Heated driver seat issue, maybe? 06

[mikew83]

So now that it's finally cooling off here, I tried the heated seat in my car for the first time. (Purchased it in spring, so haven't had a need)

Now on every other car I've owned, even my other Nissan products, it's heating elements that warm your butt. I was more than slightly shocked when I heard the fan kick on in my seat. I thought, ok the car must circulate the warm cabin car through the seat like it does for the ventilated feature. About 10 minutes into my drive, I noticed my butt wasn't any warmer, the seat seemed colder, and when I looked down the indicator light was off on the switch. Moving it back to off and on again did nothing. Trying to turn on the ventilated feature also did nothing.

Next day, the light would come back on, and the car would cool the seat as normal. That night I tried the heater again, and same thing happened.

Anyone have any clue or experience with this before Infiniti tells me they have to replace my Bourbon seat? lol (Because we all know how that'll go)

[Larz]

I remember reading posts in here about this. For cooling purposes, you are right. The blower under the seat simply forces the cooled cabin air through the perforations. However, for heat, there is a heater element in the seat bottom and also another in the seat back. The blower motor moves air over those elements and through the perforated leather. If the seat does not get warm, perhaps there is an issue with the heater elements in your seat.
In the FSM, they are called "thermal electric device".

[mikew83]

Thanks for the reply Lars!

I read through the FSM Seating section. I thought the M actually utilized a Peltier(sp) device to both heat and cool the seat. Whereby it essentially is a cooled seated, vs. the worthless "ventilated" ones in my Lexus lol
So what I cannot figure out, is if the device does both, what is causing the heated function to shut-off, or not work, when I can use the cool feature just fine? It happened again yesterday, I pulled over and shut off the car. As soon as I turned it back on, the light on the control know would illuminate again. But would turn off after a minute or two. I'm not an engineer by any means but the FSM seemed to say (to me) that it works on different voltages to determine the amount of heating or cooling from the switch. I'm wondering if it's just a resistance problem on a relay or circuit

[The00Dustin]

A vented seat is a seat with perforation (vents). A ventilated seat is a seat with a fan to blow air through the vents. A cooled seat is a seat with additional cooling. Unfortunately, when it comes to heating, there aren't different terms that I'm aware of. Even when it comes to cooling, not every manufacturer properly uses these terms (I was in a JEEP Grand Cherokee rental not too long ago that had ventilated seats, but the controls called them "vented").

In spite of some comments to the contrary above mine, the 2006-2007 M series has a cooled (and heated) seat. I don't know about newer models, but I would expect them to as well. To be more specific, the TEC plate is a thermoelectric plate that is a type of peltier element, and it does cool and heat. A peltier element gets cold on one side and hot on the other when current is run through it. The direction of the current controls which side of the element changes temperature in which direction. Unfortunately, instead of having nice heating elements like heated seats used to all have, the heated seat is created by reversing the flow of electricity on the TEC plate (which is why the fan still runs for heating the seat). The fact that both are not working probably implies a problem with the TEC plate, which I would hope could be replaced without replacing the entire seat. It may even be possible to clean it instead of replacing it. Before trying any of that, though, does the passenger seat one work? If not, the issue could be elsewhere (for instance, a blown fuse, although blown fuses typically indicate bigger problems). For that matter, even if the passenger side does work, it wouldn't hurt to check for a blown fuse before paying anyone else to look at it.

ETA: Re-read the OP. If it works again the next day, it's obviously not a fuse. Odd that the problem only occurs with heating and not cooling. Not quite as odd that a "reboot" is necessary to "fix" it. However, given that the two modes should use the same amount of power, perhaps it's a wiring issue at the switch?

[mikew83]

Odd that the problem only occurs with heating and not cooling. Not quite as odd that a "reboot" is necessary to "fix" it. However, given that the two modes should use the same amount of power, perhaps it's a wiring issue at the switch?

Dustin, The FSM mentions something in the troubleshooting about the seats drawing ground when the ignition switch is on, or something like that, and when you turn off the car, you're essentially rebooting the system. That's my TL/DR, non-engineering take on it :P
http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/M/2006_M45-M35/se.pdf

So it's actually not surprising at all that it works every time you restart the car. The real question is; what the hell is happening in my Peltier that is causing this. Clearly my unit is still functioning to a point, so it must be something with the reverse side of the it or something... I've read from other posts on here that the M's Peltier barely makes a difference in terms of heating, but it's still a feature on the car that might come in handy seeing as I'm in Chicago, going into winter. I don't know about the rest of you, but my cooled side gets really COLD very fast, even in the dead of summer. It's a shame that the heater doesn't work the same way.

Oh, and yes! My passenger side seems to work just fine. I'm going to test it out again later and report back. But I've tried it for a few minutes and the light stays on. Seems to blow warmer air

[The00Dustin]

Odd that the problem only occurs with heating and not cooling. Not quite as odd that a "reboot" is necessary to "fix" it. However, given that the two modes should use the same amount of power, perhaps it's a wiring issue at the switch?

Dustin, The FSM mentions something in the troubleshooting about the seats drawing ground when the ignition switch is on, or something like that, and when you turn off the car, you're essentially rebooting the system. That's my TL/DR, non-engineering take on it :P
http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/M/2006_M45-M35/se.pdf

So it's actually not surprising at all that it works every time you restart the car.

You misinterpreted my post (bolded section, Not quite as odd perhaps should have read Not really odd or something to that affect), but at least you knew what I meant to tell you anyway. I figure it has good odds of being a wiring issue and suggested the switch because it's probably an easy place to start, but if it is wiring, it could obviously ultimately be anywhere. I'm not sure how easy / difficult it would be to swap the driver and passenger ones, but if it isn't wiring and you can do that, it might be worth your while.

