I mentioned in another thread that I checked into the fuel injectors for a '96 Q at O'Reilly Auto Parts, and it didn't appear to be OEM. No Nissan markings, and the plasic top seemed to be more of a deep purple vs. the lighter lavender shade that I have become accustomed to on Nissan OEM injectors.

Well, I finally contacted the manufacturer, BWD automotive, and they stated that their injectors are being produced now - in a facility in Greenville, SC. I contacted that facility, Standard Auto Products, and talked to someone there... an engineer maybe?

In any case he told me that they have been producing the injectors since 2007 in Greenville, and that they have been tested and found to be compatible with E85. Of course, he told me that the rest of the fuel system wasn't compatible - but that the issues that we're having with E10 should not be a problem with their injectors.

BWD automotive mentioned that their injectors before 2007 were produced somewhere in China, so I asked the engineer how I could recognize the newer ones that were made here in South Carolina. He stated that there should be a laser etched marking on the connector starting with "RIN 1xxx" with the xxx being some other numbers that is their internal part number.

Although I hesitate to go with anything aftermarket on the Q - my understanding is that the dealership parts are just new-old-stock. With reports that dealer-replaced injectors are failing again in a year or two - I really see an aftermarket option as appealing! I'm trying to reach Joe to see if Nissan is addressing the issue, but my guess is that they would be happier to see our 12-18 year old cars die than to source a newly manufactured injector.

So... what do you guys think?

Heath

Oh, as an iteresting side note, the BWD Automotive injectors sell for about Joe's price in the 90-93 style, showing at $162.00 on O'Reilly's web site, but are cheaper in the 94-96 design... showing at about $114 on the web sites. I was told by a counter rep. at Advance Auto that I could get the 94-96 style for $101.88ea, or maybe less if I ordered all 8. So the price difference might make finding a used set of 94-96 rails and a new subharness worthwhile.

Heath

Q451990 wrote:I'm trying to reach Joe to see if Nissan is addressing the issue, but my guess is that they would be happier to see our 12-18 year old cars die than to source a newly manufactured injector.

So... what do you guys think?

Heath

Yep, Nissan would prefer us to all get in line for a new Infiniti and get rid of our overengineered warriors.

thats interesting.. I guess someone is gonna have to pony up and see how they work. Do they have a regular 12/12 warranty?

elwesso wrote:thats interesting.. I guess someone is gonna have to pony up and see how they work.

I thought the NICO moderators got a large monthly stipend to buy these kinds of things?

You're right Wes one of us is going to have to buy one and try it. It would be nice to send it in to DeatschWerks for flow testing and comparison to OEM. Dave Deatsch is a member so an email might get a response in this thread.

elwesso wrote:Do they have a regular 12/12 warranty?

I think so... one person at O'Reilly mentioned a lifetime warranty, but their web site doesn't reflect that.

goody94q45 wrote:It would be nice to send it in to DeatschWerks for flow testing and comparison to OEM. Dave Deatsch is a member so an email might get a response in this thread.

I would love to see their testing. The aftermarket ones come in three different styles that correspond to the color dots on the OEM injectors, so I suspect they have made an attempt to flow match them at the factory as well.

Heath

Im sending david an email as we speak.

Thanks Wes!

Just tossing something out there about the flow matching on the injectors with the different color dots. My thought has always been that it is just too difficult or expensive to manufacture injectors with exactly the same flow pattern - so they test them at the factory and divide them up into three groups depending on their spray pattern and maybe some other characteristics. Each group gets it's own color code, and they make sure that they install all 8 injectors with the same color code on any given engine?

In other words, the color code is just for matching the injectors with each other... not for tuning the injectors to an individual engine. Is that everyone's understanding of it?

If my theory holds, then if you're replacing a full set of injectors, or even a full rail (since the ECU adjusts each bank of injectors a batch for pulse width based on feedback from the O2 sensor) then you should be fine.

Heath
Modified by Q451990 at 12:20 PM 6/26/2008

Thanks for a very informative thread. I could be up for these soon as I'm still running OEM injectors.

