How to fix your Fan Control Amplifier (updated)

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Skibane
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Haven't received a G50 Fan Amp yet - MoDOOM's been a little tied up lately...

If you've got a dead one that you're willing to loan out, I'll be glad to take a whack at it - PM sent.


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Yeah, I apologize everyone. Being nocturnal combined with being really really busy lately means I haven't had a chance to stop by the post office and mail the thing out yet. Just bad timing I guess.

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goody90q45
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I've got my dead amp heading Skibane's way.

rabatvilla
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Just wondering if you have anymore fan amplifiers? I need one for my 97 pathfinder.

Thank youhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zeropost?cmd=reply&id=4863517#

Joe

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Skibane
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(Original post updated to also include G50 version)

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137
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This is so awesome, going to pdf this and give it a try on mine.

longjing
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My thermal cutoff was blown, so replaced it and reinstall the amp, now my fan is always on, even when the climate control is off. I also could not adjust the fan speed. Any suggestion?

I check the voltage of the incoming connector, PIN 35 is always 12.29V, even when fan switch is OFF. PIN 34 is 9V when fan is on and 0 when fan is off. Is this normal? If PIN 35 is the control voltage, I think it should change when fan is on/off or at different speed, am I right?

Thanks.

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Skibane
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longjing wrote:My thermal cutoff was blown, so replaced it and reinstall the amp, now my fan is always on
Was the fan always on before you replaced the cutout, or did that problem only appear after you replaced it?

longjing
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Skibane wrote:
Was the fan always on before you replaced the cutout, or did that problem only appear after you replaced it?
No, the fan didn't work at all before I replaced the cutout. now, even the fan is off, it blows at high. mode control still work, just the fan speed does not work.

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Skibane
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Quote »PIN 34 is 9V when fan is on and 0 when fan is off.[/quote]

It sounds like your fan amp is getting a valid control signal to turn the fan on and off, but isn't responding. My guess is that the power transistor has an internal short.

Quote »If PIN 35 is the control voltage, I think it should change when fan is on/off or at different speed, am I right?[/quote]

Pin 34 is the control voltage.

Pin 35 should be pretty close to 0 volts, if the fan is running at full speed. It grounds the negative side of the fan motor in order to turn the motor on, so it should measure almost zero volts when the motor is running at full speed.

Quote »I think it should change when fan is on/off or at different speed, am I right?[/quote]

The voltage on Pin 34 will change with different blower speeds, but only if the fan control amp is working properly. If the fan control amp is fried so that only runs the blower at full speed, the voltage on Pin 34 won't change with different blower speed settings, because the mode control is constantly sending a voltage which should slow the blower speed down, but the blower isn't responding.

longjing
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Sorry, it seems that I mixed up PIN 35 of Fan Control Amplifier and A/C Auto Amp.

Before I replaced the cutout, I tried to bypass it with a jumper and it worked. (speed control was fine) Now I have a feeling that my MOSFET Power Transistor is also blown. I will check that tonight. Thank you very much for your help.


longjing
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Problem fixed. It is the cutout I bought, it was shorted when it touched the enclosure. Thank you very much for your help, I appreciate all the info you provided here.

WesQ
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Skibane, thanks for the article and the Darlington. I followed your directions and my fan is now once again under control.

triphase
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Very nice article with all the required informations. I am residing in Belgium and own a 2006 Nissan Primera Advantage. I repaired my fan control amplifier according to your article. It works fine, just for a few euros while a new unit is sold for around 150$. .Thanks for the article.

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Triphase are you Delta or Wye? ........ Who says I have no humor.

While people are learning a little electronics good time to investigate how ac lamp dimmers and ac motor speed controls are a little different.

unique55
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Hello. Great article. Do u stil have any of the parts for the Y33?I can't find them in Canada.Thanks

unique55
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Hello.

Can u tell me where u bought the parts?I'm from the Toronto area as well.

Thanks

trm972
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Skibane,

A great step-by-step guide!

I checked with Mouser's web page & emailed them but they now have a minimum order qty of >400 each (Fairchild 512-FDH5500 is obsolete) for 512-FDH5500-F085 as a replacement.

Two questions since you are an expert:1) Have you found the Fairchild MOSFET to be a reliable replacement after having it installed some time?a. I cannot find an alternate source via Google to Mouser not requiring a min. order for the Fairchild component can you think of an alternate source?

2) Alternatively on the Maxima.org site there was a post by someone who suggested an NEC 2sk2500 replacement to be a Fuji Electronics 2sk2690 (their post below). Since I’m not an expert in reading MOSFET specs, in your opinion would the Fuji MOSFET from Allied electronics, be a reliable replacement option for the FDH-5500?

http://www.fujielectric.com/de...3.pdf on page 13

http://www.fujisemicon-elis.co...earch

purchased from Allied Electronics for $6.70 - http://www.alliedelec.com/sear...54040

Thank you for your insights


Modified by trm972 at 12:48 PM 3/29/2010

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Skibane
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TRM972, the Fuji datasheet in your link shows the 2SK2690 as having a TO-3P package, which doesn't resemble the FDH-5500's TO-247 package at all. So, even if the electrical specs are similar, it would be difficult to mount the new MOSFET so that it was well heat-sunk to the Fan Amp enclosure.

