help!!!!! mystery misfire and missing water

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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ok some history... 99 maxima that has 160,000miles on it. and the previous owner didnt do very much maintainence, which i think is catching up to it now. but when i got the car i had to put a transmission and do a front wheel bearing. i have also done sparkplugs and valve cover gaskets on it a month ago. but so far havent had any issues other than the normal oil changes and whatnot. about 3 months ago i had a "mystery misfire" start that only happens at idle with it in gear, the reason i changed the plugs. what was weird is if i put it in park, nutral, or give it some gas, it goes away, and it dosent do it all the time, its random. it also dosent set any CEL codes, everything shows fine with the obd2 scan tools i have and with my dads snapon scan tool. then in the last week it started boiling the coolant out of the overflow, which i think i have fixed now by changing the thermostat, rad cap, and flushing the system. but now its always low on water, and i cant find a leak anywhere. before the boiling problem it was never low on water, but now im having to add water to it every time i need to go somewhere. and i still have this mis i cant figure out. my dad and a few other people are thinking a blow headgasket, but i dont think so.the car runs great other then these 2 issues. and the mis is more annoying than being a major issue. i just wonder if ther are connected.does anyone know if the water pump has a weephole somewhere that i can look at??has anyone had problems with aftermarket coils?? one of the front ones is from autozone, i dont know why it was on there when i got the car.any other good ideas anyone can suggest?????

sorry for the long post but i wanted to have all the info out there.


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loystock
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A blown head gasket will cause coolant loss so check the engine oil does not look like creamed coffee. Did you give enough time to 'burp' the cooling system after you replaced the thermostat and rad cap. Did you use OE-equivalent rad cap (opens at 11-14 PSI)?

There is a water pump weep hole but you have to take it out to see it (between 2 O-rings). The 'weep' is channeled out near the oil pan. You may have to do a pressure test (23 PSI) if leak is not detected.

As for the misfire, did you use OEM spark plugs when you replaced them? Bosch and Denso plugs can cause misfire problem. It's difficult to diagnose a misfire without a fault code. With engine at idle, try disconnecting one ignition coil at a time and see how the engine respond. Check coil resistance on Pins 2 and 3 - 0 ohm indicates a dead coil. Clean the engine harness ground points (2 each on top of engine beside plenum, near cylinder #2) as well as the MAF sensor near air filter box (use zero-residue contact cleaner or CRC MAF Cleaner). Also check the condition of air filter.

Ignition Coil Connector Signal:-Pin 1 (R wire): Battery voltage if Ignition switch is ON-Pin 2 (B wire): Ground connection (of emitter)-Pin 3: (striped wire): Signal from ECM (base bias to coil transistor), - 0.20VDC with Ignition ON or engine at Idle;

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well the oil has about 2k miles on it right now and still looks like oil, so i guess im good. as far as what parts i used, i know a guy at the local nissan dealer so i get factory parts cheaper than aftermarket. i have done a pressure test and i does leak down, but i dont see any water leaking anywhere, so i dont know if its the gage or what. whereabouts does this weephole run so i can keep an eye on it, im not pulling it just to see.... it looks like a beoch to do that.i changed the themostat and flushed it yesterday morning and drove it 6-7 times yesterday topping it off everytime. i wish it had a bleed screw like my SR20 does.ngk is the ONLY plug i use.see thats the weird part of the mis, it only does it at idle with it in gear. and its completely random when it does it, i might drive it for a week and not feel it then itll mis its ars off for couple days then clear up. its agravating. i have unpluged different coils when it is missing but it makes it worse on all of them. its not a complete dead mis, random mis, almost like preignition .i'll check the coils like you said and let you know what i find.
loystock wrote:It's difficult to diagnose a misfire without a fault code. ;
tell me about it

NutriaforBreakfast
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:41 pm
Car: Nissan Maxima 1995 VQDE engine

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MIne has leaked coolant until it warms up then it stops. While thecar is warming it watch as see if it starts to leak then quits.

You might try checking your emissions equipment for the miss.Clean you idle air control valve and check your EGR valve to makesure it is opening and closing. Might just be bad carbon

Yes and coils are funny. I had a bad coil that caused a low speed missbut worked well at high speeds. Put a multimeter to them twice-oncewhen they are hot and again when they are cold and you might findthe culprit

Try to read your plugs (back cover of Chiltons gives pictures). If youhad water in your cylinder your plug would be very distinctive looking.

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rustest86
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well i got a chance to check the coils and all but the aftermarket one read 1.5ohms. the aftermarket one reads .33ohms, so theres my mis. guess now i have a reason to go to pull-a-part.but as far as a coollant leak. i have watched it while it was warming up, cooling down and just sitting there and i cant find one. what i am gonna try though, is jacking it up and letting it run to see if its just an air pocket traped somewhere thats just slowly comming out. so we'll see.

thank for all the help

NutriaforBreakfast
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Car: Nissan Maxima 1995 VQDE engine

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The little coolant hose going to the throttle body has leaked on mebefore. After the engine warms up, I think the coolant no longeris diverted to that hose and it quits leaking.