[antzrus]

The older M's Peltier seat heating/cooling system is problematic. Below is an auxiliary DIY heater. Let us know how it works:

[steelcity]

I've had the same problem with my '07.

Cool seats work just fine. Heated seat, the light goes on for about 30 seconds and then shuts off.

[mikew83]

The older M's Peltier seat heating/cooling system is problematic. Below is an auxiliary DIY heater. Let us know how it works:

Antzrus, is that something I would install in my trunk, and run the tube under the seat, and up & out through the sunroof? I'm worried about going that route, because of snow coming in from above.

Steelcity: That's exactly what's happening with mine. Has Infiniti or another tech ever diagnosed the cause?

[steelcity]

I don't know mikew83.

There is a chance that I might have to bring my car back to the dealer to check on my TPMS. If I do, I will bring that up to them. Winter isn't too far away.

[Larz]

The older M's Peltier seat heating/cooling system is problematic. Below is an auxiliary DIY heater. Let us know how it works:

LMAO That reminds me of the time Jeremy Clarkson installed an actual fireplace in a Mercedes S class with a chimney that came out through the trunk. Only drawback was the stone flooring and fireplace added so much weight the car could barley move.

[Markc]

System Description INFOID:0000000002956504
The climate controlled seat system is controlled by climate controlled seat control unit.
Heating and cooling are possible for a thermal electric device (heat conversion machine).
NOTE:
• The climate controlled seat system is downed when the temperature sensor set as the seat cushion and the
seat back's thermal electric device machine detects 20 °C (68 °F)or more of mutual differences of temperature.
• In this case, by turning off ignition switch, system down is canceled and it can be reused by turning on ignition
switch again.
• The climate controlled seat blower keep low speed for approximately 60 seconds after turning the climate
controlled seat switch.
CAUTION:
• The thermal electric device has the character in which, as for an opposite side. one side becomes
high temperature at the time of low temperature.
• At the time of work, please turn OFF a switch, and carry it out after checking that the thermal electric
device has got cold.
Power is at all times supplied

That is from the 08 FSM, but kind of describes the situation, (although I believe something has been lost in translation).

[mikew83]

Thanks Markc, when I read this a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't quite figure out what it means.

68 degree variance where? From the outside of the vehicle and the seat? The seat back and cushion are 68f apart? So the fact that it's 42f outside, means that somehow the car thinks my seat is 110f?!

That's what I don't get, and it doesn't seem to be to clear (at least to me.) Anyone have a clue?

[The00Dustin]

The variance would be from the side of the plate that gets hot to the side of the plate that gets cold. The fan blows across both sides to keep the plate functioning. I believe I previously suggested the plate could be dirty. It would make sense for the air going through the seat to move slower and leave more dust on the plate (or to go across the top of the plate where dust could settle). In either case, this might explain why the problems typically start with heating, as the heating side probably needs more airflow in order to maintain the differential.

[Markc]

That seems logical. OP states he hears the seat fan which may be an indication of a restriction. Strange that it works in cooling though. Almost sounds like the "magic plate" is faulty.
I cannot hear my seat fan and it heats the seat quickly.

[mikew83]

The variance would be from the side of the plate that gets hot to the side of the plate that gets cold. The fan blows across both sides to keep the plate functioning. I believe I previously suggested the plate could be dirty. It would make sense for the air going through the seat to move slower and leave more dust on the plate (or to go across the top of the plate where dust could settle). In either case, this might explain why the problems typically start with heating, as the heating side probably needs more airflow in order to maintain the differential.

Thanks Dustin, that makes a lot of sense. Still not a cheap fix, I'm sure! lol Nothing is with this damn car. And to think I got sold my Audi A8, thinking going back to Infiniti would be cheaper... Silly me

Markc,
Even with my passenger seat that works, I still hear the fan slightly. From what I've read, the seat uses fan to circulate the warm air through the seat, much like it does the cool air. I very well could be wrong, but I vaguely remember reading that.

[Markc]

You are correct. There is a dedicated fan to deliver both warm and cool air through each of the seats. I'm just surprised that you can here it/them. Perhaps if I turned off the radio and listened for them I could hear mine as well.

[mikew83]

I was getting nostalgic for my M tonight, so I thought I would update this thread.
As it turns out, the plate in the Peltier unit went bad. It would cool, but wouldn't heat. By the time it got to the dealer, the light wouldn't even stay on more than 3 seconds. The crappy thing is, they needed to replace the entire unit, and It was going to be over $1200 just to fix that. I couldn't justify spending over 2-3k just to fix silly interior things like my rear sunshade and the seat. With Winter looming on the horizon as well, I ended up trading my M in for a brand new Lexus NX. It killed me to do, seeing as that car had everything I wanted, the rare bourbon interior, rear entertainment, premium package, etc. but it was quickly turning into a $$$ trap. The nice part, was that I was able to get top dollar, and they were thoroughly impressed they couldn't even try to hold back on my trade seeing as it was physically and mechanically pretty pristine. (I suspect they didn't turn the seat on, or try the shade at night lol)

I just wanted to thank you guys for all the help you've given me with her on here. We still have the Q45 sitting around (with issues now popping up) so I'll still be lurking around on here from time to time.

[BlackCat81]

There is a climate controlled seat module under the seat. 90% of the time there's an issue with the climate controlled seats, that's the culprit. They are interchangeable from drivers to passenger side, well enough so for diagnosis purposes, so it's easy enough to pull the 14mm seat bolts out, lean the seat back and swap modules and see it fixes it. They run for about $275 if my memory serves me right.