Using Mouser's parameter search function, the closest potential replacement I could find that is in stock is the IRFP048 (Mouser Part No. 844-IRFP048PBF), which is made by Vishay. It has the same TO-247 package as the FDH5500_F085, but has a considerably lower maximum power dissipation (even though the current and voltage ratings are similar). Since it's cheap and readily available, I'd be tempted to try it.

To answer your other question, none of the folks who have installed the FDH-5500 have reported problems with it. I'm still on the original NEC 2SK2500 in my Q, so I can't provide any first-hand info.
Modified by Skibane at 10:29 PM 3/29/2010

trm972
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Skibane thank you very much for your insights. One of the Fuji pdf's in my note was a summary table of all MOSFETS they have, I think I'll scan it for ones that have a TO-247 package and key off the max power consumption and see if I can determine if there is one higher than the Vishay chip to be safe. If not I'll try to order the Vishay chip if Mouser doesn't have a min order qty like they do on the Fairchild chip now.

If you don't mind I'll copy you on a Fuji chip if I find one similar to see what you think since they don't require min order qty's.

Thank you again!

trm972
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Skibane,

In addition to the Vishay IRFP048 in your note where the concern was it had considerably lower maximum power dissipation of 190W (?) than FDH-5500, I’ve found two other Vishay products with higher max power diss., but am unsure of the other specs.Would one of these be better in terms of max power, and other specs that are critical to the MOSFET operation being closer to the FDH-5500?

1. IRFP054PBF (I think the PBF suffix notes lead free version but all other specs of IRFP054 would remain the same)Datasheet: http://www.vishay.com/doc?91200 .

I’ve found that Future Electronics does permit single unit quantity purchase of this item http://www.futureelectronics.c...64736 .

Also available on ebay: http://business.shop.ebay.com/...l1313

2. IRFP064 datasheet: http://www.bdent.com/search/pa...FP064 .

BD Enterprises permits single unit quantity purchase of this item, http://www.bdent.com/search/pa...FP064. Mouser also allows singe unit order qty but none in stock and currently shows 22 week lead time.

Also available on ebay: http://business.shop.ebay.com/...l1313

Jedidanno
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Thanks so much for this excellent write up! I was able to fix my 2005 Nissan Altima fan control amplifier. I ordered these parts from http://www.digikey.com here are the part numbers (I spent a total of $5.75 shipping included).

1. P10925-ND = Thermal Cutoff 145c 2A/250VAC .45 cents

2. HUF75344G3-ND = Mosfet N-CH 55V 75A TO-247 $2.96

Here are the links as well. Thanks again, I hope this helps others. http://search.digikey.com/scri...G3-ND

http://search.digikey.com/scri...25-nd

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Skibane
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Good finds, guys - Looks like either the HUF75344G3 or IRFP064 are the best substitutes so far - Their maximum power dissipations (Pd) are still quite a bit short of the FDH5500_F085's 375 watt spec, but the maximum Drain-Source voltage (Vdss), maximum continuous Drain current (Id) and maximum Drain-Source On-Resistance (RDSon) specs are pretty close.

Pd, Vdss, Id and RDSon are the 4 most important specs for this particular application - A higher number is better for the first 3 specs, and a lower number is better for the last.

As a standard of comparison, here are the specs for the FDH5500_F085:

Pd: 375 WattsId: 75 AmpsVdss: 55 VoltsRDSon: 7 milliOhms (or 0.007 Ohms)
Modified by Skibane at 10:03 PM 4/8/2010

trm972
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Skibane & Jedidanno,

Thank you, I'll order one of those. I really appreciate your technical expertise and advice.

All the best.

caliport
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Very valuable post, it certainly saves money.

It leaves me wondering whether the G50 (27761 85E01) and the Y33 (27761-70T03) amplifiers are interchangeable.

The 85E01turned up recently in the Altima. That seemed odd since the 70T03 appeared to have taken over as the preferred part.

Looking around on Google did not turn up any hint that the two are compatible.

If they are compatible, the 85E01 is a far better deal, it sells for 2/3 the price of the 70T03.
Last edited by caliport on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

OwnerCS
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Excellent post!

teggenberger
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Is it just my browser, or are the images missing from this article?

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Q451990
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First of all :welcome: to NICO!

I see plenty of pictures at the front of the article, but the thread was messed up about half way through. I think I have it fixed... does it looks better now?

Heath

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Skibane
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On my browser (Firefox), some of the photos are cut off, with no way of viewing them in their entirety. Apparently, this was done to put advertising space in the right 1/3rd of the screen.

IMO, the new forum format is a huge step backwards, and will drive many people to visit other forums instead. :frown:

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Q451990
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Skibane wrote:On my browser (Firefox), some of the photos are cut off, with no way of viewing them in their entirety. Apparently, this was done to put advertising space in the right 1/3rd of the screen.

IMO, the new forum format is a huge step backwards, and will drive many people to visit other forums instead. :frown:
Here are the top two schematics formatted in a way that they can be viewed properly in the current forum software. I tried to edit them in the body of the first post, but I don't see the actual images in there... Are any of the other pictures cut off?

Image

Image

Heath


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