Production injectors are flow matched between +- 3% at 43.4 psi.

On an early Q perfection at idle would require a better narrower tolerance especially since idle was 34 psi and a miniscule drop of fuel at such a low open time.

At cruise 15 pounds of gas per hour or idle less than 5 pounds per hour of fuel or something like 600 milligrams per second.

A gallon of gasoline weights something like 6.2 pounds so idle consumes about 0.8 gallons without ac or lights or extra alternator drain.

Injectors would need to be flow tested at idle PARAMETERS to assure a reasonable power balance and idle emissions.............the standard method would tell you little of use if idle was important same with cruise where pressure is also 34 psi.

600mg per second at 650 rpm means 650/60 or 10.8 revs per second x 4 injections per rev or 43.3 injections to squirt 600 mg of gasoline. So each injector squirt is < 14 mg.....................way smaller than a tiny drop

An average rain drop weights 84 milligrams or 6 x heavier than an idle squirt.

Isn't science fun

Obviously you must correct for surface tension between water and gasoline and the psi pressure to escape vs just gravity acting on a falling rain drop.

goody94q45 wrote:It would be nice to send it in to DeatschWerks for flow testing and comparison to OEM. Dave Deatsch is a member so an email might get a response in this thread.

Wes emailed me about this thread and asked me to make a post. Wish I had the time to get on here more often. Anyways, I'd be willing to test a set of these new aftermarket injectors if somebody buys them. I would like to test not only flowrates but also coil response and spray pattern. My experience with "OEM equivalent" injectors is that they are not equivalent to OEM. But I'm not afraid to be proven wrong.

Let me know when you are ready and I'll get it set up so there won't be any charge.

thanks,

David Deatsch

Heath, it sounds like you're in there with the parts guys, you want to see if they'd let you buy one and then return it after we let david mess around with it?

I'd do it but it sounds like you have the hard part taken care of!!

Possibly, but would not explain different color dot specification by year. I think you would still want to use the same spray pattern on each bank. The only time I had a problem with different color injectors was when I put some different color BWD injectors on one side and some OEM on the other side without first testing them.

Q451990 wrote:Thanks Wes!

Just tossing something out there about the flow matching on the injectors with the different color dots. My thought has always been that it is just too difficult or expensive to manufacture injectors with exactly the same flow pattern - so they test them at the factory and divide them up into three groups depending on their spray pattern and maybe some other characteristics. Each group gets it's own color code, and they make sure that they install all 8 injectors with the same color code on any given engine?

In other words, the color code is just for matching the injectors with each other... not for tuning the injectors to an individual engine. Is that everyone's understanding of it?

If my theory holds, then if you're replacing a full set of injectors, or even a full rail (since the ECU adjusts each bank of injectors a batch for pulse width based on feedback from the O2 sensor) then you should be fine.

Heath

Modified by Q451990 at 12:20 PM 6/26/2008

And people cannot understand why I replaced 1, 3, 5, and 7 when only 1 and 3 were bad and the other 2 read perfect on resistance.

All about at least same side balance as at least the bank can be trimmed by ecu.

Q45denver wrote:Possibly, but would not explain different color dot specification by year. I think you would still want to use the same spray pattern on each bank. The only time I had a problem with different color injectors was when I put some different color BWD injectors on one side and some OEM on the other side without first testing them.

So you have used the BWD injectors? How did they hold up?

Heath

elwesso wrote:Heath, it sounds like you're in there with the parts guys, you want to see if they'd let you buy one and then return it after we let david mess around with it?

Well, that's the thing... my understanding is that the Standard Motor Products facility in Greenville produces the injectors, but doesn't sell them - at least at retail. They are contracted to make them for BWD and Niehoff and they are sold at places like O'Reilly and Advance Auto. I can check with the local stores, but I have some serious doubts about them agreeing with my sending a set of 8 off for independent testing with the caveat that I can return them if they don't meet OEM performance. My guess is that their warranty only covers replacement if they don't work.