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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i changed all those hoses thinking the same thing because they were starting to dryrot. but that didnt help. but i did find the a leak. the upper rad hose at the water neck on the head was misting only when it was hot from the bottom of the connection, so the water was evaporating before leaving a trail, i found it by accident...... i got steamed. i took the hose off and it there was black corrosion on the neck. i got a new hose and wire brush the neck clean and havent had to add any water here lately.

as far as these aftermarket coils go, i think there bad outta the box. i managed to get mine warrantied, but it started missing 5min down the road again. so i check the new one, .25ohms. so im just dealing with it untill i make it to the junkyard and pull a factory one.

NutriaforBreakfast
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Car: Nissan Maxima 1995 VQDE engine

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Ah the old expanding and contracting radiator hose andor clamp.Just fixed mine too. Added a hose clamp rather thantaking the old one off

infinitidude123
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Car: 2003 Infiniti I35

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If it has an internal water pump, it could lose water when the pump goes bad. If the pump is connected to the timing chain, it may internal. Otherwise if it is a bad head gasket, you could have water on your oil dipstick, and exhaust could be white, depending on how much water is leaking.

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well i changed the coil with a good one and i still have the mis, its not AS bad but its still there. so i went and got a knock sensor harness from the dealer and i have an extra knock sensor from my SR project, im gonna put those on this weekend and try that.

and the water leak as of now is no more, it was the upper rad hose and water neck were corroded and swollen. it was "misting" only when it was real hot, so the water would evaporate without leaving a trail or puddle.

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well after everything ive done i still have this mis: coil, knock sensor and harness, sparkplugs, cleaned MAF, and changed fuel filter which was PLUGED UP.after doing all of that work its worse now than before, figure that. now its starting to mis at idle in park and low throttle driving. STILL no codes though.

is there a way to move this thread to technical instead of me making a new one there?and monday this things got an appointment with the dealer to hookup the consult tool which i dont think is gonna find anything.thanks for all the help

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loystock
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The 'misfire' may still be with the ignition system but can also be due problem with fuel delivery, vacuum leak and MAF sensor.

A failing MAF sensor may not necessarily give a fault code (internal problem with sensor assembly - cold solder or cracked board) but can give various problems. So let's see if we could eliminate it as the problem. Disconnect the MAF sensor and start the engine (preferably in Neutral and no electrical load). This forces the ECM to use default setting. It may trigger fault code P0100 (reset required). If the 'miss' goes away, problem could be the MAF sensor. Clean the MAF connector with contact cleaner and apply dielectric grease then restore connection.

You may have contaminated fuel or failing fuel injector. When you replaced the fuel filter, did you observe the color of the fuel? A yellowish-orange color indicates corrosion in the fuel tank. Have you done a 'click' test of the injectors (use a mechanic's stethoscope or a long screw driver to check injector operation)? Check the resistance of the injectors, 10-14 ohms.

We can just assume the plugs and coils are good. So check the condition of the harness and connector then use contact cleaner to clean each coil connector followed by application of dielectric grease. A poor grounding may also affect ignition coil and injector operation. Disconnect, clean then reconnect the main engine harness ground points (2 ea. located near the intake manifold, close to cylinder #2).

You may also have vacuum leak or leaky intake manifold gasket. Use a carb cleaner and spray on those areas while engine is running and listen for engine response.

Though the CEL is off, there could be ghost codes. Get a free scan from Autozone.

Below is a copy of the 99 Maxima FSM, Engine control chapter. You can look into the diagnostic troubles codes related to you misfire problem.

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/1999/EC.pdf

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rustest86
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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ok well i did the maf test by accident when i changed the fuel filter, i forgot to plug it in. i dont recall if it still missed but when i tried reving it it just died. i dont know if thats normal on these but i do know that the ka and sr will rev to around 2.5k and thats it with the maf disconnected, not die.the fuel was clean that came out of the filter, i just couldnt blow through it at all, completely pluged up.i checked for vacuum leaks the other day couldnt find any but i did change a few lines that were dry rotted.the are no cel codes/ghost codes other than the ones i have been setting. i have been using my dads snapon scan tool. i set the p0100 and a p1320 after diconnecting coils to see if any made a difference..... all made it worse.injectors were my next thought too maybe there are 1 or 2 that are leaking down. when i cleaned the maf the mis got REALLY BAD, but after i changed the fuel filter now it close to what it was before.

oh and heres a curve ball for you, i left the 2 codes i set in the ecm because the guy at nissan said not to mess with the ecm for a few days before i bring it in...... so i had a cel light for 2 days. this morning i get in it........ no cel, and runs better than it ever has since ive owned it. figure that out. this things got the voodoo spells cast on it.

