some sort of serious financial thing, which this isn't.
I actually looked for some MS to NB Miata stuff and didn't find much for the 01-04. Besides, that's not really the point. I paid a premium for a plug and play system... I should be treated with premium instructions tailored to the system that THEY built.

Post by **Chaotic_Warlord** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:25 pm

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:I generally don't contact the BBB unless its some sort of serious financial thing, which this isn't.
I actually looked for some MS to NB Miata stuff and didn't find much for the 01-04. Besides, that's not really the point. I paid a premium for a plug and play system... I should be treated with premium instructions tailored to the system that THEY built.

I understand your point about the BBB, and I completely see where you're coming from with the whole Mega-Squirt issue. Since their staff couldn't help you maybe Mr. Bell can. After all I'm sure he didn't develop a full turbo system without the knowledge of how to hook up the brain. Is MS a new development or has it been in the design from the start? if it's been there since the start I'm sure that someone has to know how to hook the thing up.

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:39 pm

The megasquirt is new to BEGi (for the NB), but they've had it for the NA for quite some time. Corky is actually not very well versed in the ECU side of things... and like I said, he's getting old. He actually told me that while I was on the phone with him "Everyone's out to lunch, and I'm getting old, so I probably can't really help you either".

Anyway, got the car running tonight, so that's good.

Post by **dre1507** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:00 pm

yaaaay. it's sad they ultimately weren't of much help, but at least you somehow managed to get it done. vids soon? pics even?

InfinitiEric · Post by **InfinitiEric** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:05 pm

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Anyway, got the car running tonight, so that's good.

Post by **AZhitman** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:28 pm

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: Got him on the phone and said "I've got 99 problems". Asked the first one, he put me on hold, then Stephanie picked up and first questioned my questions with "Well, I Emailed you instructions!!".

Oh HELL no.

Stephanie might want to reconsider her tone. I think we could keep her phone real damn busy for real damn long.

Post by **dre1507** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:42 pm

Lol. Greg.....no need to mess with her that much. She's probably some young chick who knows jack diddly about cars, but has to help her dad's business continue. She'd much rather be out doing something else. In her case, i say a stern warning/lesson about life and lemons should set her on the right path. If she continues going on how she is now, then you can feel free to let her have the internet's wrath.

Post by **themadscientist** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:01 am

Where do I send the dildo so she can relax and focus on customer service?

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:18 pm

Man you guys are harsh!!!

I think she genuinely likes what she does, and I wouldn't call her "young" either (granted, I wouldn't call her old).
None of this is on the level of Dobbs Honda, so we don't need to go phone bombing her haha, realistically, I figured most of it out on my own, the point is that I shouldn't have had to (and what are they going to do when someone comes along with less experience/know-how)?
I just feel bad for anyone else that buys from them, and figured I'd warn people to just go with Flyin Miata.

Here's the mess I have to clean up tonight before taking the car for a spin:

Also need to add the compressor inlet, filter, and heat shield, then put on the strut tower brace.

^old pic

pics?

I have more pictures than you care to know about.
http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p82/ ... 2k3/Miata/

Also, I can't really blame Tim... he shouldn't have to be the one answering phones for customer support. Hell, I'd probably give it the ol "WTF?" if some customer called me at work asking about Armada control arms or something.

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:34 pm

Update!
This didn't work from BEGi so I had to modify it:

It wouldn't have allowed the coolant line to go to the turbo. Also it wouldn't bolt on due to the fact that it was hitting the power steering pump rather badly. Nothing a hack saw and a dremel can't fix... but again, WTF.

Next- This didn't work from BEGi so I had to modify it:

Turbine heat shield/cover. I would have had to have cut off my oil dipstick for it to work the way they had it.

Engine bay shot:

Next- This didn't work from BEGi so I'll have to modify it in the future, but for now just used my compressor inlet from the 240.

That ~2.25" hose is supposed to go into my 3" turbine inlet silicone coupler (and seal). No effin way.

Not pictured (yet)- Again, something that didn't work from BEGi that I sort of had to figure out on my own:
The Megasquirt mounting location. They provide a bracket to you (with no instructions mind you). After calling them, I find out that they want you to mount the ECU on the R/S of the steering column, above the gas pedal. I struggled with this for about an hour. There is no way this would ever work on my car. First, the megasquirt can NOT be bolted to the bracket, it contacts the HVAC duct work long before it meets up with the mounting locations. Second, even if it DID meet up with the mounting locations, it would be way too low, and you'd catch your foot on the ECU and associated wires when lifting off the throttle.

After taking a break and doing a google search, people mentioned to just "find a place for it" between the clutch and brake pedal. I ended up using one of the factory ECU mounting brackets in the non factory location, drilling a hole in it, drilling a hole in the megasquirt, and running a bolt through it. This is by far the best way I see how to do it. The "business" wires are all facing forward, with "easy" (meaning possible, but not really easy) access to the connectors.

BEGi still hasn't gotten back to me with the pictures for ECU mounting that they had promised, nor have they answered the questions that they couldn't answer before. Awful. I don't see how they will be in business much longer if this sort of thing keeps up. The dude that was helping me tonight asked "So, in all honesty, is there anything in this kit that you haven't had to modify?". I had to think, and I came up with 4 pieces. 1 being the manifold, 2 being the compressor outlet pipe, 3 being the inercooler (although the fitment really isn't very good), and 4 being the 1 pipe coming out of the intercooler.

So far, Tim's base map is pretty kickass though.

Post by **themadscientist** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:13 am

PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:I would have had to have cut off my oil dipstick for it to work the way they had it.

No, just the tip. It makes it look way bigger dude!

Post by **dre1507** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:20 am

congrats on the boost. enjoy.

Post by **audtatious** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:37 am

Wow...first Dobbs and now this. I think you like trouble......

Post by **PapaSmurf2k3** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:30 am

Update: the base map kinda sucks too. The cold/hot starts are pretty good, but it definitely has some intermittent bucking during normal driving, and all hell seems to break loose once I hit 4000 RPM (HARD bucking). I think its going WAY rich. So much so its causing a misfire.
Also, if I come out of gear and shift into neutral, the tach falls to 0, the CEL and Battery light come on quickly, and then it goes back up to ~1000 rpm or so. The engine doesn't die. It also does this if I ride a gear down, except the tach will read 0 (and the CEL/Batt light thing) until I press the throttle again. I've "calibrated" the TPS, but that didn't solve the issue. Time to hunt down a megasquirt manual (cos mine didn't come with one... that would make too much sense) and figure out wtf is going on. It would help to know what version megasquirt I have (as well as firmware).

Post by **frapjap** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:30 am

Have you gone on the turbo miata forums to ask for bins and exchange info? No sense is reinventing the wheel.

I just absolutely unloaded on someone from BEGi (miata)

I just absolutely unloaded on someone from BEGi (miata)

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