I'll see what I can do... and thank you David for your generous offer to test them!

Heath
Modified by Q451990 at 12:21 AM 6/27/2008

Q451990 wrote:
So you have used the BWD injectors? How did they hold up?

Heath

I'm not sure who made them but they came in a BWD box from NAPA I think. I could not get the car to run right with them so I returned them and installed OEM. Would be interested to know who else makes aftermarket injectors as the ones I've seen all had either the Nissan or JECS stamp.

Q451990 wrote:
Well, that's the thing... my understanding is that the Standard Motor Products facility in Greenville produces the injectors, but doesn't sell them - at least at retail. They are contracted to make them for BWD and Niehoff and they are sold at places like O'Reilly and Advance Auto. I can check with the local stores, but I have some serious doubts about them agreeing with my sending a set of 8 off for independent testing with the caveat that I can return them if they don't meet OEM performance. My guess is that their warranty only covers replacement if they don't work.

I'll see what I can do... and thank you David for your generous offer to test them!

Heath

I think BWD is owned by Standard Motors. I returned the injectors I bought from NAPA directly to BWD and they refunded my purchase price which was pretty nice. Why don't you call BWD, maybe they will send you a test set.

Someone of this site's sr. management/ expert poster's should contact the distributor for two or thee comp'ed sets (8 each) and in return give them a banner for a year (or something like that.

Peter

That may not be a bad idea... The only thing is it might be conflicting interests to Deatsch, since they sell injectors too.. I dont know how they would feel about that...

Or Deatschwerks may start handling them.

Q45denver wrote:I'm not sure who made them but they came in a BWD box from NAPA I think. I could not get the car to run right with them so I returned them and installed OEM. Would be interested to know who else makes aftermarket injectors as the ones I've seen all had either the Nissan or JECS stamp.

Do you remember when you purchased yours? The BWD person that I talked to said that they were made in China prior to sometime in 2007. Then they changed production to the Standard plant in Greenville, SC last year.

Heath

I like the idea of the comp'ed set for testing, but my concern is that they could hand pick a batch of their best. Getting a batch at a local parts store would be at least a little bit of a random sample. I'll do some checking as soon as possible with the managers of the local parts places to see if they are returnable if I don't get a set that performs to OEM specs. as tested by D.W.

Heath

Q451990 wrote:
Do you remember when you purchased yours? The BWD person that I talked to said that they were made in China prior to sometime in 2007. Then they changed production to the Standard plant in Greenville, SC last year.

Heath

This was a couple of years ago. They were phase ones with the Nissan seal. Perhaps they were factory seconds that BWD repackaged?

Anything ever come of this?

I checked with Joe... not surprisingly, there's nothing new coming from Nissan, "phase II" rails are readily available, and the wiring subharness is expensive as hell! Over $200 for the phase II one and under $80 for the phase I style... I guess the connectors are made of gold on the newer style.

Anyway, I will probably move forward with checking on the return policy on the BWD injectors from the local auto parts stores... I'll see if I can do it tomorrow or Friday.

Heath

Alright... I checked at my local Advance Auto store today, and they're "between managers" - but the crabby old guy that had been there the longest said they wouldn't take them back after they have been tested. He said they're not guaranteed to perform as OEM, since they're aftermarket.

The original person I talked to quietly took my card and said that she would have the "acting manager" call me when she got back from lunch. I can also get them at the other parts places, but Advance had the best price I think. If none of them will agree to take them back if they don't test to OEM specs. I will call BWD again and see if they will stand behind them after independent testing.

So anyhow, I'm working on it... I'll keep everyone posted here in this thread.

Heath

Q451990 wrote:Alright... I checked at my local Advance Auto store today, and they're "between managers" - but the crabby old guy that had been there the longest said they wouldn't take them back after they have been tested. He said they're not guaranteed to perform as OEM, since they're aftermarket.

That is understandable that they wouldn't take it back.

This is really something cool you're doing for everyone. Thanks.