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loystock
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With the MAF disconnected, ECM enters 'limp mode' and limits RPM. As to why the car dies...I don't know. I'm assuming that the MAF sensor and KS sensor connectors have been reconnected when the CEL turned OFF (otherwise will drive me nuts). Unless you have a dirty MAF connector before, based on your latest info, the MAF sensor is on the way out with internal problem (cold solder or cracked board) . Checking the output voltage from the MAF sensor may or may not give you indication of a failure. An oscilloscope will probably give you a better result (if you have access to one and use in conjunction with FSM). You can try tapping the MAF sensor housing, close to the connector, with engine running and listen for change in engine response. You can also do the 'hot and cold test' (use hair dryer to heat it up and 'Freeze-It spray to chill it down) and see if it affects the engine performance.

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rustest86
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well i tried it again to be sure, and it did still run and still missed with the maf unpluged.and as i thought, the dealerships consult tool didnt didnt find anything outta the ordinary. but the tech said he puts money on a bad maf. wouldnt it still missing with it disconnected rule that out? i tried telling him that but it was like talking to a wall. but for hell of it i took it apart to resolder all the joints, ive done this before on a q45 maf..... easy as cake. everything looked good in there but i hit'em all anyway. ran the same after but i figured that. and the codes i set were still in there just not turning the light on anymore , the guy at nissan said thats normal after a few drive cycles, only i only drove it about 5 times since i set them and he said that wasnt enough to do that, it needed more like 15? i dunno.i guess next is to see how much vacuum its pulling and check fuel pressure.would a faulty knock sensor make it mis? the one i had extra was one of those cheapo ebay ones. it ohms out good.oh i cleaned the TB, it was gumed up pretty bad. and im thinking the iac looks about the same so i might pull it and clean it too. i figured if anything it wont hurt anything
Modified by rustest86 at 2:02 PM 3/23/2010

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well after cleaning intake and iac motor out and checking and cleaning the egr valve it still missed, so....... me being tired of jacking with this thing and spending money without resolve, brought it to a shop where a buddy of mine works. even after me ohming out the coils turns out that 2 rears were bad and a front was going out. i just ordered a complete set brand new japanese made 2yr warranty for 160 shipped. they came in today so i get to drive without a mis today . and i found out that no scan tool will show misfires on this thing, the whole bit of it being a 99 and its a inbetween year. most scan tools dont even show it as being produced at all. the consult tool even just showed basic obd2 stuff. later on this week im gonna have my dad do an "IV" on it and clean the injectors that way EVERTHING is clean or new

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loystock
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I'm glad your misfire problem has been resolved. Bad coils may be problematic as they may or may not trigger a fault code. Even the fault code may be generic - P1320.

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rustest86
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well........ this morning it set a light, guess what it is?????? P1320. im not doubting i may have gotten a bad coil in the bunch but this thing has never ran as smooth as it does now. mitchell ondemand says that code has something to do with the coils or condensor. im gonna try and ohm the condensor out today to be sure. man im getting tired of this thing.
Modified by rustest86 at 9:10 PM 4/6/2010

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well 3 multimeters later i do believe i also have a bad condensor. all three showed open loop. i ordered one today $7.50 from the dealer. hopefully this fixes my problems.

johnny2396
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:11 am

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so, the new coils fixed the misfire problem, but you still got the fault code? My car is doing the exact same thing as yours was doing, by the way. so, i am very interested in what fixes it.

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rustest86
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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well i didnt have a codes when it had the mis, now that it was fixed with new coils i have a p1320 code, which is a just a broad code for an ignition system failure. but like i said the condensor was also bad, and i think that may have lead to the coil failure. its just a capacitor that stabilizes the voltage to the coils.

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loystock
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The condenser/capacitor acts more like a shock absorber. The ignition coil has primary and secondary windings. The primary winding is turned on-and-off by the ECU thru the power transistor within the coil. When power is applied, magnetic flux builds up in the coil and when power is cut off, the magnetic field collapses inducing high voltage which is used in the secondary winding to fire the spark plug. The induced voltage in the primary has to go somewhere - thus the need for condenser.

Condenser seldom fail. A short circuit will disable all the coils while an open circuit will have, the coils under stress. Over the years, I have owned numerous cars and only once did I have a condenser failure - and it's not in a Nissan/Infiniti.,


johnny2396
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:11 am

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i think your condenser might be good. i would like to know how the new one ohms out when you get it. because i tested mine, and it shows high resistance for a few seconds then open circuit, which i think is correct for a micro capacitor (the plastic has .47 stamped on it). i don't have a meter to actually measure it's tiny capacity, but it does seem to charge and hold voltage for a short amount of time.

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rustest86
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am
Car: 93 240 coupe SR20DET Greddy T518Z, Tomei 256* poncams, sti injectors, and fmi
Location: Lake Charles, LA

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been really busy lately, but no my condensor was bad. the new one reads, as you said high resistance for a couple seconds then nothing, the old one was just open loop all the time. im trying to narrow it down to a specific coil now. i put the old coils back in and no CEL, new ones in P1320 right away. at least i know whats wrong now and have to get whichever coil is bad replaced. i have had a consistant low throttle "mis" start so it should be easier since its consistant and i have codes now. :)
thanks for everyones help!!!


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